Us layman are confused and stressed out about all the side effects of drugs vs quality of life. In my 18 months since diagnosed with PC I have changed to plant base diet, healthy lifestyle, spirituality and stress reduction. I don’t eat processed foods, I drink purified water with no pesticides or fluoride, I lost 45 pounds of unhealthy weight, do 40-80 pushups a day, walk three miles, take long beautiful hikes in nature, dropped pants size from a 36-38 down to 30-32. At 59 years old I feel like I did in my 20’s. With a PSA drop of almost 100 points in 30 days, I have to believe that all that I did prior to the Casodex and Lupron helped the efficiency of the drugs. I still get erections and ejaculate but no semen comes out. The biggest blessing from this journey is that when I read the Bible and realize that God wants us to take care of our bodies. The Holy Spirit lives in us and He wants us to be more holy like Him. I’ve released bitterness and unforgiveness. These are the things that are healing me. My blood pressure is 127/75 from 165/95 normal cholesterol and glucose levels from both being high. If anyone thinks that taking a drug is all you have to do please study the effectiveness of mind, body and spirit. If anyone needs any help or resources, I am glad to pass on what helped me in my journey.
18 months of diet and lifestyle contr... - Advanced Prostate...
18 months of diet and lifestyle contributed to the effectiveness of Casodex and Lupron
Excellent
If you believe that something will help you, there is a 10-15% chance that it will. Better known as the Placebo effect.
Putting your intuitions above medical science is what allowed your PCa to become incurable. Your failure to seriously treat it even now will insure an earlier death than it has to be. Very sad. I'm not saying you're stupid - even Steve Jobs did this to himself.
I think you should read his message better - I’m pretty sure it says that a change of lifestyle has helped his meds work better…NOT instead of the drugs…?
Flaxseed, you are correct. If you cut out the other food that feeds cancer like sugar, animal proteins, processed foods and many other toxins, and feed your body with nutrients from all natural organically produced vegetables and fruits, you help boost your immune system to fight cancer at the root. Some people need help with conventional medicine like I did. My cancer is more aggressive. I’ll take a few drugs, but by the grace of God I don’t want to destroy my immune system with chemotherapy and radiation. The harmful effects on your immune system are irreversible and you will have to rely on them for the rest of your life.
In his previous post he wrote: "I was diagnosed with PC, March 2022. Gleason 4+5 (9). Urologist wanted to do a radical prostatectomy. I chose to change my diet, exercise and lifestyle to a plant-based detox from chemicals in my food and in my house. My PSA went from 13.7 to 100 in one year. It metastasized to my pelvic area and seminal vessel. "
healthunlocked.com/advanced....
Now, he's treating his metastatic PCa with Lupron+Casodex, instead of the standard-of-care.
I’m integrating diet and lifestyle with Lupron +Casodex. I also have a left inguinal hernia which was found by my own research, not my urologist. He was treating me for an infection. In the 10th month, I stopped drinking 32oz a day of fresh organic vegetable juice January 2023, one of the main sources of my natural protocol. It started causing severe pain in my left inguinal hernia and scrotum. Until January when I quit drinking it. In December 2022 my PSMA PET/CT showed no metastases. I realized that my urologist has not recommended a MO, which was also discovered on my own. I started seeing a hernia surgeon and a MO in May 2023 after several failed attempts to get pain relief from my urologist. Five months without my juice, the new PSMA PET/CT May 2023. I believe that’s what caused the rise in PSA and the metastasis. No one knows if you are getting the right standard of care if you completely trust your doctor unless you discover they have made mistakes. That’s what this forum is all about. Sharing experiences and learning from each other. This is not my only resource for information, but as I have mentioned in my previous posts, I belong to two cancer support groups that share what has worked for them. My goal on this forum is to learn as much as I can from and look at all options. If that’s wrong in your opinion, then you might be part of the problem. Even though I don’t agree with everything you say, doesn’t mean I can’t learn something from you.
Medical science or profit? Doctors in other specialties simply write prescriptions. But oncologists make most of their income by buying drugs wholesale and selling them to patients at a marked up prices.
