Antioxidants can help cancerous tumors grow new blood vessels, which helps the cancer to grow and spread.

[cesanon]

They didn't expressly refer to prostate cancer. But this is an issue that has been on my mind for a while.

Antioxidants can help cancerous tumors grow new blood vessels, which helps the cancer to grow and spread.

Https://m.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/article-757233

While many people may take vitamins like Vitamin C and E to improve their health, there may be some dangers in doing so, according to a new study published on August 31.

The peer-reviewed study, published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation, found that the vitamins can stimulate the growth of new blood vessels within cancer cells. These new vessels can aid the cancer in growing and spreading across the body.

“We’ve found that antioxidants activate a mechanism that causes cancer tumors to form new blood vessels, which is surprising since it was previously thought that antioxidants have a protective effect,” said author Martin Bergö to New Atlas. “The new blood vessels nourish the tumors and can help them grow and spread.”

Antioxidants stimulate BACH1-dependent tumor angiogenesis

Ting Wang1, Yongqiang Dong2, Zhiqiang Huang1, Guoqing Zhang3, Ying Zhao4,5,

Haidong Yao1, Jianjiang Hu1, Elin Tüksammel1, Huan Cai6, Ning Liang1,7, Xiufeng

Xu1, Xijie Yang1, Sarah Schmidt1, Xi Qiao1, Susanne Schlisio8, Staffan

Strömblad1, Hong Qian6, Changtao Jiang9,10, Eckardt Treuter1, and Martin O.

Bergo1,*

1 Department of Biosciences and Nutrition, Karolinska Institutet, SE-141 83 Huddinge,

Sweden

2 Department of General Surgery, The First Affiliated Hospital of Zhengzhou

University, Zhengzhou 450 052, China

3 Department of Thoracic Surgery, The First Affiliated Hospital of Zhengzhou

University, Zhengzhou 450 052, China

4 Department of Laboratory Medicine, Karolinska Institutet, SE-171 77 Huddinge,

Sweden

5 Translational Research Center and Center of Allogeneic Stem Cell Transplantation

(CAST), Karolinska University Hospital Huddinge, SE-141 86, Stockholm, Sweden

6 Center for Hematology and Regenerative Medicine, Department of Medicine

Huddinge, Karolinska University Hospital, SE-141 86, Huddinge, Sweden

7 BGI-Shenzhen, Shenzhen 518 083, China

8 Department of Oncology-Pathology, Karolinska Institutet, SE-171 64 Solna, Sweden

9 Department of Physiology and Pathophysiology, School of Basic Medical Sciences,

Key Laboratory of Molecular Cardiovascular Science, Ministry of Education, Peking

University, Beijing 100 191, China

10 Center of Basic Medical Research, Institute of Medical Innovation and Research,

Peking University Third Hospital, Beijing 100 191, China.

* Correspondence: Martin O. Bergo, Professor; Dept. of Biosciences and nutrition,

Karolinska Institutet, SE-141 83 Huddinge, Sweden; [phone];

[e-mail]

The authors have declared that no confl

[dhccpa]

Hasn't Jane McLelland talked about this here and there?

[Kuanyin]

Think of a seesaw that only balances when there are equal weights at either end. There may be a vitamin "seesaw" with a pro-oxidant end and an anti-oxidant one. The healthy body generally knows how to maintain this homeostasis.

This is what our friend Bard has to say on the issue.

There is some evidence that antioxidants can stimulate the spread of existing cancers. Antioxidants are substances that can prevent or delay cell damage caused by free radicals. Free radicals are unstable molecules that can damage cells. However, some studies have shown that antioxidants can also damage cells and make them more likely to spread.

I personally would never mess with glutathione

For example, one study found that mice with tumors that were treated with glutathione were more likely to have their tumors spread than mice that were not treated with glutathione. Another study found that glutathione could increase the migration of cancer cells in a petri dish. However, other studies have shown that glutathione can also help to prevent cancer. For example, one study found that people who took glutathione supplements were less likely to develop cancer than people who did not take supplements. More research is needed to determine the effects of glutathione on cancer. It is possible that glutathione can have both beneficial and harmful effects on cancer, depending on the type of cancer and the way it is used.

However, other studies have shown that antioxidants can also help to prevent cancer. For example, one study found that people who took antioxidant supplements were less likely to develop cancer than people who did not take supplements

More research is needed to determine the effects of antioxidants on cancer. It is possible that antioxidants can have both beneficial and harmful effects on cancer, depending on the type of antioxidant and the way it is used.

[j-o-h-n]

comme ci comme ça.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 09/03/2023 2:32 PM DST

[Gearhead]

If, like me, you have beginning macular degeneration, the NIH and most ophthalmologists recommend that you take antioxidant-containing AREDS 2 supplements, which trials have shown to slow progression in many cases. And if, like me, you have mPCa, studies such as the one above suggest that antioxidants can help cancer grow and spread. So, waddya gonna do?

