I was considering retiring in June when I am 55 this year. I have a financial advisor who indicated that to give me the best guidance he would need an indication of life expectancy to determine the best option for me to take. I was taken aback when having asked my Oncologist this question he rang me to say it would be 2 - 3 years. This would be after finishing Docetaxel then having 2nd line Cabazitaxel which would work for 14 - 16 months. I am completely shocked and I'm obviously looking to retire now. With me being so far down the treatment path it's so less likely his prediction will be wrong isn't it?
Life expectancy shock revelation - Advanced Prostate...
Life expectancy shock revelation
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konichiwa12
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My first Dr told me three years, it will be 6 years in June. Nal is right, get a new Oncologist. My Oncologist pointed out that at least 5 new treatments come around every year so in 3 years that is 15 new things to try. I retired at 56 having prepared to retire at 58 so I was good with it. We are traveling now and should be able to do so for the next 10 years. Glad I didn't wait, I have friends my age and a couple years older who find it physically difficult to travel. Retirement is beautiful
Initially told 12-18 mo. acct. wide spread cancer including bones, lymph nodes, G-9/10 seminal vesicles, etc. Well this month my MO told me I was end stage Prostate Cancer acct having used up most options and he couldn't do much for me. It's been 5 years last week. My RO has me on Xofigo and first round went well. Second next week. He isn't very optimistic either telling me I can get about 14 months more.
So 2-3 years is really low for real world survival with a good life. You may have no treatments work or all treatments work. This juggling act we play with meds is crazy. Look for at least 5 yrss.... JMHO. Life Is Good--don't give up on it.
Haaaaaay buster … none of that “ Debbie Downer “ stuff here. We’re ALL bozos on this buss ( Firesign theater ). Don’t make us have to march over there and grab that “ po boy “ sandwich out of your mouth . If I can hang in there then you can too buddy. Like someone else posted in this thread, new treatments are coming up all the time … 5 new ones lately alone. Even then you’re not croaked until the pond drains ( don’t ask me , it just slipped out ) ….
Just say’in ❤️❤️❤️
I would say no doctor knows for sure. Maintain a good attitude. Do your research as new options happen all the time. Surround d yourself with family and friends. Have a good support group(that’s us).
Continue to live, laugh and love. God knows when it’s your time and until then enjoy life.
We are here to support you and be in the fight with you. All the best.
BT
I agree with Nal, Scruffy and Shooter.
My 2 cents is it is extremely difficult for a Dr. or anyone to put a date on our demise.
Dr.'s have the low end they give which factors in "what if the patient doesn't respond to treatment".
Responding to treatment(s) is first and foremost and unknown until treatment begins.
Then if responds how long will the response last is unknown.
As this takes place new treatments emerge.
We have science (thankfully) but there is a luck factor (which pertains to what is unknown about our cancer). If luck was not involved then we would not be having this discussion. We would be cured.
Lets see how your chemo treatments go. I am holding onto a feeling that you will get a lot of time without progression from them and then when the time comes other treatments will be available to you.
Please don’t listen to expiration dates . I Was told 36 months max for me originally by m uro . I’m at 7 yrs now .
I agree with everyone here. I asked the dreaded “life expectancy” question to my oncologist.
My doctor said that if you “look at the numbers, here’s what it shows”… He then googled stage 4 prostate cancer life expectancy and showed me the bell curve. It indicated that, on average, people lived about 5 1/2 years.
Then he said no one really knows. He told me he has patients that have lived 20-years or more with advanced prostate cancer. And he’s had some that did worse than expected. Plus, with all the new advancements in treatment, life expectancies keep increasing. He also helped me understand that the data he was showing me was “old”, because it was not informed by the new treatments.
When I pressed him, he said said he thought I’d live 10-years or more. He was very optimistic and encouraging. Then he mapped out what a progressive treatment plan might look like, so I’d understand if something stopped working, here’s what he’d probably recommend next. Of course, he said that with the new treatments coming out, his recommendations might change. I was thrilled to see he had at least 4-5 options we had not tried yet.
