Alcohol (Ethanol) & PCa - Do You Drin... - Advanced Prostate...

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Alcohol (Ethanol) & PCa - Do You Drink? Can Risks Be Mitigated?

jazj profile image
jazj
156 Replies

I'm curious how many here went from moderate (or high) alcohol consumption to virtually none as a result of their PCa diagnosis versus how many have said the risk is worth the enjoyment of continuing to drink in moderation? More importantly, for those still drinking, I'm wondering if they are taking a supplement or combination thereof they chose specifically to offset the potential negative effect of drinking regarding PCa progression?

Some background: Cooking is my #1 hobby and as a result I really got into wine. I never had a "problem" with alcohol, in my 50's topping out at an average of 2 glasses of wine when cooking/eating dinner during the week and maybe some higher than average indulgence at an event/gathering (or some beers watching a game with the guys) a couple of weekends a month.

Alcohol and cancer (along with smoking) are kind of "no duh" issues. So the Integrative Medicine Specialists at two centers of excellence I consulted with were expectedly anti-alcohol. One said go from an average of 18 servings a week (2.5 servings a day) to 0-7 servings a week (0-1 a day). The other said 0-1 servings a week (basically one serving on a special occasion.)

I've been tracking my intake as I've cut back and frankly I'm struggling getting it lower than 10 a week. Having a glass or two of wine has sort of like been my daily evening "meditation." It's just been so ingrained in my lifestyle. I even started blending red wine so it's half mixed with non-alcoholic wine. The problem is the non-alcoholic wine tastes like crap and so it essentially makes paying for "real" wine a waste of money.

Research shows me that the main culprit of the negative effect of ingesting ethanol is acetaldehyde. When you drink alcohol, some of it converts to a metabolite called acetaldehyde, which is a highly reactive molecule that causes cancer through a variety of mechanisms. Acetaldehyde binds to DNA, causing mutations that can initiate cancer development. It produces reactive oxygen species (ROS) that lead to inflammation, promoting tumor development once a cancerous cell has formed.

The most referenced substance for combating acetaldehyde is N-acetyl cysteine (NAC). Oxidative stress combined with acetaldehyde causes a profound impairment of the body's natural antioxidant systems, by depleting stores of a compound called glutathione. Restoring cellular healthy glutathione levels, therefore, seems to be a natural strategy to prevent alcohol-related cancers. But it is generally acknowledged you can "over do it" on anti-oxidants so that it then is actually HELPING the cancer survive. What blood markers do you test for to see if you are taking too much as far as anti-oxidant supplements? (Appears there's a blood test for "Total Antioxidant Capacity" but I imagine its value for indicating too much anti-oxidant supplementation is questionable.)

Is anyone taking NAC in general? Is there any downside as it would seem wise if I'm still going to have a large glass of wine in the evening (or a couple at a social even), taking NAC at the same time may be wise.

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jazj
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156 Replies
Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964

I went from being a heavy drinker (beer) to none during my first year of being diagnosed. I then went to a glass of wine with dinner maybe once per week. In the next year returned to light drinking, one or two beers during social events and wine with dinner once or twice a week.

I still love a good European beer with my pizza.

jazj profile image
jazj in reply toMagnus1964

Where you're at is a reasonable target I'm hoping to get used to living with. I think it sounds like a good balance between occasional life indulgence and keeping risk low.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply tojazj

Red wine goes OK with Pca. I would think you could consume 1 or 2 glasses a few times per week.

DSJo profile image
DSJo

I stopped drinking at diagnosis 2 years ago. I miss the wine and I have a basement with several hundred bottles aging nicely. Some bottles are at their prime right now...Drives me nutty thinking about it

jazj profile image
jazj in reply toDSJo

Wow. That is some major restraint going on there!

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toDSJo

Can I give you my address? I'll pay for the shipping.

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone in reply tomonte1111

😂

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply toDSJo

Red wine in moderation would be compatible with Pca.

spencoid2 profile image
spencoid2 in reply toDSJo

I also have several hundred bottles (400 to 600) in the "cellar" some of which will be declining. A project that I just completed is restoring a wine bar things(Enomatic gotten at a thrift store) that holds 4 bottles under nitrogen. It is Italian so the engineering is nuts and it was a big project. This affords me the opportunity to drink just a glass or two (possibly two different bottles) without having to drink the whole bottle before it goes bad. The only other option is to sell off our collection which will not be easy. Of have parties and let friends enjoy the wine before it declines.

jazj profile image
jazj

Well interestingly, I didn't realize FDA has caused NAC to be pulled off shelves due to it being initially used as a drug a long time ago. So in my estimation that leaves Quercetin, Curcumin, or Ellagic Acid (Pomegranate Extract) as the closest replacements that have effects on acetaldehyde accumulation. Or just don't/hardly drink and don't worry about it. :)

raoulmaher profile image
raoulmaher

Hi yes - went from making own beer to tee total as I understand or am led to believe that alcohol reduces the efficacy of most treatments.

Kindest Raoul

monte1111 profile image
monte1111

When I drink enough, they call me One-Eyed-Monte. Wish they would quit moving those walls.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply tomonte1111

Lol

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone in reply tomonte1111

Hahahaha

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply tomonte1111

When I drink enough, they call me Cross Eyed John.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 07/09/2022 6:48 PM DST

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toj-o-h-n

Enough Lemonade will do that.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply tomonte1111

With a twist of lemon of course..

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 07/09/2022 9:14 PM DST

monte1111 profile image
monte1111

I've got stage IV cancer. Gonna drink what I want and eat what I want. Alcohol, steak, dairy - step right up. I've been known to have 2.5 servings before noon. I don't suggest anyone copy my lifestyle. Excuse me, I've got to go and find my cigarettes.

