I'm on ADT for life and I'm a retired professional golfer. I play three days a week. I feel so weak and tired when I play but I put up with it. Does anyone have any ideas how I can have more energy during my rounds of golf? My PSA and scans are undetectable and I don't want to take anything that would jeopardize that. I'm 72 years old. I know this may sound petty to some but golf has been my life. It's what I do.
Need More Energy: I'm on ADT for life... - Advanced Prostate...
Need More Energy
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epfj3333
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I lift heavy 5 days a week and do intermittent fasting, solves a lot of problems for me but everyone is different
Please describe your fasting program?
you could try American ginseng, not Panax. I started taking it, it helps some with fatigue but not as much as I had hoped. Everyone is different though so it might help.
weight training has help me combat fatigue why don’t you lift weights three times a week on your non golf days. Build a program, one hour three times a week for resistance training. If you can afford it, get a trainer and start training with them start off real light. I bet it will make all the difference in the world.
Fully understand how you feel. I was a professionell runner and was also fatigued by Lupron, even when I continued running. I lost almost all my muscle mass. Then I started with weight lifting and gymnastic. At start I had troubles with 2 kg dumbbells for my 15 reps and 3 sets. Now I’m lifting 5 and 7 kg dumbbells and my body is in better shape than before DXed. I also do gymnastics, especially lower back training and planks and squads. I practice every day with alternating exercises and run 7 - 12 km daily. This sports package keeps fatigue away. Sometimes it’s hard to start, but always feeling good afterwards.
I found most of my exercises on Youtube, maybe you want to give it a try? I can also provide a link upon request.
weight training is the answer. I golf three times a week but I also go to a personal trainer for an hour three times a week and work my butt off. My oncologist was very clear. Those to do weight training, feel pretty good on these drugs. Those who don’t, don’t. I do and I feel pretty good
Schwah
Schwah nails it. I think I’ve said this before. A lot of guys think that ADT induced fatigue and weakness are randomly experienced and that those who do well on it are just lucky. With few exceptions this is nonsense.
The fatigue is directly caused by the muscle wasting ADT causes. We must lift to counter it. Adding cardiovascular exercise to to a lifting program brings even better results.
The ADT may be kicking your ass, but you are still playing elite level golf I’m sure. I am fit and strong, and a terrible golfer. Don’t worry about getting big, you’re too old for that. I would give it a go if I were you.
Great luck to you!
Hi fellow traveller, I'm also 72 , also 9 years into this journey. Long story short, nearly 8 years on ADT then with psa rising I discovered Verita Life in Thailand, cost an arm and a leg but got good results. I was very tired on ADT , no energy at all but a year on from the Verita Life clinic treatment my psa has gone from a high of 61 to 0.05 with a huge improvement in my energy levels, I am very happy with this result. Originally diagnosed with stage 4 Gleason 9 extremely aggressive and extremely adaptive prostate cancer. Psa at diagnosis was 15 and 2 weeks later at prostatectamy it was 30, Cancer was in two lymph nodes. Ended up with 5 metastasis, 3 in my spine and 2new ones in my pelvis .
DEFINITELY feel a lot better now that I am not on ADT. It's been a bumpy journey but I have hope for a lot more life now. At my worst I considered a quiet exit but now I hope to see my grandchildren grow up.
I have been lucky to get a second chance and I wish everyone could be lucky enough to find an answer to to this terrible thing. My advice is keep looking for answers and you might be lucky enough to find what you need.
Maybe elaborate on the treatment as well as results. What are they doing different for you.
Curious...
Firmagon for life. PSA undetectable, testosterone 2, all scans negative.
My psa and scans were both negative at one stage after I had been on zolodex for about a year after my operation, then the doctors did a doubling test and after 6 months my psa started to rise, at 12 months it started to rise rapidly so they put me on firmagon which only slowed the rise, so cosudex was added. This , with some additions of my own kept things in check for just over 5 more years. During this time I went to the Australian prostate cancer clinic in Melbourne and followed various other protocols, cancer oncology clinic in London, Jane McClellands how to starve cancer and any thing else I could find. My oncologist said that I had added years to my life with what I was doing. I was originally given a maximum of 10 years of life. I tried exercise protocols but found all they did was rob the little amount of energy the adt left me each day and left me exhausted for one or two days after. The monthly firmagon injection would also leave me incapacitated for several days. At this point if a bus was going to run over me I would not have stepped out of the way but I do have a family so put that option at the end of the list.
