Discontinue all antioxidant supplements on early signs of biochemical recurrence?

[jazj]

The latest literature appears to indicate a PSA as low as 0.03, regardless of the multi-result dynamics is a reliable very early confirmation of biochemical recurrence. Maybe it's arguable some rare cases may "slip through" and stabilize without further treatment but data from the latest studies is fairly strong. Even if 0.03 was questionable, for the purpose of this discussion lets assume the reliable threshold has been met however you want to define it (0.05, 0.1, two rising results over 6 months >= 0.04, whatever.)

What are people's opinions on whether it is wise or not to discontinue all supplements with antioxidant effects at that early stage versus still taking some supplements with antioxidant potential to increase doubling time? I know it's a no brainer not to take antioxidants while receiving radiotherapy. But what about when you are at the stage of very very early recurrence prior to salvage RT?

For example, in a nutshell, if you have strong confirmation of biochemical recurrence, is that when you switch from taking 3 mg Melatonin to 20-30mg or do you think it's best to not take BOTH antioxidants AND pro-oxidants at that early stage?

[jazj]

Note this study says men "without a history of the disease"

journals.plos.org/plosone/a...

[tn12 in reply to jazj]

So...can you provide links to any studies for those with a history of the disease?

[jazj in reply to tn12]

I found this one just now. It appears to indicate that early in disease progression antioxidants are beneficial.

" Serum PSA levels were significantly higher (p < 0.0001) in high-risk subjects, whereas GST (p < 0.0001) and GSH (p < 0.002) were higher in healthy controls.... These results indicate a significant role of oxidative damage in prostate carcinogenesis, particularly during the early stages of development. In conclusion, our data support the importance of antioxidant defense as a valuable diagnostic and/or prognostic marker in prostate cancer."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

But, I think several people in this forum with advanced stage are taking mega doses of melatonin for its pro-oxidant mechanism at those dosage levels. But initial biochemical recurrence is a far earlier stage then where these people are at I think,

[tn12 in reply to jazj]

Thanks for taking the time to research. I'll have a look. I've been giving him antioxidants since diagnosis and still 0.02 after 2 years post RP T3b without any other intervention

[JohnInTheMiddle]

Why would one want to take antioxidants? There is "some" evidence that the body uses antioxidants to destroy undesirable things in the body - like cancer cells!

[Gearhead in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

For example, because the trial-proven AREDS formula, which includes antioxidants, delays macular degeneration progression. So if you are slowly dying of PCa and slowly going blind from MD, you have a tough choice.

[jazj in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

It's not that simple.

"However, many natural compounds such as natural antioxidants display opposing properties in cancer cells, depending on their concentration (Figure 2). Some recent studies imply that much of late-stage cancer’s incurability may be due to its possession of too many antioxidants [14]. Actually, antioxidants may also cause direct damage to DNA and the cell. Watson recently wrote that time has come to seriously ask whether antioxidant use predominately causes rather than prevents cancer"

intechopen.com/chapters/66504

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to jazj]

Good share! There's a lot of folk advice that floats around for decades and some of it's likely dangerous. Apricot pits showed up here recently - that was a bit of a shock.

[hot312 in reply to jazj]

SO DO I UNDERSTAND YOU PROPERLY, I'V HAD REOCURANCE SINCE 2009 AND BEEN ON LUPRON SINCE. I ALSO DRINK A SMOOTHY DRINK MOST MORNINGS MADE FROM GRAPES, BLUE BERRYS, A BANANA AND BABY SPINACH WITH GRAPE JUICE FOR LIQUID. IS THIS NOT RECOMMENDED?

[jazj in reply to hot312]

I wouldn't go that far. Eating foods rich in antioxidants is very different than taking supplements like NAC, or high-dose Vitamin C, Vitamin E, etc.