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone in reply tomonte1111

^^^THIS^^^

🤙👍🤙👍

Boywonder56 profile image
Boywonder56 in reply tomonte1111

Right on monte....ive been following same standards....as qol would be nil without some vices.....

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toBoywonder56

I try to have as many vices as I have side effects. I'm on page four.

Boywonder56 profile image
Boywonder56 in reply tomonte1111

Good approach....im lucky to not be going through this in th texas penal system as my misspent 20's could of landed me there countless times but as they say god loves drunks and fools.....peace and many more good days

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toBoywonder56

I've been a drunken fool for a long time. Good to know I'm loved.

in reply toBoywonder56

Drunks and fools? I’m in then! 😂👍

in reply tomonte1111

😂👏👏👏👏

in reply tomonte1111

Monte monte monte! 😂👏👏👏👍you do you baby! No man can tell another man what to do?

fireandice123 profile image
fireandice123

Like most things in life moderation is the key IMHO. Getting blind drunk frequently probably isn’t a good idea with or without PCa. Having a few beers per week or whatever your drink of choice might be is okay. Becoming a teetotaler might make one feel they are doing something to fight the beast but I really question if it’s actually doing any substantial good. We all have stage IV PCa, live a little while we can.

FlyJ profile image
FlyJ

Nice review of articles. Overall negative effects except ? benefit of beer consumption in aggressive PCa. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

tango65 profile image
tango65

The main risk with alcohol is becoming an alcoholic. You have terminal cancer, drink whatever you like meanwhile you can, avoiding alcoholism. To my knowledge there are no data showing that stopping alcohol completely increase the overall survival of people with metastatic PC.

jazj profile image
jazj in reply totango65

Seems logical per my reply to Kaliber . There's lots of data about risk of initial incidence of various cancers but I haven't seen anything about effects on late state progression.

in reply totango65

How about pouring sugar on that pc? 😳

ARIES29 profile image
ARIES29

I usually have 2 beers a day followed by glass of wine with dinner.Every morning I take 10000mg Tumeric capsules along with a saw palmetto.

PSA is also down to 0.4 thanks to Firmagon.

I do not know how this effects the PCA but life is too dam short not to enjoy a few pleasures.

d3is4me profile image
d3is4me in reply toARIES29

ARIES Totally agree[life too short to have pleasures]

DarkEnergy profile image
DarkEnergy in reply toARIES29

Please add a shot of Bourbon!

ARIES29 profile image
ARIES29 in reply toDarkEnergy

Recently revisited Southern Comfort on ice. Nice drop.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber

Well I don’t have the stash that DSJo has but Ive got a fair amount of my favorite chassagne and Puligny Montrachet and I love tequila shots , Dos Equis many mixed drinks etc. . Anyway a few months ago … Feb or March ( 44 months on adt now ) I was having some Hornitos silver shooters with my ceviche and I didn’t even get a buzz , instead a kinda lite nausea. I tossed 3-4-5-( and …and …lol ) etc down but nothing much. A couple months ago … I popped the cork on a fine Montrachet and drank the whole thing … delicious but no buzz. Then a few hours later I got heavy nausea and fairly ill. Thought it was a fluke and tried again on the 4th. Just nausea. It’s a crushing turn of events that I attribute to my Lupron-Xtandi or Zometa for lack of anything else.

It’s da chits . Good for you guys that can still drink ( monte1111 yayahahahaya) … a pure pleasure of life that I’m missing right now…. But hope will correct itself pretty soon … before it’s too late.

😁😁😁

in reply toKaliber

❤️Ive had my fill. ! More than the average bear . But that’s Nothing to be proud of now . Debauchery in times of old . Now im tame as a screw! Or I’m just bottling it all up for the big explosion . ?

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply to

Yayahahahaya I hear that buddy ❤️❤️❤️

jazj profile image
jazj

I guess one might have a very different attitude about alcohol consumption who is trying to avoid recurrence versus someone who has already had clinical recurrence and is at Stage III or Stage IV. The latter, the alcohol (within reason) may make no significant difference as far as how quickly or slowly things play out in the long term.

d3is4me profile image
d3is4me

Hi jazj Maybe I only read what I want . I look for the red wine that contains the most Resveratrol to have benefits APC & Heart 1/2 bottle per night with dinner including wagyu steak .QAL is most important time is a question ??????

in reply tod3is4me

Wagu? What time is dinner? 😂👍

Spyder54 profile image
Spyder54

JazJ,Couple of thoughts.

Life is short (probably shorter with Advanced PCa), so enjoy your journey. To each their own.

Die happy, not unhappy. 2 more.

Oncologist Carlos Alemany in Orlando talks about a Canadian study where Cancer patients who consumed 1 drink per night outlived those with 0 drinks. But those w 2 drinks/night outlived both groups.

Resveratrol from skin of red grape shows up on many longevity studies as good.

Finally, the Agave plant is similar in composition to the Aloe Vera plant (which heals wounds/burns), so drink Tequila (1 or 2) to heal you from the inside out.

Best, Mike

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toSpyder54

I should live forever.

in reply tomonte1111

If not . May you be in heaven a full half hour before the devil knows you’re dead ! ❤️🕊🕊🕊🕊

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to

I'll send you a picture Scott.

in reply tomonte1111

Please , keep the light for me? 😎✌️

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to

I'll leave the light on for you. So many people in heaven, we'll all be jammed into Motel 6.

in reply tomonte1111

My dad would take us four sons once n a year or so to motel 6 in the late 60’s . Usually we camped . But when motel 6 raised the price to $7 dad said f that ! Ripoffs! 😂👏👏👏

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to

It's been a while, but I think the last time I stayed in Motel 6 it was about $50. I didn't even bother with Motel 8.

in reply tomonte1111

😂👏👏👏

Lettuce231 profile image
Lettuce231

Isn't it odd that someone who drinks more than " a glass " of wine is instantly nailed as alcoholic 🙄. I've never stopped my two pints of lovely deep red Chilean wine and my two buckets of whisky in the evening. I still walk to bed unaided, my PSA is still falling, even though I don't.

