but I guess desperate times call for desperate measures… anyone tried soursop leaf tea or apricot seeds in their efforts to stop this beast of cancer? Spare me any judgement. Just curious what everyone’s thoughts are.
I know I sound like a quack… - Advanced Prostate...
I know I sound like a quack…
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antisocialsocialwrkr
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Have you done all the regular supplements that have at least some research behind them where PCa is concerned? Green tea? Walnuts for urolithins? Lycopene by pill or cooked tomato? K2 by Jarlsberg cheese or pill? Maybe low-dose Aspirin? Even vitamin C? Quercitin? Berberine? Melatonin? Exercise? ...
I'm not taking all of these! But they are at least "mainstream interesting", if not "Tall_Allen-approved".
Having just read your bio I realise the above are more useful probably before resistance. I hope you find some therapy or recipe that can help your Dad!
Sorry, I should have probably prefaced that my dad’s cancer is small cell now and we’ve tried so much. He’s in the CHAMP clinical trial at Duke but I’m always looking for anything and I guess when you’re in this position, you may try things you laughed at before! Thanks for your reply 
🌺🌻🪷🌹
well …. There has been a kinda supplement list floating around the group for several years. And numerous variations of it. At one time this list culled from the most successful guys supplement regimens , suppliments that were found in most of the successful ( longer lasting ) guys lists.
Probably most of us realize these really don’t help all that much but they give you a sense that you are doing “ something “ yourself and just maybe , one or more might contribute in a positive way , even if only a little bit. As always , please run these by your pcp or oncologist to make sure they aren’t contradictory to your meds / physiology.
There is quite a list, I take nearly 20 different ones every morning. There are many more than this, prolly a lot of guys / caregivers can contribute as well:
PectaSOL , modified peach pectin. This has a significant history here, and it’s kinda expensive . I take 6 capsules a day.
Pomi-T
60 billion probiotics
Boswella extract
Lycopene
Broccomax 35 mg , I eat 2 a day.
Saffron extract
Raw saffron threads, 16 threads
CoQ10
These are a few highlights, but are suggested ( to me by several knowledgeable guys here) . See if other people here suggest others. Some mushrooms are popular etc.
I’d stay away from the apricot seeds ( Laetrile ) , just imho. You can check these out on the web too.
❤️❤️❤️
You fail to mention ivermectin n fenben
I didn’t mention them because they aren’t on my suppliments list. Fenben ( it might have been ivermectin , forget ) has been “ done to death “ ( literally) on the group, several years ago. We’ve moved on past them, nowadays. You can search the group for the keywords and see how things went. Mostly, those of us that have been here a while remember fenben “ VERY “ sadly / heartbreaking associated with the death of a much beloved member. His name was Great_John. . It left a very bad taste in our mouths ( pun ) and broke our hearts. You can use his name for that info search.
People are mentioning “ Laetrile “ ( peach pit extraction , first used in the mid 1950s as a miracle drug ). in this thread as well. It’s interesting how time buries knowledge and people forget ….but back in the late ‘70s - early ‘80s , Laetrile was the fenben of that era and people …..mostly breast cancer ladies, swarmed all the Laetrile clinics set up in Mexican border towns. So many of them got uber violently sick and / or died that the Supreme Court , in 1980 , uphelp a challenge to the ban , banned by the federal government. And yet today there are still clinics in the USA and Mexico offering Laetrile related treatments. Google “ 1980 Supreme Court , federal ban on Laetrile “ for more info.
Personally, like Great _ John , I’d probably clutch at any straw …. no matter the absence of any verified positive results , when I get to his circumstances ( I’m hoping to die peacefully in my sleep, at home in my comfy bed with my loved ones before that happens ) So I’m probably not one to say much. Still the heartbreak remains in me for Great_John and my disappointment at any detectable benefit from fenben in real-time , of any kind ( except nausea ) , for all that tried it very publicly here on the group … leaves me with a strong negative view of that chemical. That’s just my thoughts and IMHO , yours may vary.