Then in the middle of covid I found a holistic clinic that had experience with various cancers, after a blood test to ascertain what my particular cancer was susceptible to, I added those particular components to my protocol, this helped slow the progression but not reverse it.
Next step was a trip to Thailand to the Verita Life Clinic . I was there for 11 weeks and came home with my psa in a downward trend from a high of 61 to at present 0.05. I have also been regaining my energy levels.
My current protocol includes Lycopene, Celoxib,Ketoconazole, Metformin, Cyclophosphamide, Black cumin, Sulforaphane, Artesunate, Curcumin, Resveratrol, Rapamycin Folic acid and Zinc. It's been a year since I came back from Thailand and I continue to improve.
My last psma scan 9 months ago showed only slight uptake in one of my 5 metastasis . I also follow a strict diet from the clinic and have 3 monthly consultations with the clinic's doctor.
Hopefully this will help someone.
Every one's journey is individual and I believe that cancer is a foe that we must be ever vigilant against. In Australia 10 men die daily from prostate cancer and 25,000 a year are diagnosed with this horrible disease. This is a short version of my story so far. We are all warriors in this battle, our best weapon is self education. Just do your best.
Absolutely awesome and useful breakdown! Thank you so much, and I am inspired by your journey, not sure if I could chase all that, but it appears you got back from what you put into your efforts!
Gives me much to examine and look at.
Thank you again, all the Best!
Edit to add:
Printed to PDF to preserve the information!
I am as well a 72 YO golfing fan and love playing 2-3x/week. Walk daily goal 8-12K steps. Weight lifting very light weights. When my physical fatigue began to egt too bothersome I worked with Infopathy and am slowly and safely enjoying the progress. Here's some info if you like of contact me and we can discuss this. infopathy.com/?invite=57015747
Some doctors will prescribe Ritalin or Adderol for cancer patients to provide relief from cancer treatment related fatigue as well as brain fog etc. It can have a very positive effect on QOL.
Ed
I guess weight training wins.....l don't. A few years ago my cardiologist said "no lifting weights". I have trouble playing 9 holes of miniature golf especially putting through the windmill...But so far I haven't lost a ball...... (theirs or mine)....
Age is just a number.......
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/17/2023 8:49 AM DST
“ old golfers never die, they just lose their balls “ ….. unlike golfers, we lose our balls , then go off and die …. Go figure.
😂😂😂
A lifelong workaholic, 8 days per week, 14hr days, etc. Always had high metabolism, plenty of energy, worked like that and only needed 4-6hrs of sleep and was like new.
Introduce ADT, and not so much... What a difference in regard to stamina, strength, etc. Loss of muscle mass, weight, just nuts. Body shifting towards feminine in that regard. Is crazy! Recently went back to Dojo and workouts there, used to do that 5x per week for 2.5hrs minimum, and can basically fight to workout for an hour then bottom out physically...
So evidentiary exhibition shows a change, in discussion with my MO he asked "what are you doing about that" meaning get physical, walk, exercise, etc. And I do... But it is fighting major bodily changes introduced by the drugs, a hard fight!
I've read with interest posts regarding supplements and or other substance that can stimulate muscle growth absent steroidal use, or T promotion. Need to explore this avenue more, and learn (quickly) I think. Thoughts and information in this regard might be helpful!
Hahahaha, I've wondered how artificial stimulation like the use of Cocaine might impact the PCa... Lmao! That's how crazy this disease is, as it takes you to places you would have never even contemplated. Not that I would do that, or advocate it, just noting that it enters the mind! Hahahahaha
Good Luck and Best Regards
I've benefitted from Provigil; it helps with focus and energy. Best of luck.
I feel exactly the same sometimes...what I found was;
The more I work my body the more it responds; hard workouts make me less tired. I lift weights 4 times a week, ride my bike 2 miles 6 times a week and that keeps me energy level up (counter intuitive).
Sleep can really mess you up. If I wake up tired I feel sluggish all day. I have to get up at night 2-3 times a night to urinate (dont we all) and unless I get a solid 3-4 hours of straight sleep I get messed up...try to make sure you can sleep...if you have apnea, if you snore, you wake yourself up...I watched a YouTube podcast that said to avoid this sleep at a 7 degree incline; worked! I dont snore anymore, sleep very well and feel rested when I wake up. Here is the LINK...