But I'm an angel, because I quit smoking 😇.

Do what suits you, cheers 🍷🍷🍷🍻.

westof profile image
westof in reply toLettuce231

Hmm... What is your definition of a "bucket"?

Just curious.🤔

Lettuce231 profile image
Lettuce231 in reply towestof

It's a vessel with a handle on the top 😂. Pour your whisky into the bucket, lots and lots of it and then dip your glass into the bucket as and when needed. It saves the waste of energy getting up to pour another one, even if you could get up.

I do find this subject of alcohol intreaging, I know a woman who is a devout Christian, she stated you can drink in moderation, her husband let it slip that her glass takes just about a 70 cl bottle of wine. So she is a " one glass of wine a day " person, not a bottle of wine a day.

Here where we live, the glasses are very small, but I know a guy here who is always topping up, he is never sober.

Anyway how are you doing westof ? Shall I pour or will you ?

Phil

westof profile image
westof in reply toLettuce231

😂😂😂!! I'm doing just fine Phil.

Thanks for asking.

AJ

Lettuce231 profile image
Lettuce231 in reply towestof

Great 👍

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toLettuce231

Jack Daniels and Jill went up the hill,

to fetch a bucket of whisky.

Jack fell down and broke his Royal Crown,

and Jill came tumbling after.

Lettuce231 profile image
Lettuce231 in reply tomonte1111

😂😂😂, Stuff Jack's crown, I sure hope he didn't spill any ! 😱

in reply toLettuce231

Hey phil! Thanks ,I grew up with an alcoholic big brother. He started at 10 and died at 63. Booze and drugs killed him. I can’t be long around anyone that abuses themselves. It’s a sick disease. Maybe the most common in the world.??

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toLettuce231

I am totally impressed.

Lettuce231 profile image
Lettuce231 in reply tomonte1111

Thanks monte1111

in reply toLettuce231

Great job kicking the cigs . That is one habit thankfully that I never had! I had times I was a practicing alky. It wasn’t pretty .. You are in control. That’s all that matters . A true alky losses control and binges out. I’ll never do that again. A drink with friend and conversation = priceless indeed. Salud!

Lettuce231 profile image
Lettuce231 in reply to

Hi Scott, thanks for you replies, funny I never really smoked cigs, I soon switched to a pipe, sort of family tradition.

As for the booze, I hate to see people out of control, causing trouble and pain to people and then waking up not knowing a thing about it. I've been called a control freak, but I don't have any problems being in control of myself.

Take care Scott, I hope that you have a good day.

Phil

in reply toLettuce231

Hmm? Smoking a pipe is rare these days! Cool . I never smoked either . But booze? I had More than my fair share . I’m Very happy I drink very seldom on occasion only..

Prostatefighter profile image
Prostatefighter

Aarrghhh tricky one. I'd say, if it's a risk and you are fighting hard through natural means then strip everything bad, cold turkey why take the risk? I'm not you though and you are not me. Can you try and find another thing to relax? I actually heard that kava is a natural thing that can have that kind of effect, but obv doesn't taste as good. Good luck :) wishing you very well.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toProstatefighter

Careful with kava …. It’s has a known toxic effect on the liver. It’s anecdotal information far as I know but worth looking up before using kava. Kava users have a tendency to increase their kava dosage to get the desired social high it provides. Supposedly it’s the higher doses that become fatal. Higher doses are associated with ischemic heart disease and sudden cardiac death among the islanders that use it. It’s worth checking on before starting to drink it.

Just say’in ❤️❤️❤️

in reply toKaliber

Bullah bullah!

Prostatefighter profile image
Prostatefighter in reply toKaliber

Yes indeed I also heard the possible link to liver toxicity but then I thought, how any more so than alcohol?! But alcohol is not banned! You're absolutely right thought, thorough research must be done before trying anything. I guess what drew me was that it is basically a plant root so the natural aspect of it appealed. So I heard that it works by reverse tolerance... so the more you have , the less you need to feel the effect. I'd need to know the Hows and why re the liver thing before committing though ❤

Bigdo58 profile image
Bigdo58

I can't say here how much I drink. Leave it as, quite a lot, last 40+ years. Alive 11 years in metastatic, still well, still work at an intellectual job, exercise only occasionally, but live alone on acres, so can't avoid it. Fighting PCA with radiation only (70gy EBRT 2017) basically post RALP back 11yrs nearly and just on ADT again first time in last 5 yrs, to avoid additional liver impact of chemo as long as possible. I also take substantial milk thistle, cranberry and curcumin supplements last 20 years. Liver still functioning quite well. BRCA 2 positive as well...missed that li'l gem. 3 mets last check, gonna whack 'em with SBRT, trying MRI guided going forward. Holding all chemo/PARP inhibitors for the back end of my drinking career. Tried saw palmeto way back, seemed a waste of time, just frigged around with the Psa checks. I taper curcumin around those checks as well.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply toBigdo58

So Bigdo you finally dood....

Would you please be kind enough to tell us your bio. Age? Location? When Treatment(s)? Treatment center(s)? Scores Psa/Gleason? Medications? Doctor's name(s)?

ALL INFO IS VOLUNTARY, but it helps us help you and helps us too. When you respond, you should post your response in the bio section on your home page for your use and for other members’ reference.