❤️🌹🌺🪷🌼
Kaliber I’m so sorry to hear about great John but as you know so many people die daily when they don’t use ivermectin and or fenben and only use the soc. So it doesn’t work on everyone but we de know adt usually only works 2️⃣ years n then the cancer ♋️ comes back stronger n more virulent than ever and studies show ivermectin can possibly return castrate resistant back to hormone sensitive. Joe Tippens had his bi annual video yesterday n there were thousands of testimonials stating they were either cured or had the cancers in remission, so the proof is in the pudding not to mention it has worked very well for me thus far not to say it won’t stop, but I’d much rather take it than the dreaded harmful chemical ADT. Most people on the podcast taking fenben and or ivm say they’ve had no reoccurrence…
You fail to mention ivermectin n fenben which seem to b very promising on Joe Tippens semi annual podcast today. Just because Ta hasn’t approved it doesn’t mean much as he’s not a Dr n as far as I know hasn’t cured anyone of cancer. Joe Tippens isn’t one either but he had a much much more severe cancer n was only givin a few weeks to live, well how did that go for him, 7 years later on fenben cbd oil n turmeric is going strong n shows no sign of the deadly cancer ♋️ he was diagnosed with. People are always asking how did that work for you, well there’s your answer…😁
Two unsubstantiated natural treatments for multiple ailments. The tea could be consumed without any harm, but check with your dad's doctors first. The apricot seeds are poisonous so Id stay away from those...there are some on the site that consume them but there's no evidence it helps except maybe psychologically. Clinical trials are your father's best chance at longevity.
They’re only poisonous if u eat to many of them, w the right dosage they’re a very effective natural chemo that doesn’t destroy the body or nowhere as harsh as chemical chemo
Ok...so where is this right dosage documented?And where is the efficacy proven when taking this documented dosage?
You’ll have to look it up yourself n should be able to find quite of bit as I’ve gone thru thousands of research article's n don’t have time at the moment, but if you can’t get back to me n I’ll try n help you find some…
You replied that if you eat them at the right dosage they are effective. I asked you what the dosage was that yields effective anti cancer effect .and your reply is ...look up yourself, there are thousands of research articles. SMH
Oh I’m sorry I misunderstood, I think I stated it earlier but I started w 3-4 Cherry pits n worked my way up to 9-10 as I read the possibly toxic dose was around 20/day. I also did plum apricot n peach pits at about 3-4/ day with no side effects at all after two months n psa would drop an average of .19 points a month. I also am on cbd oil n ivermectin but no ADT so it was hard to say if it was the pits or just all in conjunction w each other. Hope this helps…
I heard this also! We have not tried but are trying to find some now.
Apricot seeds are toxic. His body is already burdened by cancer and chemo - be careful about intake of toxic substances with no demonstrable benefit.
Tried apricot seeds but did nothing for me.
There's also deuterium depleted water I came across recently. This water has reduced deuterium (an isotope of hydrogen). If you have too many deuterium atoms it causes havoc in your mitochrondria and breaks ATP generation. But also, cell division is triggered by the deuterium/hydrogen ratio in the cell. By lowering it, it's supposed to prevent cell division.
Your mitochrondria do 2 very important things. 1. Create ATP 2. Create water.
(hydrogen from your food and oxygen from your breathing). The water they produce is DDW.
All the purchased water does is lower your deuterium in your body by flushing it out with a lower concentration. It's expensive, depending on the ppm of the water you buy. For 25 ppm water is ~$200 for 24 bottles. You mix the water with tap water to get to around 85-100 ppm for cancer.
You can also reduce your deuterium by doing a carnivore diet because vegetables/carbs are high. Meats are natuarally lower - especially the fat. Grass fed meat is also lower than grain fed. Sugar is a deuterium bomb. So much so, that as part of your citric acid cycle EVERY hydrogen on the glucose has to be replaced with 'safe' hydrogen. For fats, it doesn't have to. It does that to prevent the deuterium (which is also a hydrogen atom and can replace a normal hydrogen atom) getting into the mitochrondia and blowing up the ATP generation parts along the electron transport train. The deuterium atom is twice the size and blocks the system and destroys ATP generators.
You can also do the DDW and carnivore together for a combined effect.