"So the pressure is frankly on to make money by selling medications," says Eisenberg.
Ethicists see a potential for conflict of interest.nbcnews.com/id/wbna14944098
No Docs I've met sell medications? Do you mean that some Docs MAY own stock in drug companies ???
My insurance paid for my Casodex and Lupron but doctors are allowed to profit from prescribing them according to several articles I’ve read. I posted a link in my post that you’re referring to.
I believe this is more accurate.....
healthline.com/health-news/...
In general, IMHO Docs do not buy and resell drugs.....though I suppose there may be some Docs who own pharmacies, or stock in pharmacies ?
Yes, there has been publicity re certain types of financial incentives that may influence prescription patterns. IMHO, Docs are suject to malpractice claims if /when they prescribe improper drugs...and there are insurers involved to track prescription practice by MDs.
Do you believe any of your Docs are inappropriately prescribing for your situation?
I don’t believe they are inappropriately prescribing drugs, they are just following their guidelines and how they have been trained. In medical school they don’t spend much time or very little on nutrition.
You are parroting conspiracy theories. I have never met a PCa medical oncologist (and I have met many) who profits by selling drugs to patients. If they publish in any respected peer-reviewed journal, they are required to disclose such conflicts.
I am not parroting conspiracy theories. Do the research, you will find it.
There is a lot of garbage on the internet, which is easy to find, and many, not understanding how to separate garbage from actual science, believe the garbage. If you are interested in learning how to sort through it all, this may be a good starting point:
prostatecancer.news/2022/07...
Otherwise, you will get caught in an "epistemic bubble" which caused your prostate cancer to become lethal in the first place.
You keep claiming that my prostate cancer became lethal because of my decisions. You are not smart enough to know what is in my future. There are several men on this site that followed exactly what you’re promoting and constantly trying one drug after another trying to stop a lethal outcome. You have only bashed my decision and won’t talk about the failures of SOC.
There are no proven cures for metastatic PCa. There are proven cures for localized prostate cancer.
In the ARCHES trial, which I linked to above, after 4 years of follow-up, men with metastatic prostate cancer, nearly half (43%) of men using your current therapy (ADT+Casodex) had already died.
In the largest study among Gleason 9/10 patients treated with brachy boost therapy (the SOC) at top hospitals, only 3% had died of PCa at 5 years, and only 13% at 10 years of of follow-up. I think that with PSMA PET scans now available for better patient selection, even those low mortality numbers can be improved.
jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...
I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm only showing you that the path you are on is disastrous, and you can still improve your prognosis.
I disagree with you. I don’t feel bad about my choices. I’m a healthy minded well informed person. You keep posting statistics, I am not a statistic. I’m not average. I’m educated enough to understand there’s information that exists for laymen like me. Your links are one sided, that’s your problem. You can’t see beyond your intellect. You’re leading people down a very complicated path that have to rely on you for all their information. I don’t want that responsibility, I want people to know there’s more than one path, that’s what this forum is all about.
Every "statistic" represents a real person. You think anecdotes from one or two men you hear from are somehow more real than the experience of thousands of men in the exact same situation as you. (This is a cognitive error called "the availability heuristic.)
There's a path of medical science, there's a path of pseudoscience (people who think they are following science, but are not), and there's a path of magical thinking (people who rely on faith only). So far the path you've chosen has only resulted in your going from a potentially curable disease, to an incurable one.
I agree that there are always exceptions - biology isn't physics. But to quote Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky?"
TallAllen, thank God for free speech and freedom of choice. It’s as simple as that. You don’t know what my future holds or if I’m incurable. You have a reputation to defend, why would you open your mind and research alternative medicine, you’re too deep into your own beliefs. You have so many people who rely on your opinion. Stay the course and enjoy your life.
If you would do your research and think outside your limited abilities, you would find thousands of people treating their disease naturally and living an exceptional quality of life.
Luck is a fantasy, faith is real. God bless
I'll stick to science, thanks. I hope you wake up before it's too late.
