Estetrol for bone density? What estrogen test so I need, anything specific?

[watertender]

Found this interesting article on estetrol and wondering if anyone out there has taken this form of estrogen? I see a lot of posts relating to estradiol patches but the E4 estrogen form appears to be much better at least on first look. The clinical trials were done in the Netherlands so it may be something that is unavailable to us here in the states.

I have just been diagnosed with osteoporosis as many of us have and because of my crappy dental health am looking for an alternative to bisphosphonates. I see that many have been having some success with this approach. I am and will still be on Orgovyx so this would be a cotreatment if I can get my MO to agree to let me try. I have never had my estrogen level checked and am wondering if there is a particular test for this that a man should take as opposed to what is given to a woman to measure estrogen levels.

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[Tall_Allen]

Looks good! 😀 But far from approval (no Phase 3 trials yet).😞

[watertender in reply to Tall_Allen]

Guess it would be pointless to ask my MO about it then. Looks like tE2 would be my next option.

[Explorer08]

You might consider Tymlos. My wife is on Tymlos because she cannot use bisphosphonates. An endocrinologist is the type of specialist to see for this.

[watertender in reply to Explorer08]

Thanks much I'll check that out.

[Bethpage in reply to Explorer08]

Tymlos is for 2 years. Once the 2 years is finished, one cannot use it again; it will not be prescribed. Gains disappear rapidly unless some other med is taken. I'm one (woman) who had good gains for 6 months and then the favorable gains completely disappeared. It happens a lot with Tymlos.

[Explorer08 in reply to Bethpage]

Actually, Tymlos is an 18 month treatment. Plus it’s been recently approved for a second round treatment, especially for those that cannot use bisphosphonates. This is a very recent development.

[Bethpage in reply to Explorer08]

Wow, a lot has changed! Mine was for 2 years. I don't think I'd be able to receive it again because my bone density went straight downhill the last 18 months. I'm really glad to know that a second round has been approved because it must work for many.

[dixiedad]

I'm taking calcium citrate supplement and D3 to aid absorption. I also work out morning and afternoon with 15 lb dumbbells. I have osteopenia, but last bone density scan showed 5% gain in bone density.

Good luck.

[watertender in reply to dixiedad]

I am doing the same but with lighter weights & am wondering if that is the issue plus not lifting daily. Your response has been great best wishes on continued success with it.

[dixiedad in reply to watertender]

Thank you

[KocoPr in reply to dixiedad]

I believe you should be taking K2 to aid absorption of calcium out if your blood vessels. There is so much written on the importance of K2 with vitd and calcium.

Proper Calcium Use: Vitamin K2 as a Promoter of Bone and Cardiovascular Health

Inadequate calcium intake can lead to decreased bone mineral density, which can increase the risk of bone fractures. Supplemental calcium promotes bone mineral density and strength and can prevent osteoporosis. Recent scientific evidence, however, suggests that elevated consumption of calcium supplements may raise the risk for heart disease and can be connected with accelerated deposit of calcium in blood-vessel walls and soft tissues. In contrast, vitamin K2 is associated with the inhibition of arterial calcification and arterial stiffening. An adequate intake of vitamin K2 has been shown to lower the risk of vascular damage because it activates matrix GLA protein (MGP), which inhibits the deposits of calcium on the walls. Vitamin K, particularly as vitamin K2, is nearly nonexistent in junk food, with little being consumed even in a healthy Western diet. Vitamin K deficiency results in inadequate activation of MGP, which greatly impairs the process of calcium removal and increases the risk of calcification of the blood vessels. An increased intake of vitamin K2 could be a means of lowering calcium-associated health risks.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[dixiedad in reply to KocoPr]

Many thanks for the info. I'm taking K also.

[SeattleDan]

I hope to see more commentary on the various choices people on ADT are making when DEXA scans indicate osteopenia. After a second year of virtually no testosterone, and in spite of my thinking that I was eating right and exercising, I just learned that the bone density in my lumbar/lower back is seriously deficient.

[PhilipSZacarias]

Hello Watertender, you are using orgovyx as a form of ADT to decrease testosterone (T). A portion of this androgen is converted to estradiol by the enzyme aromatase. Estradiol is necessary for maintaining bone density. When T levels are nil or low, then estradiol levels are concomitantly nil or very low. You can be assured that estetrol will be expensive when it becomes available. A significantly less expensive alternative is low dosages of transdermal estradiol (tE2), which has been shown to be safe. You can find many papers discussing tE2 on Pubmed. I have been using a tE2 gel since early 2021 with good results. Cheers, Phil

[KocoPr in reply to PhilipSZacarias]

exactly! I can’t understand why the OC does not order estrodiol tests every time he orders a testosterone test while on ADT.

I also read a post by Patrick on “Fight Prostate Cancer” group about making sure your E2 is not to low nor to high. Can’t find post at the moment.

[watertender in reply to KocoPr]

So I should request a estrodiol test from my MO the next time I have my T checked?

I remember seeing that post you are referring to I'll take a look and see if I can locate it.