If you want to explore it, the book to get is:
amazon.com/Deuterium-Deplet...
In this book it has a cancer protocol and explains how and why it works.
There's also a decent amount of research into DDW in pubmed.
Hope that helps.
The deuterium/hydrogen story is myth. They are chemically identical and all processes going on in the body are also chemical. The only way they could make any difference would be if there is a teeny nuclear reactor going on somewhere in the body. (slight exaggeration there)
Not sure why but my previous reply got deleted.Why do you think that? Please supply some evidense to validate your claim.
Deuterium is twice the size of hydrogen. It blocks the generators for ATP which are designed for hydrogen and are smaller.
They perform much stronger bonds which makes them much harder to break down. Your body requires and uses deuterium in areas of your body that require structural strength. Normal hydrogen wouldn't be able able to be strong enough for those areas.
Deuterium will fold proteins differently due to their strong bonds and render proteins useless.
Deuterium slows down biological processes.
So I'm not really sure why you believe that it will have the same effect as hydrogen.
There are various entries in pubmed. Maybe you could take a look at those. Those aren't a myth.
I think you’re saying that the # of neutrons in an atom affects the strength of chemical bonds, am I understanding you correctly? Can’t say I’ve ever heard that, but I’d be interested in understanding the mechanism. It seems to me that electrons shouldn’t really care much about neutral charges in the nucleus - this wouldn’t affect atomic size, electronegativity, ionization energy, etc. Do you have some established academic textbook that explains why? i.e. not a research paper; not a scientific article; but established science, easily found in a high school-level or college-level text, that has widespread consensus.
Why not a scientific article? I would assume that a scientific article would get that right.
Anyway, there's various texts for this:
chem.libretexts.org/Bookshe...
In summary, the greater the mass the more energy is needed to break bonds. A heavier isotope forms a stronger bond. The resulting molecule has less of a tendency to dissociate. The increase in energy needed to break the bond results in a slower reaction rate and the observed isotope effect.
The thing is with Deuterium, I believe its the isotope that actually has the most dramtic effect since it's mass is effectivley double of the normal hydrogen atom. This is because there is one proton and adding a neutron doubles the mass.
I believe that the boiling point of deuterium water is higher than the so called light water (water without deuterium) because it requires more energy to break the bonds apart. I think thats what I read.
"The greater the mass the more energy is needed to break bonds". Wrong. Bond strength has very little to do with mass. Very many heavy elements have bonds much much weaker than hydrogen.
Well, like this is stated in the chemistry reference I've supplied, it's also stated elsewhere.
This isn't me making this up.
doi: 10.3390/molecules27186023
or
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
The various bonds formed by deuterium atoms are stronger than those of hydrogen atoms; for example, deuterium hydrogen bonds are 5% stronger than hydrogen bonds [2]. Furthermore, the transfer rate of the heavier deuterium atoms is much slower than that of hydrogen atoms, which slows down the biochemical reaction of deuterium atoms, interfering with the normal metabolism of organisms.
Is that wrong as well?
How about this one?
Deuterium bonds would appear to be stronger than H bonds in complexes pairing neutral molecules. This effect is due largely to the zero-point vibrational energy associated with one of the intermolecular modes. While there are changes occurring in other intermolecular modes upon isotopic substitution, as well as in the intramolecular frequencies, these changes tend to cancel one another. The intermolecular mode of highest frequency can be characterized as a bending motion of the proton donor molecule which distorts the linearity of the H bond. The heavier mass of D imparts this mode with a higher effective mass thereby lowering its frequency and the accompanying zero-point energy. The same principle extends to the trimer of water where it is again the bending motion that takes the bridging hydron away from the H bond axis that controls the energetic difference between H and D bonds. The trend also retains its quantitative aspect: D bonds pairing water molecules are computed to be stronger than H bonds by 0.2 kcal/mol. It might be supposed that adding additional water molecules to the trimer would yield no further changes to these results. This contention is supported by recent calculations of oligomers of formamide, up to n ) where the fractionation factors were little affected by n.
It's in other references and books.