Note: Answers are for your benefit, not mine.

THANK YOU AND KEEP POSTING!!!

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 07/09/2022 6:10 PM DST

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toj-o-h-n

Here you go. Doo doo again.

Bigdo58 profile image
Bigdo58 in reply toj-o-h-n

I have posted pretty much all of this way back John.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply toBigdo58

My bad........ Okay thanks.....I hate being a Mr Butinsky...enjoy your "quite a lot"......My quite a lot is Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops)....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 07/09/2022 9:08 PM DST

in reply toBigdo58

Curcumin rocks! 🤙🏽✌️

tad4 profile image
tad4

I love beer, but must admit I have gone off drinking beer. I also only drink red wine, not white. I have one bottle every week because, not only do I like red wine, it has resveratol which is beneficial to your health and has shown to be beneficial in fighting cancer. That's my excuse anyway! Drink in moderation and be happy, or abstain and be miserable - simple choice, lol.

DarkEnergy profile image
DarkEnergy in reply totad4

I love beer too, and still enjoying it, living in the Boston, MA area will be impossible for me to abstain. Well, you can imagine, if drinking beer contributes to PCa, the Northeast USA will be toast, amongst the the rest of the country.

Have you tried Treehouse Brewery? Their IPAs are amazing, this brewery nailed it!

Although have to admit, while on chemo, took a break from most beverages and foods - other than the basics, my taste buds were useless and got myself very busy on an exciting project to mostly fuel the brain.

in reply toDarkEnergy

Wife loves the Sammie Adams!

DarkEnergy profile image
DarkEnergy in reply to

You got to get some Treehouse beers, it's the best in world, really amazing!!!

in reply toDarkEnergy

Well than! I will try the treehouse and let you know? Thanks bro!

larry_dammit profile image
larry_dammit

Just doesn’t taste good anymore, I’ve tried several times but oh well. The scare of bladder cancer or liver cancer to go along with the bone cancer just wins out for me. But when the doctor finally tells me it’s over,the first thing I’m going to do is open up my bottle of Jameson and buy a carton of smokes. Just saying

anonymoose2 profile image
anonymoose2 in reply tolarry_dammit

I’m with ya 😉When that day arrives $300 bottle of single malt scotch and a toast to those around my bedside. See ya on the other side.

Cheers! NA BEER for now! 🍻

addicted2cycling profile image
addicted2cycling in reply toanonymoose2

anonymoose2 wrote --- " ......... Cheers! NA BEER for now! 🍻"

I stopped NA and went to BUD ZERO

youtube.com/watch?v=-ZciF4B...

This morning I bicycled 101 miles to celebrate my 72nd Birthday tomorrow (rain expected tomorrow so biked today) and upon completion consumed 3 cans of really cold BUD ZERO. It's refreshing and taste is OK.

Just POPPED ANOTHER 👍

p.s. - why ONLY a $300 bottle? 😀

westof profile image
westof in reply toaddicted2cycling

Hmm... 101 miles, that's amazing ( I'm assuming your on a Harley and not a Schwinn)!

Wearing a helmet?

I've tried N/A and Zero and it just didn't cut it for me, however, after adding a shot of whiskey...

Best,

AJ 🚴

addicted2cycling profile image
addicted2cycling in reply towestof

Took a few cans to get accustomed but considering the lack of sugar and alcohol with low carbs and calories -- following a bicycle ride BTW-no electric assist so strictly legs with helmet or work around the yard a nice COLD ONE or more HITS THE SPOT.

Maybe I'll try it with some IRONROOT Republic Distilling Straight Corn Whiskey that I have.

addicted2cycling profile image
addicted2cycling in reply toaddicted2cycling

Just had some IRONROOT straight. I was changing out the rollers on the garage door and the door jumped down and slammed my forehead above my right eye. Waiting for the BOSS LADY to come home and ream me out after she sees the goose egg on my forehead.

anonymoose2 profile image
anonymoose2 in reply toaddicted2cycling

Happy Birthday! 🎁🎂🎉🎈🎊🍻🍻🍻Thank you for the information on Bud Zero!

Will pick some up. Will give it a try with some fire oven pizza. 😋 Do I dare try Zero Bourbon? Yikes 😳

Amazon

Zero Bourbon 🥃
addicted2cycling profile image
addicted2cycling in reply toanonymoose2

THANKS

anonymoose2 wrote --- " .... Do I dare try Zero Bourbon? Yikes 😳 "

You FIRST 😀

Kentucky1 profile image
Kentucky1 in reply toaddicted2cycling

Check out Athletica Brewing, they make a host of non alcoholic beers that actually taste good. I like their Upside Dawn.

DarkEnergy profile image
DarkEnergy in reply toaddicted2cycling

OMG, this is hell...

in reply toaddicted2cycling

101 at 72 ? My hero ! 😂👏👏👏👏👍

in reply tolarry_dammit

Dam Larry! The doc told me 7 yrs ago that I’d soon perish ! But instead of breaking out the booze and blow I went strictly organic ..7 yrs living like a monk .😳

Grandpa4 profile image
Grandpa4

I used to have a glass of wine every day. Now once a week.

Cooolone profile image
Cooolone

Well, first and foremost, I would like to commend you on the deep diving in regard to alcohol consumption and it's observed association with cancer. I defer on some points though... But really, is an awesome post with lots of good information! Thank you!

That aside, it's really a wonder how over 60% of cancer patients take and consume supplements! And as for alcohol, I would think that it's association with inflammatory response would be the kicker that's not so beneficial to cancer patients.