Bottom line is no one know how long we have to live. Live each day to the fullest. One “gift” PCa gives all of us is it forces you to live in the present. That’s a great place to be. Does you no good to live in the past. And why wait and worry about the future? Right? I retired after a few years and have never looked back. Love traveling with my wife. And going to be a grandfather next month. 😊
Hope this is helpful!
James
Excellent post James! 😄
I was in a pretty desperate frame of mind when I wrote and posted this earlier. Once again the the replies have been an inspiration to me and allowed me to not worry so much. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart! 💪👍😀
❤️❤️❤️
stuff a filter in the drain. You are not going down yet anyway.
Focus on enjoying today however you can. “None of us are getting outta this world alive” just ask ol Hank Sr if you are an old guy
pCA or not!!
My new motivational speaker lol.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikaMhX...
Sorry to read this. I too am in the UK. We seem pretty short on clinical trials here atm. I did consult via my private healthcare with the guy running this one and he seemed sound
cancerresearchuk.org/about-...
Maybe worthwhile using the allowed second opinion funding ( I’m with BUPA so not sure if all fund) I am still hormone sensitive but have kept tags on this one.
Just a thought
Also this one looks interesting - a few sites in uk:
Don’t pay much attention to that 2-3 year crap. When DXed my 5 doctors said 4-8 weeks tops, into hospice with you ….. and I’m still here 44 months later ….still tok’in and not croak’in. Truth is they just have “ conservative “ educated guesses … in an unfolding rapidly changing medical field where there are too many new variables.
You’ll hear from lotsa guys here that have been going for 8-10-12…. 22 years and still going.
Judging from what I’ve seen on the group, 5-6 or 6-7 years is pretty common now and new meds / treatments coming all the time.
You’re not dead yet…and you’re not dead til you’re dead … period. Prolly a good time to get to that bucket list , will etc. but you can very likely persevere ….way more than those antiquated conservative guesses that don’t reflect up to date experience.
Just IMHO … im not a medical doctor …. It’s my direct life experience… others may vary considerably.
Just say’in brother ❤️❤️❤️
Much encouragement here for you, I was given a pessimistic outlook, but it didn't suit me, so I ignored it.
Everyone here has been so polite, but I know what I would have said to that Doctor.
Good luck.
Uh ….. you’re not going to say much of anything if he has the purse strings on your pain meds. &$#@ him off … I don’t think so yayahahahaya. Forgettaboutit 😂😂😂😂
Just say’in
❤️❤️❤️
Hello Kaliber, perhaps you’re correct, I’m lucky that where I live, we don’t have to deal with that nightmare too. Great to have you back with us 🤗
Thanks for the nice thought about my being back brother , I appreciate it. Hope I can keep it going for a while.
❤️❤️❤️
Good morning konichiwa12 - pls refer to my bio - extensive bone mets psa 680 on dx - I opted for I’ll health retirement immediately. The process took nearly 6months but seemed to focus on my oncologists life expectancy ‘estimate’. He said based on my prognosis at the time I had a 60% risk of living for 3years. However, his stance with me on life expectancy has always been that he will try to keep me alive with a good QoL as long as possible & it’s not possible to predict - only to give a statistical view based on historical data. I have not regretted retiring a single day. I get the chance to focus on family & friends & my treatments in a low stress day-to-day time-to-smell-the-roses life. I’m now 2years & 1month post treatment commencement & , thus far, responding very well to my first treatment. Asked him in a consultation if my Life Expectancy should have improved based on my response to treatment & he confirmed it should. This isn’t an exact science, we’re all different, our cancer’s are all different & our responses to treatment all differ. With those variables, and the pipeline of new treatments, then any life expectancy estimates are what we used to call rough order of magnitude at best or wild ass guesses 😊 good luck my friend - wishing you a long and happy life. Darren
Hello, konichiwa12! I am also 55, in 2016 I started with the terminal stage of prostate cancer G8 (4+4), PSA 1850, a total lesion of the bones of the skeleton, a tumor in the prostate and all regional lymph nodes were affected.. Today PSA 0.085, there is no tumor in the prostate, lymph nodes are clean, mts in the bones have disappeared by 95%.. I went through all the stages of standard and then still experimental treatment, including therapy with the help of the PSMA-617 ligand.. I was treated in Russia, Germany, Israel and Azerbaijan, not a single doctor I met on my way told me how long I had to live.. On the contrary, to my direct question about it - they just smiled, threw up their hands and said: You will live exactly as long as you are allowed to live by God, not for one day less and not for one day more! I believe that a doctor who gives himself the right to measure a patient's life is not a doctor from God! Such a doctor initially programs the patient's brain for a negative scenario instead of giving the patient wings.. I agree with everyone who advises you to run away from such a doctor for the second, third, etc. opinion of another specialist! I have learned a lot of interesting, useful and fascinating things at this forum for a year and a half, that I am sincerely grateful to everyone who makes their contribution and share their experience and new ideas in the field of breakthrough prostate cancer treatments!!! So take Melatonin at night and sleep well!)) Tomorrow will inevitably come a new day for which we must necessarily thank our Creator! Good luck to us all and God bless us all! Amen!