We are talking specifically about hydrogen and deuterium here. We are not discussing other heavy elements.
So maybe you could give us some evidense to why you believe this to be wrong.
Edit: Oh, sorry I forgot to include this bit from the above reference w.r.t.opening and reading DNA for transcription. Doh!
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
D2O affects hydrogen bonds; due to the rapid exchange of hydrogen and deuterium atoms, deuterium atoms are introduced into the double helix hydrogen bond structure of the DNA molecule [11]. This process affects the reading time of stored genetic information (the ratio of reading time of stored genetic information before and after hydrogen–deuterium exchange was 0.43), especially by changing the state of the genetic material (the “on” and “off” states of individual base pairs in DNA molecules) [11]. Replacing hydrogen atoms with deuterium atoms in the hydrogen bonds between the nitrogen base pairs of DNA molecules changes the frequency of the open states [12]. The frequency of open states is critical to molecular functionality, including promoting DNA–protein interactions between specific molecules during transcription, folding, and replication [12].
Read that it is tough on kidney and liver
Hi My husband and I ate a few bitter almond or apricot seeds frequently but it did not stop him getting prostate cancer. Hunza community consumes apricot seeds and lives a long life but we did not get bad effects from consuming the seeds. My husband passed away from cancer and we had tried everything - conventional and herbal. Up to a point following vegan diet helped in his health, fitness and pain profile. Once cancer reached a certain level though, nothing helped - not even chemo. It is sad but some cancers are clever beasts and find a way around anything. We can all do the best we can so that we leave no stones unturned.
I can't comment on the tea, but avoid the apricot seeds and all potions derived from them. They contain cyanide and it doesn't take much to get a toxic dose. High risk, no reward.
Noone has ever died from apricot seeds. There's a lot of people taking them. I suppose if you have a 200 hundred of them in one sitting, maybe you'll get an issue.
There is cyanide in fermented kefir.
Noone has died from that either.
There is arsenic in most rice. Arsenic can kill you. Should you stop eating rice?
If you take pure oxygen cam kill you. Should you stop breathing?
Too much water can kill you? Should you stop drinking it?
The list goes on.
You can't just point to something in isolation like that.
Wellll...not true. People HAVE died from apricot kernels. google.com/search?q=has+any...
Well first of all, don't feed apricot kernels to children.
Secondly, out of the two people who have died, what were the conditions? Did they eat 100 kernels or whatever.
But in the interests of world peace and not wanting to spark some kind inflow of arguments, lets assume they did die by taking 1 kernel. Contrast those deaths to all the deaths resulting from the SOC treatments of chemo, adt, asparin, statins and all the other treatments/drugs we all love.
Alternatively, contrast that to the 90 deaths or so in the USA due to lawn mowers
sierrabooster.com/latest-ne...
I suggest to you that it's not even comparible, even if they were sensible and not taking them wrecklessly.
People also die from drinking too much water. Just saying.
My very fallible recollection is a toxic dose of about 20 kernels. Depends on your risk tolerance I suppose but more than that and you are gambling.
somewhere in the last 7 years I read about a Canadian doctor working with dandelion root tea. I don’t know if it works or not but I’m 7 years into stage 4 with bone Mets. Yes I’m also on Xtandi,Eligard and Xgeva so I can’t tell you what is working but I’m still on the right side of the grass 🙏🙏🙏
Ivermectin n fenben seem to b very effective and if your drugs stop working n allow ♋️ cells to become castrate resistant then ivm can revert them back to hormone sensitive once again…😁
Where do you get the Ivermectin and what dosage do you take? Are there any studies that support its use for PC?
I get it at all day chemists out of India, Dr at Pcri gave me the tip, takes about 3-4 weeks to arrive but they follow up on every detail and cheapest around $100 for 60/ 12 mg tabs. I started at 12-18 mg tabs 4 days on n 3 days off. now I’m on 12 mg 2 days week after 6 mo, Mon n tues only as a maintenance. w the same results, as psa continues to decline 11 months in a row.
A fellow I once worked with drank the horse linament, dimethyl sulfoxide, ever day. He claimed he was over two years past his expected death with prostate cancer. I don't know about that, but he was still kicking as an engineer with Brown and Root in Houston.