I appreciate your concern, God bless
Did you buy your ADT from your MO??
No insurance paid for them
youtube.com/watch?v=n_g7xjT...
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Saturday 09/02/2023 2:42 PM DST
There are studies on " effectiveness of mind, body and spirit " ?????? were it that simple????
Here’s one article from MD Anderson, but if you research it, there’s many studies on chronic stress mdanderson.org/publications...
I wouldn't argue that stress is good for you, but I see nothing in that article that convinces me that alleviating whatever stress I'm feeling will give me a better cancer outcome.
Anyway, que sera, sera...researched out for now!!! IMHO reduced stress = better QOL !!
Sounds like you did need to shape up...congrats on doing that....can't hurt !!!!
Yes it can’t hurt and has definitively helped in my case. I feel amazing, better than I have in over 35 years!
too many dinners with real estate customers??
Too many trips to the snack cupboard in my kitchen, long hours at the office sitting in front of a computer and little to no exercise
You are on the right track both spiritually and physically. About a year ago I read about a study done by students at John Hopkins University. The study was to see if adt worked better in men with good gut micrombe. The study showed it did and the Dr. who reviewed it said it was so compelling that further studies should be done and fecal transplants could be an option. I would think that with your diet your gut health would be optimum. When God told Solomon he could have anything and Solomon chose wisdom. God Bless.
Amen Professorgary ☦️
I’m unclear as to your intent here. Is your message a cautionary tale? According to your bio, you were diagnosed in early 2022 with a PSA of 13. In August 2023, your PSA is over 100.
If I understand your bio correctly, you ignored the Urologist’s treatment plan and replaced it with diet and exercise. I’m curious, have you had scans to compare the cancer’s spread from 2/22 to 8/23? If yes, would you share the results?
Also, I’m curious to know how many pushups you can do after a month on ADT? I’ve been on ADT since 11/22 and despite lifting weights daily, I can barely do 5 pushups (and I have to cheat to do 5).
My best to you and your family
TMcgee, I learned from the guys on this forum and my cancer support groups that exercise is vital for a better outcome with or without ADT drugs. I started with 5 push-ups a day then 10,15,20,25,30,35, now I’m at 40. It’s a process 😅. I believe if I hadn’t changed my diet and lifestyle, the cancer would have metastasized a lot worse and I would have to rely on chemotherapy, radiation, and triple therapy ADT drugs.
A week after being diagnosed, the only scan I had was a bone scan April 2022. I didn’t start the ADT until 17 months after I was diagnosed with PC. My plant base diet included 32oz of fresh vegetable juice every day. Everything was going well, no metastasis in an PSMA PET/CT scan December 2022. It wasn’t until I discovered I had a hernia and severe pain in my groin and left testicle. I found when I drank the juice is when I had the pain. My urologist was treating my hernia pain with antibiotics. I researched my symptoms and realized I had a hernia, not my urologist. After 13 months I realized I needed a hernia surgeon and an oncologist on my own because my urologist missed the hernia and didn’t recommend an oncologist. After I stopped drinking the juice in February 2023 my PSA rose to 100 by May 2023. After two months fighting with insurance for a second PSMA PET/CT scan, it showed it metastasized to my left seminal vessel and a small legion on my pelvic bone. That’s when I decided to do 30 days of Cosodex and 30 days of Lupron. Only one week on Casodex alone, my PSA dropped from 100 to 50. Then started the Lupron along with Casodex, in 30 days my PSA was 3.9. A week after starting the Casodex I began drinking my 32oz juice and realized the pain in my groin and left testicle wasn’t as severe, so now I’m back on the juice. Lupron only per oncologist indefinitely or until I become castrate resistant. My hope and goal is 6-12 months on Lupron. I will have had 2 1/2 years plant base, juice, supplements, plenty of sunshine, fresh air, exercise, and spiritual growth. I hope to quit Lupron and pray my immune system is strong enough on its own, God willing to keep the cancer from killing me,
If I understand your post correctly, your first scan in 2022 was clean, as was your PSMA in Dec 2022. A 2nd PSMA in May 2023 showed distant spread to lymph nodes and bone. In August 23, you began ADT (Lupron) without an anti androgen. Prior to Lupron, you took Casodex for a week.
