PSA-Nadir vs Testosterone-Nadir compa... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

22,397 members28,160 posts

PSA-Nadir vs Testosterone-Nadir comparing Non-CRPC to CRPX men

janebob99 profile image
4 Replies

These plots show the linear relationship between median PSA-Nadir and median Testosterone-Nadir, pointing towards the Origin (i.e., 0 PSA-Nadir at 0 T-Nadir.). N= 38 men. The upper to graphs compare median PSA-nadir and median T-Nadir for Non-CRPC and CPRC groups (CPRC = Castrate Resistant Prostate Cancer).

Non-CRPC men have roughly about 1/2 the median PSA-Nadir and 1/2 the median T-nadir values compared to CRPC men, which makes sense because non-CRPC men are still hormone sensitive to ADT and, hence, have lower amounts of prostate cancer in their bodies.

oamjms.eu/index.php/mjms/ar...

Written by
janebob99 profile image
janebob99
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Read more about...
4 Replies
KocoPr profile image
KocoPr

So am I reading between the lines correctly when I see HSPC going towards Castrate Resistance at around T=24 and PSA=>2 ?

janebob99 profile image
janebob99 in reply toKocoPr

I'm not sure I understand your question completely...

These are two different groups (populations) of men with PCa. Some have HSPC and some have CRPC. Each group has their own individual median values of PSA-nadir and T-nadir. The point of the plot is that the data points from the two different groups lie on a straight line that goes through the origin at (0,0) [or, close to it]. I'm always looking for straight lines in data plots, to indicate a linear relationship.

But, yes, I think I see your point. As you move from initially being Hormone Sensitive to Castrate Resistant, the median values of PSA increases. That make sense because men that have CRPC generally have more cancer in their body, which makes more PSA , on average.

The plot also says that as you reduce the testosterone level in your body, that the PSA level will drop proportionately. That's the basis of doing ADT in the linear regime below about T = 150 ng/dL. Ideally, you want to try to get your testosterone < 5 ng/dL, at which point the PSA will be < 0.5 ng/mL. That may require a combination of drugs to get that low, however.

KocoPr profile image
KocoPr in reply tojanebob99

Thats where AR inhibitors come in handy.

I wonder if estrogen as an ADT and darolutamide would work?

janebob99 profile image
janebob99 in reply toKocoPr

Good idea.

As best as I understand it, Lupron and Estrogen are interchangeable. They both have the exact same mechanism of action (suppression of LH and FSH causing low testosterone). SO, adding darolutamide to Estrogen should give similar results to darolutamide + Lupron ADT.

I don't think there are any trials or studies that cover your idea, however.

Not what you're looking for?

You may also like...

Nadir PSA & time to nadir during initial ADT - & prognosis

New study below. Adding to the evidence that a slower response to ADT is better. "We reviewed the...
pjoshea13 profile image

Time to PSA Nadir ... following Radiation and Androgen Deprivation Therapy.

New study below. A number of studies have examined the prognostic value of the 'time to PSA......
pjoshea13 profile image

Docetaxel & PSA time to nadir.

New study below [1]. Here is another of those studies that associate a longer time to lowest PSA...
pjoshea13 profile image

PSA time to nadir as a prognostic factor of first-line docetaxel treatment in CRPC

New Chinese study below [1]. It's tempting to think of a short time to PSA nadir (lowest point) as...
pjoshea13 profile image

Rapidly decreasing level of PSA during ADT is a risk factor for early progression to CRPC.

New study - odd finding? "... a velocity of PSA decline >11 ng/mL per month (HR 2.124 ...), and a...
pjoshea13 profile image

Moderation team

Bethishere profile image
BethishereAdministrator
Number6 profile image
Number6Administrator
Darryl profile image
DarrylPartner

Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.

Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.