Otherwise, as noted, there's is no cure for cancer, let alone StageIV. Those of us with StageIV PCa benefit (mostly, but not all) from it's slow movement and progression, at times taking years to move... Anyways, to think that any "one" thing is going to change a lifetime of culture, diet, genetics in a short term setting I believe is defeatest. This example would mean every single person that drinks would get cancer, alcoholics especially. Funny thing is I can name quite a few (alcoholics) from my family that never experienced the joy of a cancer diagnosis. Maybe they had the functional liver of a thimble... Lol, but they thrived drinking. They should have had visible lesions then if this hypothesis is correct.

Again, I'm not taking anything away from the post, it will cause me to follow up and learn on each point. For me, post Chemo, it caused me some body changes, one being not being able to drink beer any more, that I love (occasionally) by the way. I can still drink my bourbon, both rare occasions lately, but in each setting, I don't even get a buzz!?!? Don't know what happened, lol, but I can sit and drink 6-10 beers and NOTHING! Lol, so other than taste, it's a waste ;). I miss my German Beer!

Same goes for diet... I love my once in a while Aged Ribeye, or Skirt steak, not giving it up. Not becoming a rabbit and eating just leafs and crunchy stuff (greens) the rest of my life. I've incorporated more healthy living than I thought was already a healthy living, but no extremes.

I like the oxidative stress reference, again and along with inflammatory response, is definitely something to delve into! But for most things I've found, everything follows the universal law, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction! We just don't know what that might be, and we have little control over it. So enjoy life, don't get caught up in thinking a few months or years of doing something will defeat eons of mother nature, natural selection, etc. Science thinks it's smarter than it is... Hahahaha

Thanks for posting!

Best Regards

rogerandme profile image
rogerandme in reply toCooolone

Agree 100 percent thinking we can change the course of cancer with diet modification or abstaining from alcohol is probably just wishful thinking. There is no magic pill or bullet at this time maybe someday but not today. Enjoy life while we can and be grateful for every day we feel good...

Dannyboy48 profile image
Dannyboy48

Eat drink and be merry🍷👍🙏🇺🇸 I have been on Firmagon for 6+ years with stage four prostate cancer. I love to have a glass of wine with dinner and a few glasses of wine if I am out socializing with others from time to time You might as well enjoy yourself while you’re here life is short term and eternity is forever🍷🍷🍷🎶⛳️🎤

Moderation in everything is good

Just be careful stepping off the curb and that a bus doesn’t hit you because that will change all your plans😂

in reply toDannyboy48

Go firmagon!

Boywonder56 profile image
Boywonder56

To quote a line from 25th hour " i" m irish i cant get drunk"..... i found out a year into this malady....i was not the good drunk i used to be...so i put a throttle on the bottle of jamesons....and enjoy......will say my weed consumption is above pre apc days.....either way....slaentje' me brothers whatever flips yours switch......🇮🇪🇺🇦......

westof profile image
westof in reply toBoywonder56

Hey BW, hope all is well! Your reply reminded me of a phrase from a song that we BOTH know well!

"I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe

But at least I'm enjoying the ride, at least I'll enjoy the ride."

Best,

AJ 😉

Boywonder56 profile image
Boywonder56 in reply towestof

Hanging in westie..will not fade away just yet

anonymoose2 profile image
anonymoose2

Was a full blown alcoholic and the stage 4 scared me sober for 5 years now. And everyday I praise God I left that life style. It was a year ago that I was craving a beer with some pizza and I got some NA beer and with some reservations of could I fall back into alcoholism for me it didn’t happen. That NA beer with pizza every month is a joy I look forward to. Cheers NA 🍻

in reply toanonymoose2

Bravissimo for kicking the booze ! 👏👏👏👏👏😂👍

dixiedad profile image
dixiedad

First I've heard about booze and cancer. Wonder why my urologist didn't mention it?Oh well, I'm 80 and in my house the cocktail hour still starts at 17:00 hours.

Scotch on the rocks X 4 and a glass of red wine with dinner.

I quit smoking 7 years ago and that's all I'm willing to sacrifice.

🤨

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa

I quit drinking, along with other things, in July 2019, a year following diagnosis, and after 45 years of moderate (at least) drinking. I basically searched my life memory for things that I had consumed over many years that fell into the potentially harmful category-a matter of judgement and hard decision-making. Coffee and caffeine (only coffee, tea, and pure cacao) survived, although I still think about adding them to the banned list.

Don't look to me for hard exact science, but two observations:

1. Most, myself included when I drank, drink too many "servings" per day/week, and drink "servings" that are way too large, according to guidelines.

2. I don't believe you can overcome the effects of a bad habit with supplements or meds. You actually have to STOP the habit-often very difficult.

3putt profile image
3putt

I’ve known for a long time that my drinking buddies have a “golf” problem. I still drink a beer now and again, generally with a side shot of a good bourbon, accompanied by a fine cigar. With aggressive stage 4 I feel I’ve earned the right to enjoy, but not abuse. Hopefully, walking 3 miles a day, 40 minutes of Gi gong and an hour or two of eBiking (by the way if you haven’t discovered this incredibly exhilarating form of exercise, do it!) help balance my few indiscretions. God bless you all and best wishes on a sun filled Saturday.

DMohr011 profile image
DMohr011

I quit drinking 4 years ago. Two years later DX with aggressive APCA. Go figure. Enjoy your drink during this ride. I'll enjoy my Jack Herer and coke in the day, and Ice Cream Cake at night. We all need some form of mental medication to get thru this.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toDMohr011

Amen brother. …..

❤️❤️❤️

Also : The fragrance of Jack Herer in full bloom is utterly devastating … one of the notable pleasures in life imho. Even better than orange blossoms by far. It’s a top strain I preferred to grow for a 15-18 years ( indoor hydro )…. White widow right behind it . It was intensely popular and went fast. I sometimes find myself dreaming about that fragrance. Yes yes brother.