[cesanon in reply to Gearhead]

Yes. That's the nub of the problem.

[Explorer08 in reply to Gearhead]

My urologist and my retinal/vitreo specialist both recommended that I stop AREDS2 supplements specifically because of the Vitamin E problem. Now, I just stick with Lutein. Vitamin E is used in a lot of antioxidant formulas as a preservative, as well.

[cesanon in reply to Explorer08]

What is the "Vitamin E problem"?

[Explorer08 in reply to cesanon]

Vitamin E does not cause prostate cancer but it can exacerbate existing prostate cancer.

[dixiedad in reply to Gearhead]

Check out Eye Science's Macular Formula. Supposed to be more powerful than just A-REDS.

basicbrandsinc.com/products...

I save a few bucks with the subscription.

[Gearhead in reply to dixiedad]

I note that for the vitamins described in your link, the recommended 2 capsules/day contain 1787% DV vitamin E. For Presser Vision (common brand in drug stores) AREDS 2, the recommended 2 capsules/day contain 1200% DV Vitamin E. So you save a few bucks but you still get the antioxidants.

[Captain_Dave]

Do you drink coffee? Coffee has a lot of antioxicants.

[cesanon in reply to Captain_Dave]

That argument is sort of putting the cart before the horse if you think about it. I would encourage you to talk to a close family member to investigate if that is how you are making other health decisions.

For example, it doesn't cost a lot of time or money to get on a plane and travel to a medical center of excellence to get a second opinion. Yet many people think it is too much of a bother and too expensive.

Yet they have no problem spending more money on a plumber.

Or more time traveling on a vacation.

Or, in our shared demographic, a huge statistical preference for voting for political candidates who want to permanently destroy the institution of democracy. Using the voting franchise to put in office people who want to end the franchise of voting.

Do you see the problem with the logic?

[Captain_Dave in reply to cesanon]

it certainly wasn't meant to be an argument

[cesanon in reply to Captain_Dave]

It's just a recurring form of logic I see that afflicts a lot of health care decision making.

Not just prostate cancer.

[rocket09]

Not my cup of green tea.

[cesanon in reply to rocket09]

LolWhat's that mean?

[rocket09 in reply to cesanon]

Just a haha because tea is antioxidant. Not that funny.

[RMontana]

Interesting...with Vitamins its always 'Wacka-Mole.' You get one benefit against Lord knows what...

Tried to make heads or tails of the study; really technical stuff. What I could see was;

1. Mostly tied to lung cancer (some mention of kidney and breast cancer noted)

2. No human trials that I could see; the results I could ready were all based on petri dish outcomes, mostly 7 day, observations

3. Study is specifically directed at impacts of VIT's on genes...

Dont know...I have taken vitamins for years. Supplements as well. I posted a few human trials showing their benefits. This article notwithstanding, I will choose to continue to take them. I need to see these results replicated in human trials with good power (i.e. a good sample) and low 'p' values (P.S. the study noted here has very good p values but again, its all petri dish or animal trials and these dont guarantee the same results once human trails are run).

BUT good to know this stuff...Rick

[cesanon in reply to RMontana]

Good analysis.

The problem is that there is not economic incentive for anyone to do good useful trials on vitamins and supplements

[carbide]

Sounds like more to worry about.😳

[Purple-Bike]

I talked some time ago with Martin Bergö of Karolinska Institute, lead author of the sttudy , who is an advocate on the perils of antioxidant supplementation for existing cancer. He travels around Sweden holding talks on it. He has a burning passion on this.I want to stress that I am on very uncertain ground in the following! - but my take is that he may well have a point as regards supplementation with strong antioxidants, like vitamins C and E, which I believe his research has focused on.

But I am more doubtful about this being the case for what I understand as less strong antioxidants like curcumin, green tea, zinc etc - a high percentage of all supps are antioxidants - which he also claims are dangerous to supplement (on .

my specific questions he mentioned the danger for at least these three to me).

To the best of my ability I then researched in particular curcumin and to a much lesser extent green tea/EGCG . The studies I found didn't show any progression of existing cancer when supplementing which contradicts what he says. They didn't show any protection either, there was no statistical effect one way or the other. So for the time being, I am continuing with intermittent curcumin (for possible non-cancer benefis) and EGCG.

When I asked him about statins, he said that although they are antioxidants, that effect is so weak that they pose no danger.

Perhaps the question is att what level of antioxidant strength that potential danger arises......

[cesanon in reply to Purple-Bike]

Thanks. So very interesting.

What do you think is a safe reasonable dose for vitamin C?

And vitamin R?

[Purple-Bike in reply to cesanon]

I would not even dare guess at any safe supplementation dose of these!I get all the vitamin C I need from all the veggies, berries and some fruit that I eat.