Dr. Abraham Morgentaler and TESTOSTERONE

[addicted2cycling]

IMO, a great interview and eye opener for sure.

grandroundsinurology.com/in...

p.s. -- following next PSA I likely will begin my *T* injections again and get back to 1,600ng/dL

p.p.s. - apology if previously posted

[Scout4answers]

Can't find his new book

[addicted2cycling in reply to Scout4answers]

Doesn't help when author forgets title. 🤔

[Djangler in reply to Scout4answers]

Maybe this one?

amazon.com/Truth-About-Men-...

I've seen an earlier case study he published with a good results for a handful of PCa patients but can't find it now.

Just my opinion: His points are well-reasoned and should be considered. He comes off as a bit of a testosterone evangelist. Not necessarily a bad thing, but as with any evangelist, take it with the number of grains of salt that make you comfortable.

[Scout4answers in reply to Djangler]

thanks I saw that one, published in 2015, was hoping for something recent .

[ocman]

How many mg/week is that dosage?

[addicted2cycling in reply to ocman]

bilateral Orchiectomy in April 2015 and began Cypionate Jan 2016

1ml every 2 weeks of Cypionate 200MG/ML

Once on schedule then following the injection *T* tests at 1,600ng/dL then down to 450ng/dL to 600ng/dL before next injection

[clayfin in reply to addicted2cycling]

You should try .3ml every second day - that way the troughs even out and the serum levels are more even and fewer side effects too. Use an insulin needle - 29 gauge and 1/2 inch long - and inject into your delta or ventro-glutes.

[addicted2cycling in reply to clayfin]

Thanks 👍👍 Side effects even at my current *T*<2.5ng/dL are almost nothing other than lack of exercise recovery and when ON T there are *NO trough* side effects since T is 450ng/dL(+) at time for next injection.

[clayfin in reply to addicted2cycling]

👍

[Scout4answers]

Is Abe Mergenthaler still seeing patients?

[Benkaymel]

I have to admit I’m struggling to understand what's new here. I wasn’t aware that anyone believed that testosterone actually caused PCa otherwise every man would surely get the disease, wouldn’t they? However, even he concedes that once you have got the disease, lowering T (via ADT) shrinks the tumours.

He then says that raising T above 250 ng/dL doesn’t cause any further tumour growth. This may be true. Before I started ADT a year ago, my tumours were clearly growing and if I hadn’t gone onto ADT they would have continued growing. At that time my T was obviously somewhat higher than 250, so by his argument, lowering T just to 250 would do nothing and it had to be reduced to well below 250 (in fact, below 50) in order for the tumours to stop growing and start shrinking.

So surely all he is doing is confirming that if you want to shrink the tumours, you must make sure you reduce T to much lower than 250 – which we already knew is true.

What am I missing?

[addicted2cycling in reply to Benkaymel]

Benkaymel wrote -- " ... What am I missing? "

His opinion is DECADES OLD and remains contrary to much current day thinking by many. Thought (?) he was mentioning a T<20ng/dL for short time frame along with treatment and then no ADT allowing return to 250ng/dL (even higher) does not grow the PCa and allows the man a better QoL.

[Benkaymel in reply to addicted2cycling]

I didn't hear that and if you look at the graph in the referenced article it shows the rate of tumour growth increasing as T goes from zero to 250 where it then plateaus.

[addicted2cycling in reply to Benkaymel]

Thanks, my bad for having to not taken in the entire message so will review. 👍

p.s. - now almost 8 years since the Cryo of my right half GL10 tumor with on/off Cypionate to 1,600ng/dL and still no sign of a return.

[Benkaymel in reply to addicted2cycling]

Great to hear. Long may it continue for you!

[lowT163 in reply to Benkaymel]

unfortunately nothing. Just means the drs have no idea what really causes the crap and treating it with drugs that makes us exhausted is all they have. Has to be hell being a transgender. Can you imagine doing that intentionally?

[Djangler in reply to Benkaymel]

Not sure, but I think what he's saying that high-T for men with PCa is not as dangerous as once thought and does have QoL benefits. Sounds like it's related to Bipolar Androgen Therapy.

[Benkaymel in reply to Djangler]

That may be true for men who are not metastatic but if you have mets, high T will let them grow faster.

[Djangler in reply to Benkaymel]

Confused. BAT alternates supraphysiological levels of T with castrate levels. It is only recommended for mCRPC patients. For those who respond to this treatment, there are extended periods with no sign of disease progression. This is documented in Phase 2 trials. Since all patients in these trials are metastatic, the results seem to be at odds with your assertion.

[addicted2cycling in reply to Djangler]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....

below quoted from ^^^

" ... Bipolar androgen therapy (BAT) is an emerging treatment strategy for patients with metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer (mCRPC). During BAT, serum testosterone is cycled from supraphysiologic down to near-castrate levels every month [1]... "

[Benkaymel in reply to Djangler]

I don't think it's recommended for symptomatic metastatic cases like me.

[Djangler in reply to Benkaymel]

Good point. When I spoke with Dr. Denmeade, he recommended against BAT for patients with bone pain. He said the pain will often worsen significantly for these patients and they're not comfortable causing that level of distress.

[edfriedman in reply to Benkaymel]

The problem with Morgentaler's model is that he totally ignores the effect of membrane androgen receptors. There is evidence to suggest that barring unusual mutations, in order for PCa to thrive it needs to have a relative balance between the agonism to intracellular androgen receptor and the agonism to membrane androgen receptor. For a detailed description of why this is so, see: tbiomed.biomedcentral.com/a...

[addicted2cycling in reply to edfriedman]

^^^ article was Published 01 August 2007. His interview was *Posted by Neil H. Baum, MD | Feb 2023*

[edfriedman in reply to addicted2cycling]

The date that an article has been published is irrelevant. The question is whether the article is factual or not. It is wrong to assume that all researchers are aware of all pertinent articles in their field. E.g., in 2008 it was shown that, without a doubt, the cause of prostate cancer is high local levels of estradiol acting on estrogen receptor-alpha. However, to this day it is hard to find any doctor or researcher who is aware of this fact. See: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/180...

[addicted2cycling in reply to edfriedman]

edfriedman wrote -- "The date that an article has been published is irrelevant... "

Interesting, especially when I often see a notation mentioning *updated on some date* YEARS later following more research and developments.

[London441]

More of the same.

[Daveofnj]

I wonder why Morgentaler focuses on Total Testosterone and not Free T or Bioavailable T, which would seem to be much more relevant.

[Doseydoe]

Thanks for posting this information, very interesting, cheers DD 😎.

[j-o-h-n]

Dr. Abraham Morgentaler is all over the internet....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 03/07/2023 11:02 PM EST

[Hidden]

You are the “T” master ! Go t! 👍👏👏👏

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to Hidden]

Only a T man could split a boar in half with his bike lol.