😁😁😁🌸🦋🌻

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply toKaliber

I just searched white widow. It is on my wish list now! lol.Apparently well known but I hadn't heard of it before or after legalization.

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply toDMohr011

Jack Herer by far. Sour Diesel. Any hybrid that contains more sativa.I didnt quit drinking but the 6 pack of Newcastle or of Porter beer etc. seem to stay untouched for months in my fridge.. Take one out to drink with a pizza and being my own man I have permission to drink however much I want but seem to quit at one.

I do love the good sleep and lack of hangover with cannabis. My body is already racked so adding even a little alcohol then the day after with even a slight hangover effect doesn't bode well. However of course the best way out of that crappy day after alcohol feeling is to do some cannabis.

From the age of 30 to the age of 41 I didnt drink. I ended up in a inhouse (hospital) alcohol recovery program for 30 days to avoid more jail time.

For some reason I wasn't the alcoholic I seemed to be because when I started drinking again I had control. Except of course those times still occurred where I drank to oblivion.

There were times when I would get plenty stoned thinking I would drink slower.

Other times I would do that and cue up Steely Dan's Aja album thinking with more of a jazz sound sipping some Chivas Regal, or Jameson, or tequila, or Johnny Walker etc. fit well with the music. Actually that still sounds good. I might give it a whirl here in a few days lol.

DMohr011 profile image
DMohr011 in reply toCAMPSOUPS

One of my all time favorites amd the best recorded album, Aja! I spin it often!

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply toDMohr011

Cool.Nothing like deciding what to hear. Put the first 5 or so first choice albums in the front of the horizontal stack. After a great like Aja can be hard to decide what to play next lol.

The Wishbone Ash Argus album always makes it into those first 5.

DMohr011 profile image
DMohr011 in reply toCAMPSOUPS

Music of the 70's will never get old. I still love it loud, and Rush seems to always be in my top.

Camp - now you have listening to Argus....forgot how good they were!

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply toDMohr011

Glad to oblige lol.My son was blown away and his friends.

Play it loud yes.

2 guitars (gibson flying V, and fender strat) and amazing bass come thru.

Boywonder56 profile image
Boywonder56 in reply toCAMPSOUPS

Gratefulndead ...mars hotel..

Definite headfone.....also alman bros...filmore east ...whipping post...

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply toBoywonder56

I'm with you there. Of course American Beauty and Workingman's Dead were good but there was something about the Mars Hotel that set it apart especially La Grange.I still pull out my Eat A Peach double album. Good stuff.

TEBozo profile image
TEBozo

I quit moderate alcohol use because on ADT and the COVID lockdown, I went from 245 to 270#s. Even at 6'4' that is way too much and I coming back down fast.

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS

Stage 4 diagnosis? Last call for alcohol! Bar closes at your estimated expiration date.

If your lucky you can get another round or more.

Break60 profile image
Break60 in reply toCAMPSOUPS

Since at age 69 being DXed with stage IV Pca in 2013, I’ve increased my alcohol consumption. It’s one of the few things in life I look forward to.

Break60 profile image
Break60 in reply toCAMPSOUPS

I’m past my expiration date which according to a MO I saw in 2015 was 2018. Fuck him.

GreenStreet profile image
GreenStreet

If anything I have cut down and switched to red wine. A couple of glasses 4 nights a week on average

Teufelshunde profile image
Teufelshunde

Interesting post, not so much for the alcohol part as have never seen any worthy, scientific good data on that, but common sense should prevail. Nuf said.

And i already do take curcumin, EGCG, Quercetin, Ivermectin so not changing what i enjoy. What i found interesting is your mention of taking too many antioxidants can be harmful. I have never read that anywhere. Time to research that.

Does anyone have any links to share on this subject?

jazj profile image
jazj in reply toTeufelshunde

cancer.gov/news-events/canc...

nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/N... (got to pay to read the whole thing)

Or just wade through Pubmed

scholar.google.com/scholar?...

This is not stuff a lot of people taking supps want to read. I think they still have their place and there is good evidence some things can only help not hurt. Determining what and how much is tricky in my opinion.

Teufelshunde profile image
Teufelshunde in reply tojazj

I did a lot of reading on this and then looked at what I take. My conclusion is that everything I take supplement wise and pretty much a lot of what I eat are antioxidants or "contain antioxidant properties". Even my beet and pom juice, broq, etc. A few are prooxidant like high dose melatonin, curcumin and MCP, and I understand from another post on here a while back that statins are prooxidant. This leads me to believe there is more to this story than what is on the surface here. A few of these antioxidants have good studies and RCTs for PC progression like sulforaphane, muscadine, pom juice, MCP and many have other PC pathways they benefit. And several of the supplements are for totally different issues like HBP, lipid control, E2 control, raising T, general health, etc.

When I am exploring a supplement, I simply google XX and prostate cancer. Most have favorable studies on the NIH and other sites specific to PC, so that kind of goes contra the generalization that antioxidants are not good for cancer in general. The easiest example i can think is garlic powder which is basically raw garlic. It has "antioxidant properties" but it has only good studies, etc re PC.

Nothing is easy here.

YYJguy profile image
YYJguy in reply tojazj

Every Body is different of course on reaction, however there is far too much evidence on the benefits of supplements such as those mentioned above. Gov studies and news information are unable to support any such claims because this is not in their formulary or standard of care, nor in their expertise to recommend. Just my 2cents.

NecessarilySo profile image
NecessarilySo

One of my heart medications says that if I am going to drink an alcoholic beverage I should notify my physician. That makes me think twice with every glass.

vkool.com/benefits-of-red-w...

