ED injections and OS/rPFS

[Djangler]

My Urologist prescribed 30/2 Bimix for ED during ADT. I looked but couldn't find any studies that investigate its effect on OS or rPFS. Are there any?

Don't want to throw away what's left of my life just for a boner.

[Tall_Allen]

It won't affect your cancer. It's local therapy for your penis.

[Djangler in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thanks for the reassurance. I kind of figured that was the case since neither my urologist nor my MO mentioned any concerns.

I'm new to this discussion board but I already know that you likely read more research in one day than I have in the year since my diagnosis. I'm not questioning your expertise, but I'd like to know what information you used to arrive at this assertion.

Are there controlled studies with APC patients? Are the action pathways for papaverine and phentolamine somehow orthogonal to PC pathways? Are these drugs just assumed to be safe because they metabolize so quickly?

[Tall_Allen in reply to Djangler]

There is no research because it's not a systemic therapy, so it cannot have a systemic effect. It's like when you rub a hydrocortisone cream on a rash, one doesn't worry about the systemic effects of cortisone - systemic penetration is minuscule.

[Djangler in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thanks, just what I wanted to know. Appreciate you taking the time to educate me.

[mrscruffy]

Been using for three years now. No affect on my cancer

[London441]

How’s your diet and exercise habits? Much more of an influence than other factors. If they’re stellar, maybe doing a deep dive on effects of bimix on OS and PFS is worthwhile.

Maybe.

[Djangler]

In the three years prior to DX I lost 65 lbs by a secret regimen I invented called "eat less and exercise" and got my BMI back into the "normal" range. I've maintained that weight loss the 10 months I've been on ADT + AAP. I walk 6 miles a day. It's a nice bit of shared time with my wife. Fortunately I tolerated chemo well and was able to get at least 4 miles a day throughout six cycles of docetaxel. If my PCP signs off, and I don't see why she wouldn't, I plan to add HIIT and weight training to my exercise routine.

I'm not terribly concerned about bimix, but when I consider a nutritional supplement I like to do a deep dive into interactions with PCa. I'd like to do similar due diligence on bimix but couldn't find any literature, hence my post here.

[London441]

I don’t think you’ll find anything on the bimix, because there probably isn’t anything.

There’s nothing to be ‘signed off’ for adding weight training, unless you have some particular health issues you haven’t disclosed. HIIT maybe but not weights per se. If it’s just ADT and chemo you should have been lifting throughout. The longer you wait the harder it is-muscle loss unimpeded on ADT is brutal.

I don’t mean to say you are wrong exactly, just incomplete. Walking on ADT is great, but you’re probably maintaining your weight due to sarcopenia, meaning your fat gain and muscle loss are offsetting each other. Periodic Dexa scans, which detail body composition, are very helpful. BMI is not.

[Djangler in reply to London441]

EXCUUUUSE ME for not meeting your requirements for my exercise behaviors. I would have consulted you when I got my DX of stage4 high-burden PCa but (A) I had a few things on my mind and (B) I didn't know that you or this discussion board existed.

It's not like I've been blithely ignoring sage guidance for this whole time. I only just found this board a few weeks ago and I only recently learned how important weight training is while on ADT so maybe you can cut me some slack instead of dinging me for not acting on information I didn't have.

[London441 in reply to Djangler]

I’m sorry to have come across as sanctimonious. Weight training is important for older people regardless of the presence or absence of disease or treatments for it, but it’s critical for us.

A lot of us with Pca don’t start lifting until we arrive at the ADT juncture. This is extremely common as I’m sure you know. I have been diligent about it for years, but I have neglected some equally important things along the way, so I place myself above no one.

I only encourage you to start now. You will absolutely love it.

[Djangler in reply to London441]

Sorry I lashed out at you. I'd just learned that morning that my cancer has progressed to Castrate Resistant. I was in a bit of a mood being forced to adjust my survival expectations. Something about your saying that I "should have been lifting all along" touched a raw nerve and released a lot of emotions, most of them unrelated to you.

I realize that you want to help and I appreciate that. For now, I'm giving myself permission to wallow in grief, depression and despair for a couple of days. After that, I'll put on my big boy pants and move forward. Toward that end, do you have any guidance on weight training that doesn't involve going to a gym? Likewise for HIIT. I'm in decent financial situation so acquiring reasonably priced equipment is not a barrier.

I can see loving weight training, but I expect more of a love/hate with HIIT.

[London441 in reply to Djangler]

No problem at all. I’m a teacher so my foot is always up someone’s butt and I’m always right so it’s my cross to bear lol.

Yes it’s really hard at first but as you get a little further along you may become more present moment focused without really trying. It becomes too much work to be sad about it.

Or you just might find yourself feeling better and differently for no apparent reason other than subtle acceptance.

If you have means, get a trainer and do calisthenics or whatever they bring with them. Or to their studio if it doesn’t seem too gym-like, any of it. If you go solo, same. Light dumbbells, bands, calisthenics all work EVERY BIT as well as heavy weights with sufficient effort.

HIIT is no different except it’s just very intense with short rest periods. Make sure you’re healthy enough to withstand it and/or have guided sessions for that too.

Let us know how it’s working. Great luck to you!

[j-o-h-n]

"Don't want to throw away what's left of my life just for a boner."

Where can I sign up for one?

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 07/13/2022 6:45 PM DST

[Nfler in reply to j-o-h-n]

Haha 😂

[j-o-h-n in reply to Nfler]

That was a delayed one..... but laughter any time is laughter....Thanks...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Thursday 11/30/2023 10:52 AM EST

[Nfler in reply to j-o-h-n]

Your welcome, sorry about the delayed boner but that was so good I had to respond even a year later…😁