I agree with everyone here. I mean how dare a doctor? tells you when you will die. That is not for anyone to guess. Find another MO or doctor!!
Hey warrior, Don’t believe the doctor, he doesn’t know when you will cash in only god knows that. They gave me a 50/50 chance of 55 months when I was diagnosed,that was 68 months ago😄. Just take care of yourself, draw your loved ones close and like like you are dying 😢🥲🥲🥲
My Joe was diagnosed in 2009. He’s had multiple treatments. His PSA is on the rise again, so he’s had some genetic testing to explore immunotherapy, and will do chemo again if that’s not an option.
As has been said elsewhere in this string of responses; new treatments are being identified every day, so there is hope!
We’re on the 4th medical team due to geographical moves and a commitment to provide him the best care.
Keep fighting for your life!!!
That feeling of shock is overwhelming but I do believe your physician was trying to help you. I have been amazed how skilled the oncologists are in avoiding that question. The men here who encourage us to make the most of each day have life figured out. And have helped us.
I was told two years ago I have 3 to 5 years. Deal with it. It's the best guess they have. Did someone tell you you were going to live forever? Take out your frustrations on that person.
After you get over your initial shock go on with your life and your retirement like you would have otherwise. You know people always say "live today like it's your last" ... well, here's your chance.
I asked my Doctor to keep me alive to watch my Granddaughter grow up. She was two when I was diagnosed she will be eight in July. So far so good. Never give up Never surrender. Leo
The worst shock for me was when 'curative' treatment failed 18 years ago. I didn't need an actual estimate of time remaining to know I was in trouble.
You can't summarize the experience of the cohort you find yourself in with a single number or even a narrow range. The standard deviation might give you an idea of the spread of deaths, although a bell curve is more intuitive. You will see that some survive much longer than others, but I believe that one has to work at getting to a favorable position on that curve.
One of the first things I did was to work on inflammation markers. PCa is an inflammatory disease because nuclear factor-kappaB is chronically activated. One of a number of markers is albumin. Mine was 3.9 at diagnosis & I quickly got it to 4,5. Polyphenols have anti-NF-kB properties, but you can't get enough from food imo. Some will say that there is no benefit in supplements & it is dangerous to use them.
Another problem is altered coagulation. It may be essential for metastasis. Almost no-one does anything about it. A D-dimer test is a useful way to monitor unwanted coagulation, and nattokinase can be used to quickly dissolve microclots.
And so on. Unlike many cancers, we have tools & time to improve our situation IMO. Others are fatalistic. Follow SOC - you can do no better. Nonsense. IMO.
Best, -Patrick
Nice reply Nal!
Bro, I was 61 when I had my RP that ended up in a state of BCF/BCR. My Gleason was 9 and my doc gave me about 5 years...I just turned 79 last week!
I am a retired financial advisor. The rule generally used to calculate how long your assets lastis the 4% rule .Spending 4% of your assets annually until exhausted. So you need your advisor to earn you at least 4% which should not be very difficult.