Assuming my understanding of your timeline is correct, because you didn’t take the Casodex for 30 days as prescribed, your Testosterone could have still been elevated when you began Lupron. That would explain how you are able to still perform 40 push-ups (good for you btw). As you lose muscle mass, I hope that you will track your numbers and report back the results.
You and I have similar stories, but different solutions. I learned about my PC after having hernia surgery. I have never had a PC biopsy. My education and vocation involved statistical models, which makes me much more comfortable evaluating clinical trial results (quantitative analysis), versus qualitative analysis.
In a separate thread, TA raised awareness regarding the Arches clinical trial, which your chosen treatment plan is following. You would be part of the control group. Based on the Arches trial, you should experience a decline in the progression of your cancer for up to six months; and then, as the cancer cells produce their own testosterone, the progression will elevate. Your PSA bio-marker (lagging indicator) should continue down for a couple more months; and then, it will begin to increase as the cancer evolves.
The progression is the same for everyone; it is the timing of the changes in progression that TA was discussing. He argued that an anti androgen would slow progression and increase survival. The Arches model supports TA’s argument.
I bring this topic up because I’m very interested in understanding what you will do next for treatment? Based on the beliefs that you have shared, you seem like a great candidate for immunotherapy. Seems that a treatment that is designed to teach your body to fight the cancer would fit your belief system. Just a word of caution, don’t wait a year after your PSA begins to increase before initiating your plan. The closer to nadir, the better the chance for a positive outcome.
One final point on the science. I believed in one of your posts you mention bias in the data. Of course, you are right. For the most part, drug companies fund trials, so they want candidates that are most likely to support the trial’s objectives. As example, it is well known that participants in a trial are 10 years younger than the overall PC population.
But, the math corrects the bias. You are not warning us about something that is unknown. You don’t have to trust the motives of pharma; but you will spend your life going in circles trying to disprove the math.
Since you are rejecting standard of care, I hope that you investigate immunotherapy. My best wishes for you and your family.
My first PSMA PET/CT scan in December 2022 showed no metastasis, only in prostate. The hernia took 5 months (May 2023) to diagnose. I believe stopping the juice for 5 months caused the metastasis. I stopped the juice because it caused severe pain in my hernia, testicle and scrotum.
August 1st 2023 I started and continued Casodex for 30 days along with Lupron. I started the Lupron one week after the Casodex. My PSA dropped from 100 to 50 before starting Lupron.
I know that I will probably become castrate resistant in the next year or two. I’m ramping up additional juicing, exercise, sunshine and supplements. My goal is to quit the ADT drugs in the next 6-12 months, God willing and have a good outcome. If not I will continue to educate myself and make the best decision integrating conventional along with alternative medicine.
I feel amazing, the best I’ve felt in 40 years. I’m working on forgiveness, bitterness and stress relief. I’m a huge believer in getting right with God.
I appreciate your conversation and support. There’s too many guys on this forum to mention by name, but I’ve added all of you to my prayers.
God bless you TMcgee!
I have been on a lot the same path. Diagnosed stage 4 only 4 months after prostrate removal. That was 7 years ago. I have been on the ADT train all but a short vacation ever since. With loss of testosterone I was having slow but steady increase in BP, cholesterol and glucose levels. I have always exercised and that continues. I went to plant based Whole Foods almost 3 years ago now. That change has brought all test scores into line. I only lost a few pounds but I didn’t need to lose a lot of weight. I feel much better than before! Stay the course. The medicines that are available are amazing, but so is our body’s ability to heal if given the chance. Wholistic is my choice of the way to go!
Thank you for sharing your experience. It’s men like you that can help men like me.