JazzMan42 profile image
JazzMan42

Never a big drinker, but since PCa only drink on occasions, e.g., birthdays, anniversaries, when I get a good result on my blood draws, vacations etc. Prefer cocktails to wine.

erjlg3 profile image
erjlg3

Husband consumes as much or more. Whiskey, Vodka, Beer.... whatever. He had stage 4. He's been cancer free for I think about 9 plus years. He eats anything but pork. Maybe some type of pork about twice a year.

ck722 profile image
ck722

Brownies are nice too.

Teufelshunde profile image
Teufelshunde

I only drink on special occasions. I took advice from one of my favorite songs to help define those. Advise from "That's Why We Drink"

'Cause it's Friday

'Cause it's Monday

'Cause it's a charcoal burnin' Sunday

'Cause we ain't gonna get to one day

That's why we drink

'Cause the sun's up

'Cause it's sundown

'Cause my wound up needs a little unwound

'Cause we've been workin' all day but we're done now

Yeah, that's why we drink

'Cause they're ice cold

'Cause it's hot out

'Cause we're Jon Boat sittin' with the line out

'Cause we're a little messed up, but it's cheaper than a dang old shrink

'Cause we're grown up

'Cause we're still kids

'Cause we love doin' things 'cause our daddies did

'Cause it's alcohol abuse if you pour one down the sink

Yeah, that's why we drink

'Cause our team lost

'Cause our team won

'Cause Sweet Home Alabama just came on

'Cause we're lookin' for a reason to raise one

Yeah, that's why we drink

To good friends, good times, you and me

To the red, white and blue boys and girls overseas

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toTeufelshunde

Excellent.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n

A son went to his dad and asked him, “Dad, what’s an alcoholic?”

The dad replied, “Do you see those four trees? Well, an alcoholic would see eight.”

The son replied, “But Dad, I only see two.”

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 07/09/2022 6:44 PM DST

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply toj-o-h-n

Very funny.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toj-o-h-n

Rotflol ❤️❤️🌻

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS

I'm digesting lol.

Yea you know I like to hear all that. Its kind of like "If the road hadn't curved the way it did back in the day there is a full look at what it would have been like to be so involved.

The descriptions on the web are as you say and they give credence to white widows history. I've been knee deep weed since 1969 so probably had white widow during my time but didnt know it.

Yep before legal had names Panama Red etc. but mostly no name. I have been in the stores and luckily decide on the web site first..lots of choices. I'm swimming in homegrown for now. Have to give some away lol.

I'm still absorbing your reply. What a insiders look at what was/is happening. Good stuff brother.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toCAMPSOUPS

It’s just times that have long passed. They don’t exist anymore. These days everyone in the state can grow legally in their back yard and like you said cannabis is just everywhere, literally. Some people I know have had it bulk vac packed in storage so long, it’s turned to brownish red colored mulch yayahahahaya. They , like you do, should have given it away for gosh sakes ..but it didn’t happen.

I don’t think I ever had Panama red but it was pretty famous.

I just process age cured buds into flour these days to make it an edible and mix it with peanut butter and eat it. Anything I do too much of , gets to be old. Being stoned stupid all the time gets old eventually… the redeeming thing being now that I’m sick, the Xanax and pain relieving aspects of some cannabis strains become actual medicine. Really good medicine.

The hammer consumes enormous amounts of cannabis, it’s work keeping her in peanut butter and flour yayahahahaya. She’s a hard charging daily heavy drinker and nowadays she supplements drinking with being passed out on couchlock bud Yayahahahaya yayahahahaya It lasts so long , she wakes up the next day still stoned for a few hours. It helps her cope.

Around these parts vape pens are still pretty popular , handy to “ touch up “ that buzz when you are out socially on the town at the brew pubs and sidewalk restaurants. Of course I don’t smoke and I don’t get out ( Covid , cancer sick ) yayahahahaya. I pretty much don’t think about cannabis that much anymore …. I probably should tho.

You da man buddy .. shows ya you can still be kewl , even guys like us ….’eh ?

❤️❤️❤️

westof profile image
westof in reply toKaliber

Hey Brother K!!This song sums it up in a nutshell (or Big Bud)!

youtube.com/watch?v=O9G0emf...

"Panama Red"

Song by New Riders of the Purple Sage:

Panama red, panama red

He'll steal your woman, then he'll rob your head

Panama red, panama red

On his white horse, mescalito

He come breezin' through town

I'll bet your woman's up in bed with

Panama red

The judge don't know when red's in town

He keeps well hidden underground

But everybody's acting lazy

Falling out and hangin' 'round

My woman said, "hey pedro

You're actin' crazy like a clown"

Nobody feels like working

Panama red is back in town

Everybody's looking out for him

'Cause they know red's satisfies

Little girls love to listen to him

Sing and tell sweet lies

But when things get too confusing, honey

You're better off in bed

And i'll be searching all the joints in town for

Panama red

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply toKaliber

There's a movie I can't place now. 2 guys. "No, you da man". "No, you da man".

Seriously you got it together and have that history that guys like me were in the fringes of. Enjoy hearing. The live vicariously thru you thing.

Glad the hammer can get some relief. You too I hope.

I like my sativa cause I don't really get the couch lock. I temper it so I dont go into full hiding but yea sometimes got to hide lol. I remember in youth the best laid plans sometimes got scrapped due to getting too high lol.

Never take weed as seriously as Lake Shore Drive so get surprised sometimes. "Oh shit maybe I shouldnt have smoked that before I got on the phone with the customer lol".