That being said i have learnt not to ask my Oncologist how long I have to live. I was given a year and I am in my 8th. The answer will only give you uncertainity and ongoing stress> You need a clear mind and positive thinking to fight this battle. Take one day at a time and enjoy every day. The end end will come when it comes. Good luck.
I can reply directly to this a a peer, K. I am 54, 5.6 years post-diagnosis of high-risk APCa @ Gleason 9. I have been fortunate and have had a safety net - the ability to pursue "medical retirement" (not disability, but full-blown retirement) through my employer at any point during this time. Although I believe the statistics are lagging (i.e., I think we will see "average" lifespan for our peer group increase to closer to 5 years soon), approval for my retirement was a slam dunk since the current accepted survival statistics for our group are pretty grim. So your MO is not wrong.
Despite statistics, I did not pursue medical retirement until last summer, when my youngest child graduated high school and, uh, my wife told me to... 
. Other than the wife, my decision was based on the reality that statistics mean nothing to an individual in real time - they only hold true individual meaning once the outcome is reached. Since the "outcome" we are speaking of is death, it was - and is - an even more pointless piece of data to use in my day to day decisions.
I only pay attention to stats for treatments. The reality of life's overall fragility and having retirement as a realistic option (for some here it is not!)... oh, and the wife, let's not forget the wife... moved me to retirement, not survivability.
My recommendation? If you want to retire and are prepared to retire, just retire. As retirees we are faced with the same decisions we would have faced, with the exception that continuing medical care and access to developing APCa treatment is the probably THE critical decision point.
My best APCa survival philosophy/analogy is this: If I am at stable PSA and scans show no advancement, then the next PSA/scan is like a flip of a coin in a series of coin flips. For the most part, I have been hitting "heads" for 5.6 years, but that doesn't mean the next coin flip won't come up "tails." While this can be a stressful concept, it also releases me from overanalyzing things in the short term and has allowed me to live.
Since you are my age, I provide for your consideration the following cinematic quote for how I feel from "The Princess Bride" (with APCa playing the part of the Dread Pirate Roberts):
“Good Night, Westley. Good Work. Sleep Well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning.”
Best of luck, K! - Joe M.
You may also need a more informed financial advisor. One who will run the “Monte Carlo simulations” on your current savings, income, expenses and assets. These run many thousands of all varieties of possible economic scenarios. This is a widely available computer program that then spits out a graph showing you the % possibilities for not outliving your financial resources in retirement at any time frame. (10 years, 20, 30 or 50 more years for you and spouse etc.) No life expectancy predictions required as it displays for all possible scenarios. Then he can propose an optimized financial plan and run the simulations again using best possible strategies and asset allocation. Very useful planning tool not requiring ignorant predictions from doctors.
My MO stunned my wife when he gave a 23-25% chance of surviving 5 years, 2 1/2 years ago. I wasn't surprised, as that seemed to be where a lot of current information was leading, but then I wondered when they "calculated" this point from and how they could be this exact. I don't believe in these estimates as in my experience in this field, they are often absurdly wrong, at both ends of the scale, and so far its so good for me and I look at every day as another day of relative good health confirmed by the numerous tests and bloodwork results. Stay strong, listen to the good, sensible advice and enjoy every day.
Hey konichiwa12,
I have found that the majority of doctors have a belief that a patient's future life expectancy is biased by the doctor's own experience of their success from their preferred type of treatment, that which they do. Do as one is told and that is most likely what one's outcome will be.
Everyone should get at least a second opinion when choosing conventional treatment. If there is no harm in some type of adjuvant supps, diet changes and holistic type activities and your doctors are not in disagreement --not because of a bias--but because something will--will interfere with conventional treatments or meds.
A link--copy it in it's entirety:
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
What is Holistic Living? - A Guide To a Thriving Body ...
motherofhealth.com/what-is-...
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
A couple years ago my onco confided that he hadn't expected me to go as far as I had without a need for more treatments of some type. He knows what I do as well as the supps and meds I take and has told me not to change anything when I asked what his thoughts were on stopping something. Staying as consistent as possible is important. As for PSA, what my PSA is while doing that which I do-- is "my baseline". Stopping that which may be keeping me stable to get a more accurate result from a test that has been acknowledged to often be inaccurate, would be a poor decision.