I take supplements including AndroT, by Earths Creation, which seems to help me...I am also trying to recover my TET (testosterone) so I thought this supplement could help me in that regard...but try to find it. Its formulated for men and its main goal is to improve vigor and energy...my Brother is a natural products chemist, makes vitamins for a living and recommended it to me...again can send that info if you are interested
But push yourself even if you feel sluggish...the body is amazing and responds...best to you. Rick
Enjoyed the YouTube sleep reference. If I buy one more pillow from Amazon my wife will make me move out. We already have a guest room filled with pillows that didn't work. She's actually donated a few pillows to a battered women's shelter. That said, I would like to try the wedge. We sleep on a California King which is large and heavy so there's no way we could lift, let alone bend that mattress to insert something under it. I have two blown out shoulders and cannot sleep on either side for even a short period of time. Sleeping on one's stomach, for me, is a non-starter even with that crazy, snorkel like gadget. As far as getting up at night to urinate, get yourself a pee bottle. I have two with lids that glow in the dark.
--K.
Let me put it this way, I have my daughters baby shower to attend in Sep this year and our in laws are coming from Italy, plus other guests...in true form she has rented a giant cabin where all her friends and family will sleep...my wife is horrified of the prospect of me NOT having this damn pillow, it works that well for me (not sure it will work for you)...we had gotten to the point where she told me 1) sleep on your side ( which I could not even if I were super-glued down) or 2) I move to another room...so I tried this and it worked...so we will buy another set of this damn pillow just for the Sep event! NO, I dont get a penny from this pillow sale...but it may not work for you. Its the only thing that has worked for me and as long as I can go 3-4 hours between pee breaks I get up with energy and have it all day...if I get up groggy, man its a long day for sure..
...your pee bottles are a hoot! Reminds me of long-haul Truckers and their use of 2 L bottles of empty coke! But will consider...good luck. Rick
PS glow in the dark? Really? That is too funny...
Trick is to get willy to glow in the dark.......
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/17/2023 5:32 PM DST
Have you tried a keto diet? I went on keto a couple months ago because I HAD to - it's the only thing that has ever given me mega-energy over the years. So much so, that I recently joined a gym with 5-10 miles on my exercise bike every night. With keto you're burning fats not carbs of course, and it makes a major difference in energy levels. It's like night and day for me.
As others have written, weight training, as intensive as you can about 3 x week. To that I would add short sprints (just two all-out 20-second sprints on a stationary bike with two minutes rest in between)
I do cardio & weights 5 days a week. Today the golf was better. Played the last 3 holes in 4 under par (birdie, birdie, eagle). Normally I'm totally exhausted by the time I get to the last 3 holes. The difference was I drank much more water with Nuun tablets (for hydration). I'll keep doing this.
Oh, you are already doing weights/cardio, fine. Adding sprints, under three minutes time investment, just could make wonders for you and your VO2 max.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/280...
Wow, 4 under par 3 holes I see you are still a pro 
I wish I could. I have an artificial right hip & a fused right ankle.
Against that background you seem to be doing very well for exercise
I'm a semi-retired duffer, so our golf games have nothing in common. But i still rock tiger woods golf for the wii. Let me know if you want a match.
I have found that one of the biggest ironies of the treatment side effects is that the more I feel tired and fatigued, the more important is is to lift.
Just as importantly, if i exert myself and I tire quickly and my thinking gets muddled, I've had to learn to just stop, despite whatever my plans are. In the summer I spend a lot of time rafting and tubing. Several times last summer I had to raft one day with the kids and grandkids, take a recovery day, and then hit the water hard again the third day.
The hardest part is adjusting to whatever is your new normal. I used to be a heavy lifter, now I struggle to not be embarrassed by the paltry number of plates that I lift.
Basically, I do yard work (I have 3 acres) work out & play golf. I can pace myself when I do yard work & work out. When I play golf, I have to keep playing without any "down" time. I can't tell my playing partners to take a time out while I rest. Hydration seems to be the answer. I was much better today when I drank more water.
Glad the hydration helped, sounds like you may be onto something.
I have experimented with hydration, sports drinks, increasing my protein intake, supplements, etc. It is tough to find a balance. For me the biggest breakthroughs were from increasing my lifting, and accepting that my new normal requires increased rest and time for recovery. Best of luck, and celebrate the "short and down the middle" days. Some of our compadres can't walk the course anymore, much less hit the links for a score.
I read your bio. Don't pay any attention to how long your urologist says you have to live. A good MO will chase that cancer around and keep it at bay until you die at an old age from getting run over by a bus!
Thanks. Moved past the uro's estimate now, but at the time of diagnosis it was a big slap in the face. Now, I'm planning on living until I don't have any options left.