The vapes are too convienent lol. But something's missing in the various aspects/levels of a cannabis high usually I've found with the vapes. They come on strong, , dont have multiple levels of brain effect, wear off quick and leave a headache. Usually.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toCAMPSOUPS

I guess I’ve been around the block a couple of times , I’m a curious kinda guy . I finally got out of the house and drove us to the coast yesterday…. Didn’t think I was up to it, but turned out it was actually easy. I’m here in Moonstone Beach, Cambria right now. Still got some “ hefty “ buzz left over from a giggle weed extravaganza the hammer and I went on last night. Sat outside on our room patio and sucked in the coastal fog , sea air and dense aroma of flowering plants, tried to not laugh at everything ( awkward ) and draw too much attention …. This trip has turned out dramatically better than I expected and I’ve been able to stay “ very comfortable “ ( pain meds ) too.

I feel pretty lucky …. It’s been so long stuck in the house , I thought I might never be here again.

❤️❤️❤️

Patio view of the ocean with Bougainvilla
CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply toKaliber

Oh my god man. Toooo cool.I am really glad for ya.

Nothin better than takin it all in and with the addition of some giggle!

Keep enjoying!

Great news!

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toCAMPSOUPS

Yea mannnnn … I just hope I remember some of this later on yayahahahaya yayahahahaya Groovy …( tripping ) 😂😂😂😂

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply toKaliber

Live in the moment. You and I know that well.A little wake and bake with the morning coffee slows it down so you can take it all in I say.

Bottle some of that ocean breeze smell and send it my way lol.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toCAMPSOUPS

So far the extremely calm winds have been off shore .. a rare occasional puff of ocean fragrance…. Very little tho. Late at night the conditions reverse and it’s fresh and wonderful. I was saving some of that Ocean breeze in a bottle …but it got away when I needed that bottle …about 3a.m.

It’s all about priorities …..

CAMPSOUPS profile image
CAMPSOUPS in reply toKaliber

Ha, Ha, love it brother.❤️🤣

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber

Yayahahahaya a classic and very true . 😂😂😂

westof profile image
westof in reply toKaliber

Hmm... I think that I'm fairly literate and have an adequate vocabulary, however, what is Webster's definition of "couchlock"???

Or did you mean "crotchlock" (which I and many members on ADT can relate to!)🤔

Best

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply towestof

Yayahahaha around here couchlock is when you consume some bud sitting on your couch , and it was so powerful that you can’t get up for 6-7 hours.. that’s the “ good “ stuff that paralyzes you. The Wiktionary ( wiki dictionary) says “ A state of Idleness, laziness or inactivity brought about by consumption of drugs, usually marijuana. “ . We also have “ closetlock “ .. it’s when you get too stoned scared / paranoid to stay on the couch and you feel better hiding in a closet ( a fairly common thing with bho ) and of course there’s “ coughlock “ … a normal side effect of dabs or iso-hash oil or extremely harsh weed. Fun stuff. Most people around here won’t buy “ product “ that can’t , at least , produce quick and intense couchlock , but closetlock is the gold standard.

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toKaliber

A mark of excellence for a hydro grower is always closetlock. Less than that and you lose your connoisseur customer base.

Fastingguy profile image
Fastingguy

Hoping to make it ‘til Jan 16 to celebrate 30 years of sobriety. First 29 have been pretty, pretty, pretty good. Good luck to you!

SteveTheJ profile image
SteveTheJ

IMHO, do what you want to do. You already have cancer. I'm fortunate that my PSA has been unmeasurable since diagnosis 2+ years ago. I have not stopped or even slowed drinking since then. Do what's best for you.

Lemonpower profile image
Lemonpower

Hi All,

Late responder my dad is Stage 4 PCA. He has cut way back on his drinking and just has occasional drink now during week. I myself had a brain tumour, discovered after a Gran Mal, in 2016, and due to increased seizure risk associated with alcohol, cut it out of my life to start with. However, now I enjoy the occasional mimosa/Bucks Fizz -- a long drink with minimal alcohol--lots of OJ and a few splashes of champagne/proseco. Really enjoy that.

I find if I drink anything else it really reacts finds on my brain and CNS.

However I've just returned from a tiny Greek Island where people drink smoke and live well into their 90s and 100s. Their philosophy to life is that "stress" is greatest killer, and that alcohol is good as long as enjoyed with a meal--which sounds like sage advice from some long-living Greeks.

Prostatefighter profile image
Prostatefighter

Ah man, well it sounds like you have been up to a thing or two then ! 🤣🤣 scary re the liver pains , kinda put me right off trying it!! I wonder what it is about the stuff that is toxic to the liver 🤔 shame, as for a moment it seemed like it could maybe be a reasonable substitute

Prostatefighter profile image
Prostatefighter in reply toProstatefighter

How often do you think you were using it during those couple months?

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toProstatefighter

Just a few times a day … wears off fast …. Think that was too much ??? Yayahahaha yayahahaha

Prostatefighter profile image
Prostatefighter

Thanks for the warning, and from first hand experience too 👌

Kaliber profile image
Kaliber in reply toProstatefighter

❤️❤️❤️

Oh yea ….. always check with your medical team before putting anything like this in your mouth or body.

Just say’in

Picture of what’s left of my curandero shop .. still functional tho
monte1111 profile image
monte1111

144 replies. I am starting to think the people here are more interested in alcohol than they are in sex.

westof profile image
westof in reply tomonte1111

Hmm... Very shrewd observation Monte...

What sex?? Only a distant memory😢.

However, my T is starting to creep up and I guess there may be hope ( for the hopeless)😄!

Ogden Nash once said "Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker"!

I have fond memories of a girl named Candice!💃

Best,

AJ

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply towestof

Even my fond memories are fading. I think we all fear dementia. But, hey, we won't know we are demented. We can just listen to Dr. Demento and smile all day long.

Or rerun j-o-h-n's jokes and say "That's supposed to be funny? I don't get it."

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