Read about Dr. Ruth Heidrich.
Currumpaw
You Are NOT a statistic! Period! A great attitude is the one thing you have complete control over. Let that rule the day my Brother!
I retired at 56 in total desperation, fear of far too early death, fear of not having time with my wife and dogs, not doing the things I've always dreamed and planned on doing. Fear I could No longer do my job due to emotional and mental and physical stress.I'm 61 now 5 or 6 months,away from SS.
Health care has been very expensive and get more so each year. I currently have to spend about $20,000 each year before insurance kicks in.
65 still a long ways away for Medicare.
If you want to receive care anywhere you need a PPO plan.
Insurance changes what available to you on a whim. You have a ACA PPO in your county this year gone the next.
So ask your hospital if they can refer you to a good insurance broker, don't use the ones that call you or email you every open enrollment period. The right broker can make a huge difference for you.
My wife asked the oncologist how many years I had at diagnosis. He was reluctant to give a number but she insisted. He said 4 years due to the stage 4 diagnosis. It’s been 5 years now and PSA is slowly going up now. I was only 52 at diagnosis and I had to continue working as I was not prepared for retirement. I am still working but am considering retirement now as my condition is progressing and I would like to have some quality time with my family.
I was told 2 years age 49 , T4N1M1A docetaxl, radiotherapy and now zytega am still here 7.5 years on and have currently just finished day 2 of a 24 day 600 mile hike from London (England) to Tipperary (Ireland) , never give up and make the most of every day .
I agree Nal
If you have the means I would retire and enjoy life. As people have written no one knows when you will pass but there are stats out there and doctors have to go off stats and not what they wish were true. There is no telling in a year or two how you will be feeling and how treatments are affecting your quality of life. Some suggest getting a second opinion and I think that is a good suggestion as it will give your more knowledge in making your decision.
Hey Kon,
Please ask that doc to email me a personal listing of Friday's pre-announced winning lotto numbers. I'll split the winning with you. Here's an easy one for him: ask him which dates will he go on vacation in 2023 and where will he go?
彼をファック
Kare o fakku
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Wednesday 04/20/2022 11:17 PM EST
My doc has been pretty blunt as far as how fast my PC will progress given my somewhat "unusual" situation. Yet, he has always told me that no one can really make a reliable "guess".
Even if there is a more reliable way to predict with given recent data, there is always a bell curve of some sort which may give a graphical indication of the mean (average) of any timing. Some will go sooner and some will go far farther.
My spouse and I are making some preparations while we are not in crisis mode if my situation gets critical. Crisis mode is not a good time to deal with a lot of things like financial plans, estate planning, and other similar big decisions. But these plans, especially financial plans can be set up to make it much easier for my spouse if I "retire" or if medical expenses get out of control.
So, we are taking it day by day, month by month. My doc does say the longer I get the bigger chance that a new treatment will come out that will prolong my life. Doing some what-if planning does not mean you are giving up or being overly negative. And, we have found it is a good thing to go through this together and put things in better perspective. And, it helps show my spouse that life can go on.
Hi All - I think that most MD / Oncologists seem to refer to 5 years as an avaerage and from reading some painful accounts that some of us have been very unfortunate and lost the battle earlier than this, but also thankfully some of us have outlived the 5 year point - I personally hope that the new discoveries eventually can keep our "Cancers" at bay in stasis even if they cannot be treated - as identified above - we all have to go - I just hope we all get 3 score years and ten - identified in the good book ! - However when I feel sorry for myself, I remind myself of those less fortunate than myself that live with deafness - blindness - lost limbs - and all the horrible conditions we humans have including mental ilness - My heart goes out to the people whom have lost their lives in wars and more recently the India rail crash - not forgetting - terrorist deaths such as 9/11 in a nutshell, I think we are all lucky to be here through the gift of life - we beat over 100 million potential brothers and sisters to the egg so to speak - I think we are truly lucky if that makes sense - does that make sense - kindest Raoul
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