Like I said, there will always be options. As time goes on, there will be more and more options. Eventually, like everyone, you will die, but not from prostate cancer.
I lift weights, wake surf, bike 100 miles a week and play pickelball. I do not feel weak and I have plenty of energy. Not sure if it would help you but it is said that exercise is the answer.
I agree, but I lift & do aerobics five days a week and maintain 3 acres of land. I'm sure exercise helps. Hydration seems to be the answer.
Not petty at all. My husband (72) also has metastatic PC and while not a “ professional “ golfer, it too gives him the most joy. He’s also pushing thru being tired and I’m hopeful someone will have some good suggestions for you and him. Glad you are still playing in spite of being tired. It’s great for your QOL!
I can't speak for ADT drugs, but my oncologist says he is seeing patients having a lot less severe side effects with the daily oral form of Lupron (Relugolix) compared to Lupron injections.
Good to see so many testimonials about benefits of weight training. I'll step up that part of my game.
I'm right there with ya. Been on ADT for the past three years along with numerous other meds. Now on Pluvicto along with Xtandi, and the beloved Lupron. Damn, I'm whipped. My hobby has been motorcycle riding for almost 50 years, but now I don't dare ride because I'm just too weak. Lost 40 lbs in the past 6 months, muscle mass is terrible, balance is not good either. I'm trying to get some light weight training started just to get some muscle mass back, not sure if it will even come back. Wish I had the answer, but it seems that weight training is the answer if you can muster up the strength and ambition to do it.
Anyway, motorcycle is up for sale, and my riding days are over. Too dangerous when you're this weak.
I gave it upp too. My last bike was a 400 hp Boss Hoss! I miss those days. I'm glad I survived them!
My bike is a Victory Cross Country Tour, but at almost 850 lbs, I just wish I could have one more long trip.
Sorry your Boss Hoss days are over but there are other options if you want 2 wheel transportation.
MY BIKES happen to be the ones that require pedaling. There is a SpaceX launch scheduled for 12:41AM tomorrow and if the clouds disappear I'll be out on my Rans Velocity Squared recumbent riding to a location that's miles from my house for the best view of the launch that takes place 90 miles across the State from where I live. Thankfully the CASTRATION that I had 8 years ago makes riding all of my bikes more comfortable especially on the day I rode 307 miles in 20 hours.
No. If I can't feel 400 horsepower between my legs I'd prefer not to ride anything with two wheels.
Back in H.S. I joined the Golf Club. A friend and I were out after school one day for a round when we walk up to the 13th T and there's a guy on the ground with his buddy a bit frantic. We are told the guy just collapsed so I take off running back to the Club House to report and get EMS there. Had a very difficult time running a Par 3 + Par 4 + Par 5 distance to the Club House since I was not a very active youth. Sadly the guy didn't make it and playing a Round of Golf was never as much fun as it was before that day.
Keep on getting those Eagles and Birdies.
Diet may be an issue
High carb meals tend to give me much more energy
Have I high carb meal 1 hour before you play
And stretching pre and post may help
I also am a golf addict. Almost 65 years old. Play 3x per week and actually live on the course - 13th hole so maybe that brought me the bad luck of PC gleason 10 metastatic. LOL. Certainly not a professional but I keep my HC in the 9-11 range. On triple therapy right now including Eligard and Nubeqa. Half way through six courses of Chemo. Also Zometa for bones. So I have lots of medication in me, with testosterone undetectable and PSA down to 1.2 after being as high as 156 just 60 days ago.
I'm actually holding up pretty well, even in this Georgia summer heat and humidity. I just try to follow the fundamentals ... 8-9 hours of sleep each night, stay well hydrated, eat a balanced diet, stay active but not overly active. That means golf, rides on my electric bike with spouse, cutting the grass, tending to my vegetable garden, water aerobics, and running errands. I also do about 45 minutes of light gym work each morning up in my second floor loft. Core work, hand weights, back stretches, resistance bands, and kegels. If I do one big activity such as golf or mowing and trimming the yard, then the remainder of the day I take it easy.
When I'm on the golf course, I always take snacks and plenty of fluids. I purposely slow down compared to what I used to do, which has actually helped me to play better. Almost all my golf games are competitive meaning $7 games with seniors or $10 and $20 games with the broader men's golf association. This mild to moderate competition helps keep me engaged as well. I also swallowed any pride and I play the gold tees at only 5600 yards. I hit most fairways and a lot of greens so I don't expend too much excess energy. I take an electric cart of course, as does everybody on this hilly wooded course. Best of luck to you.
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