Maybe the genetics research we have a... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Maybe the genetics research we have all been relying on isn't so reliable?

cesces profile image
18 Replies

Maybe the genetics research we have all been relying on isn't so reliable?

Affecting Up to 216,000 Studies – Popular Genetic Method Found To Be Deeply Flawed

Https://scitechdaily.com/affecting-up-to-216000-studies-popular-genetic-method-found-to-be-deeply-flawed/

Researchers employ statistical techniques to condense and simplify the data while maintaining the majority of the important information in order to make the data more manageable. PCA (principal component analysis) is perhaps the most widely used approach. Imagine PCA as an oven with flour, sugar, and eggs serving as the input data. The oven may always perform the same thing, but the ultimate result, a cake, is highly dependent on the ratios of the ingredients and how they are mixed.

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cesces
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18 Replies
mrscruffy profile image
mrscruffy

I think with the positive hits in other members and numerous cancer deaths ours is reliable

cesces profile image
cesces in reply to mrscruffy

Statistics is a funny thing.

Intuition is often misleading. That's why the FDA requires clinical trials.

What is obvious is often just not so.

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS

Maybe is a key word however data analytics is way over my head so I'm out of this conversation.

We do have genetic based treatment and it only works on those with the genetic markers its intended for. Not all is lost by any means.

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply to CAMPSOUPS

My comment should have regarded genomic rather than genetic markers.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen

What genetics research have you been relying on? Patients use genomics research, not genetics research.

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply to Tall_Allen

I knew that and so at this moment feeling a bit stupid for not seeing it lol.

cesces profile image
cesces in reply to Tall_Allen

hmmm

So genomics research does not use: PCA (principal component analysis)

I assumed that they both use the same tools.

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to cesces

Bad assumption

cesces profile image
cesces in reply to Tall_Allen

"Genomic testing looks at the ways in which your genes interact and what those interactions mean to your health. Genomic testing is different from genetic testing because it looks at all of your genes, rather than detecting a single gene mutation."

It would appear to me that most of what we discuss here relaying to prostate cancer is about genetic testing (for single genes) as opposed to genomics?

No?

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to cesces

No.

cesces profile image
cesces in reply to Tall_Allen

lol

Tall_Allen profile image
Tall_Allen in reply to Tall_Allen

Genomics looks at which genes are or aren't expressed. Genomics can be germline (Color Genome Dx, etc), somatic (Decipher, Foundation one, Caritas, etc), or both (eg, Guardant 360). The genetics studies they are talking about have to do with the occurrence of genes in an ethnic or geographic population. It has nothing to do with individual diagnosis.

cesces profile image
cesces in reply to Tall_Allen

thank you

Watemote profile image
Watemote

Hi All, Data Scientist here. PCA is a technique to look for “linear relationships” among variables ina data set. For example, if you had a set of data describing various recipes for rice we could use PCA to see if there is a fixed relationship between the amount of water and rice to be used and how well that ratio describes all recipes. If we only have one kind of rice, consistent high quality measures and only one style (sticky, parboiled, etc…) we are trying to cook the PCA would describe that discovered ratio very well. If our data mixes various types of rice, target styles and has a mixture of measurement accuracies then PCA will still describe average ratios correctly but will have must less accuracy and therefore value. Beyond this, the well known problem with PCA is that If relationships cannot be well described by fixed ratios, for example rice cooked in larger vessel has differing water/rice ratios (it does), then PCA will still produce results but they will not be useful or predictive.

Nevertheless many academic studies in many many fields begin with PCA analysis because if relationships are largely fixed ratios PCA runs fast and works on incredibly big data easily. Without digging further I say the article is a rather “click bate-y” in that it is pointing out well known problem and just using a search engine with the combined terms “Genomics” and “PCA”, finding thousands of results and then claiming that huge swaths of research are invalid is unfair to the thousands of projects that just use PCA as an obvious starting point nd move on to more complex methods as merited.

Hope that helps

cesces profile image
cesces in reply to Watemote

sooo

Watermote

Is pca related the research on the handful of genetic markers related to prostate cancer?

Watemote profile image
Watemote

the article refers to use of PCA for population genetics. Relevant to PC, we might examine patient ethnicity and use PCA to make a very simplistic model proposing that ethnic background had a fixed influence over prevalence of PC is related populations. We could use PCA to make a model given percent of Central African (positive contributes) and East Asian ancestry (negative contributor) to predict rate of PC. This model would be terrible because it would only use two factors and would assume that a 1% increase in African ancestry equals a fixed increase in PC risk. Actual risk increase is more likely a complex response curve and poorly modeled by a straight line. There may be some garbage studies that make such an obvious mistake. But I doubt it. Most studies would start with the simple model, add additional factors and use fancier techniques to derive a more precise risk curve related to population factors. The main claim of the article involves searching article databases for combine terms which in my opinion doesn’t really invalidate all the ‘hits’ most of which used PCA for initial exploratory analysis.

It’s the equivalent of searching food diaries and claiming everyone eats nothing but breakfast because the terms “toast and coffee” are very common. Lots of pleople who eat toast also have lunch and dinner

bt221 profile image
bt221

Cancer is not a genetic disease as the the Big Pharma & its subsidiaries FDA & AMA has been promoting, it is a metabolic disease, dysfunctioning of mitochondria.

Look for the books and videos of honest scientists, who hasn't sold their souls to Big Pharma, such as Prof Thomas Seyfried, Bruce Lipton Ph D, Dr Joe Dispenza, Dr Andreas Moritz, Dr Eric Berg, etc.

Trust your body's intelligence which is capable to heal anything. When you disregard your body, treat it like dirt, ignore its messages, surrender to profit oriented doctors and their beyond-doubt-proven, toxic, lethal so called solutions, then you have no way to heal yourself. Even a short lived relief is not going to prevent recurrence, or secondary cancer developing another part of your body, because of chemo, radiation and hormon therapies you consented.

cesces profile image
cesces in reply to bt221

If you think about it, all disease is genetic.

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