Joe Tippens is more than 7 years past his expected death from cancer, which they only gave him a few weeks to live n he attributes it to fenben cbd oil n turmeric
I have heard good things about apricot seeds. Seems to me chemo and radiation are also toxic things that still can be effective at treating Cancer. You just want to be very careful about dosage, as is true with all medicines, plant based or otherwise. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
I think the supplement with the most data specifically for prostate cancer and best results in trials is sulforaphane, specifically BROQ, which is the product used in the below study (available on Amazon). Expensive but basically stopped BCR. Have to take the trial dose since results are dose dependent. There is also a study on pomegranate juice (not PomT) below re prostate cancer.
cancerpreventionresearch.aa...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/168...
You can also try certain repurposed drugs. I had a conversation with my Uro, who also was a good friend. He said that back in the day when he went to medical school, they used anti-parasite drugs to treat cancer. Several supposed success stories with fenben. Google Joe Tippens. I used it for a few months and my PSA dropped every month. Before that, it was going up every month. Lot of info out there on that.
Research and make up your own mind. It is your life.
Thank you well said n most importantly thank you to your Dr being honest n going w what he actually thought killed the cancer ♋️
Right, I have been alternating Fenbenzadole and Ivermectin.
I use heat, magnets, and lycopene, also turmeric, paprika, jalepenos, and black pepper. I avoid beef and pork. I'm 11 years since being diagnosed stage IV.
Everything else seems futile. I have tried apricot seeds in small quantities, graviola, silymarin, cayenne pepper, hapihumol, super antioxidants, baking soda/maple syrup protocol, asparagus, gogi berries, dandelion root tea, and others.
Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops)...
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Wednesday 01/10/2024 11:28 AM EST
I made some chocolate mousse and in a graham cracker crust. It is like Mardi Gras before I start my hormone therapy on a Gleason 9, risk level 5 dude with perineural invasions.
Tasted good but the uppers in the chocolate kept me up at night. Couldn't possibly be concern for future of course. It's ice cream, mint chocolate chip from now on. "Vegetarian" of course.
Uppers in chocolate? Vegetarian? Next thing you're be touting is orca flavored gelato parmesan in a garlic flavored cone..... Yummy... (Note: Hormone therapy is really a no burger burger).
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Wednesday 01/10/2024 7:21 PM EST
I was diagnosed with PC last August of 2022 and had surgery in January 2023. I went through 38 sessions of SRT and currently on my second dose of Eligard. My neighbors, wife had leukemia ( in remission for years) and husband had PC and had surgery several years ago (no signs of PC currently) introduced me to apricot seeds. They swear by the seeds. According to them, in large quantity, they can be harmful, but in small amount they may help. They told me there is nothing to loose; even if the seeds don't help, you would gain the extra fiber in your diet. I have been taking apricot seeds since, three seeds in the morning and three seeds before dinner. I don't know whether the seeds help or not, but like you say, desperate times call for desperate measures
Sounds like some have tried apricot seeds.How did that work out for them? You're forgetting magnets and copper coils!