After reading Tall_Allen’s response I read your profile. Did you wait a year or longer before starting the ADT? If so, what led you to ultimately start getting ADT? Lastly- what kind of response do you think you would’ve had to treatment if you hadn’t changed your diet and made the other changes you mentioned? Hope you positive responses continue!
jfoesq, I believe if I hadn’t changed my diet and lifestyle, the cancer would have metastasized a lot worse and I would have to rely on chemotherapy, radiation, and triple therapy ADT drugs.
You are correct. I didn’t start the ADT until 17 months after I was diagnosed with PC. My plant base diet included 32oz of fresh vegetable juice every day. Everything was going well, no metastasis in an PSMA PET/CT scan December 2022. It wasn’t until I discovered I had a hernia and severe pain in my groin and left testicle. I found when I drank the juice is when I had the pain. My urologist was treating my hernia pain with antibiotics. I researched my symptoms and realized I had a hernia, not my urologist. After 13 months I realized I needed a hernia surgeon and an oncologist on my own because my urologist missed the hernia and didn’t recommend an oncologist. After I stopped drinking the juice in February 2023 my PSA rose to 100 by May 2023. After two months fighting with insurance for a second PSMA PET/CT scan, it showed it metastasized to my left seminal vessel and a small legion on my pelvic bone. That’s when I decided to do 30 days of Cosodex and 30 days of Lupron. Only one week on Casodex alone, my PSA dropped from 100 to 50. Then started the Lupron along with Casodex, in 30 days my PSA was 3.9. A week after starting the Casodex I began drinking my 32oz juice and realized the pain in my groin and left testicle wasn’t as severe, so now I’m back on the juice. Lupron only per oncologist indefinitely or until I become castrate resistant. My hope and goal is 6-12 months on Lupron. I will have had 2 1/2 years plant base, juice, supplements, plenty of sunshine, fresh air, exercise, and spiritual growth. I quit Lupron and pray my immune system is strong enough on its own, God willing to keep the cancer from killing me,
"Drinking the Kool-Aid is an expression used to refer to a person who believes in a possibly doomed or dangerous idea because of perceived potential high rewards".
Seriously though, I genuinely wish you well.
PSAed, I appreciate that you wish me well. Drinking the Kool-Aid is my concern for those who follow men posting links to one sided studies. Can’t we all agree that we’re not statistics, we’re intelligent species that if given information and choices, we can decide what’s best for us.
With respect RealatorDude we can all do whatever we want of course, but I value the advice and treatment of Prostate cancer specialists and will continue to do so. By the way, I too changed my diet ....including beetroot juice ( not kool Aid LOL.. and I exercise most days, and like you I feel great. But that is for my general health and in preparation...if needed...to offset the side effects of further treatment . I do not believe my healthy diet will change the course of my cancer.
PSAed, I agree with you on following the prostate cancer specialists, if they make sense and are willing to work with me. If they ignore my concerns or speak down to me, I lose confidence in them. I’m my case after being diagnosed with PC my urologist recommended a radical prostatectomy. Two years prior I had a PSA of 8.7 in 2019. Thanks to my primary care doctor, and my sister who had breast cancer, they recommended a plant-based diet and exercise. I implemented a plant-based diet and exercise only without any other naturopathic protocol, and my PSA dropped 1 1/2 points. I knew that if I continued to do the full naturopathic protocol with my history, I could beat the cancer on my own. After a year of the plant-based diet, I discovered I had a hernia that was misdiagnosed by my urologist, who treated me with antibiotics. 10 months after a second pet scan I realized I needed additional help with ADT drugs. I haven’t had great experiences with all doctors, but I have with some.
High Gleason here but fortunately had EBRT, not removal. We follow WFPB diet and adapt now and then. We believe alcohol hastens demise of breast and prostate cancer patients. So much we do not know but we are 77 and 7 yrs post dx, alive and kickin’! We try to follow Buddhism and give it and our diet and lifestyle, credit for our health and happiness. Great outcomes to you and yours🌴☀️🌸
Continue Casodex or move to Lupron?
Zytiga and Lupron 18 months or 24
Lupron - 18 months vs 24 months