Sounds insane to me. 😉
on the contrar, you sound very sensible and yes I’ve tried the apricot seeds along w cherry 🍒 n peach 🍑 seeds n really like them. They have a mild dose of natural cyanide which only kill cancer cells n won’t hurt you as long as you don’t eat too many of the them, smaller ones 9-10/ day n larger like peach pits, which look just like almonds would only have 3-4/ day. It’s a far much better alternative to chemo which does kill cancer ♋️ but also a lot of your regular cells as well.( hence) the horrible side effects. Maybe start off with Seeds n then can always go to chemo if one doesn’t attain the results desired… there’s also ivermectin n fenben that have worked for thousands but they keep that hush hush. Mof Joe Tippens is doing his semi annual podcast as we speak…😁
This discourse is very different from what we usually find on this well moderated forum. This version is sort of coherent in a crazy way (hello cyanide). But I think it's more useful as grist for the anthropologist's mill than for fighting metastatic prostate cancer. Just my two cents
Thanks for everyone’s replies. Well most of them. Some of them sounded a bit arrogant and judgmental. I’ll leave you with this & forgive me in advance if this is too brutally honest for some of you:
I am well educated (graduate degree) and I do plenty of research, probably too much. Sure, I lack the wisdom that comes with age. I suppose before my 53 year old dad faced such a poor prognosis and became one of the unlucky ones to have his cancer mutate into small cell, I would have felt something like adding in an apricot kernel & drinking a poisonous tea to his treatment plan was insane. Having stage IV prostate cancer is one thing…for the majority of you, you’ll be blessed with several years thanks to SOC treatments and a slow disease progression. Not everyone faces that path. I hope you never feel the desperation my dad and all of his family feel. When SOC treatments fail, desperation takes over for some of us. My mom even asked the doctor if she or I could give my dad parts of our healthy livers to assist his tumor ridden liver. Intellectually, does that sound ridiculous? Sure, but I’d jump off a bridge or eat cow manure if I was told it might give my dad extra time. Whether you feel it could be beneficial or toxic, I do appreciate the majority of you who gave me your input/opinions in a constructive way!
Liver transplant? As with my dad, who also suffered from this disease, I'd have suggested the same if it was a liver issue. He'd have refused 1000%. The liver is the only organ that can fully regenerate itself. People have actually done that in the past. I don't see it as crazy in the slightest. To me EVERYTHING is on the table. With this site, I think you've got to take the view that people are under incredible stresses. They have tried things that haven't worked for them, including SOC for some.
Conversations can get a bit spicy. Some quote.'follow the science' and don't follow the science. Some just like a bit of a ruckus.
You've got to look past all that. I do think that the majority have good intentions, but some are old and set in their ways. Frustrating to say the least, but maybe one day they'll wake up and realize you're trying your best to help people. You shouldn't let these comments discourage you. Helping one person is a good enough reason to do it.
Whatever dispels those cells..........
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Wednesday 01/10/2024 7:31 PM EST
Why would you worry about being called a quack? Whatever you want to do to help with your disease, go for it. I did Apricot seeds for a while, IDK when or why I quit. Probably when I did chemo, for which memory kind of floats away.
much more sensible than taking injections of bleach to fight viruses so no, you’re not a quack. in your research you’ll probably find quantitative values to suggest you could very well be on to something.
I don't think people actually do anything with bleach. Do you mean chlorine dioxide?.. .maybe..
I’m afraid this one went over your head or just poor taste on my part 🤪.
You don’t sound like a quack. My husband is 56, stage IV in 2022. We eat healthy and he exercised almost every day of his life before the diagnosis. He started hormone therapy. Unfortunately, at diagnosis there was a large number of lymph node involvement that didn’t allow for radiation outside the prostate. On hormone therapy his PSA went from 979 to .01. He underwent SBRT just to the prostate. When he started SBRT the PSA began to rise and continued to do so. We were told it was a radiation bump. He completed Provenge but PSA continued going up. And now, his PSA is around 30 and his latest scan showed a bone lesion and chemotherapy has been recommended and will start soon.
That’s a lot but here’s why…a friend of ours recommended soursop tea for its “anti-cancer” benefits after reaching and staying in remission. Of course, there’s no way to know whether the tea did it. Nevertheless, we started drinking organic soursop tea regularly last month. The Sloan-Kettering website warns it can cause low blood pressure and low blood sugar. It also mentions it could hinder scans in imaging. Now, if it can do that, who’s to say it can’t fight cancer?
We don’t know whether the tea will help but according to his MO it won’t hurt. As far as I’m concerned, all of the treatments are a stab in the dark that’s just buying time until there’s a cure for metastatic prostate cancer.
So, if the doctor says it’s okay, get the tea and keep the faith.
Nfler• in reply to
You may want to look into cbd and or Rick Simpson oil as it’s been noted to b very effective in killing pca also ivermectin n fenben has also helped thousands maybe millions in fighting this disease 🦠 according to Joe Tippens web cast yesterday. Good luck on all regiments…
• in reply toNfler
Thank you.
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