At this point brain fog is my most annoying side effect of ADT. I am going to start carrying around a pad of paper and pen so I can write down what I am doing. If I go to the shed to get something by the time I get there I have forgotten. It is interesting that it is really just short term memory. I solved a problem while biking and by the time I got home had completely forgotten what it was. A couple of days later a friend got me talking about the project for which I had a solution and I immediately remembered the solution. So the memory is there but just not accessible short term.
Lack of short term memory and attention make programming very difficult. I considered ritalin until I found that you need to take it continuously not just when needed. Is there anything other than coffee than can boost my brain long enough to finish a program that I want to finish? I have most of the code in other programs but need to copy and paste and remember what I am doing?
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I have been doing that for years but I forget to do it now. Seriously it works if I keep repeating. If I stop for a minute it is gone. Very interesting that the memory does transfer to long term memory but is unavailable as short term. If I could some how recover it from long term on demand? I also use associations that can make remembering easier. If I need to remember several things (I often figure out a lot on bike rides and make mental lists of things to do) I try to come up with a word whose letters might remind me. Buy celery, oranges and diamonds becomes COD. But then I might buy cod instead.
I just have anecdotal evidence, but I also suggest trying regular fairly intense and prolonged exercise. I have been doing hour long fitness bike rides 5 or 6 times a week for years and believe they are helping. (At least until 6 to 7 weeks ago when I fell on a bike ride and fractured my pelvis. I have been confined to using a walker since then, but hey it's only temporary.)
I spent hours trimming trees yesterday and need to finish today. This is intense exercise riding on top of my Sprinter using a pole saw often held horizontally. I'll see how my brain works tonight if I survive.
I tried Ritalin- it didn’t help. I blamed it more on chemo than ADT, but probably both. If you want a caffeine boost and think that might help: Drink loose-leaf Yerba Mate. You need a mate straw with a filter. That will ramp you up!!! It’s very common in S.Am. If you figure out a strategy let us know. I think it is pretty much just the wounds we get when we take these arrows. Stay strong!
Will try the mate, i probably have some if i can find it. My hubby can get it in town on Monday but that is the day I was planning on finishing the program
Poowater agreed. There seems to be no 100% solution to the ‘fog’ (which I concur for me was exclusively short-term memory loss), but exercise is the best mitigator we’ve got. Without plenty of exercise on ADT you’re probably screwed, especially as a programmer etc.
But as I always say, a boomer without plenty of exercise is screwed anyway, with or without ADT.
Please tell my husband. I can't convince him to exercise. We bought a fancy travel trailer (a toy hauler) so we can carry out e assist bikes. We actually did a couple of trips where we could ride on more level ground than our mountain property so he can ride a bicycle but he has all the excuses in the world to not bike. Too steep etc etc. Both his parents had severe alzheimer's and he is starting to exhibit symptoms, almost got us killed once pulling in front of a speed truck. To me exercise is critical. I wish they taught this in high school instead of softball and football. Teach survival skills. Most boomers are arm chair sports enthusiasts not participants.
Spencoid2 I assume is both husband and wife posting? This I’ve not seen before, or should I say didn’t realize it lol.
You can lead a horse to water etc…only so much you can do.
In my experience on the support groups- and of the boomers I know generally- is that there seem to be 2 types of older guys when it comes to exercise:
1. Those who do it
2. Those who talk about what they used to do, can’t do because of assorted injuries or other maladies, getting ready to, starting PT, waiting for the trainer to come back from vacation, buying a new gym membership next week, I know I should etc.
Also men tend to lie about their fitness habits and/or exaggerate. It’s sad that we feel bad enough to make up all this nonsense but not bad enough to change.
It’s hard when you’re older. It’s harder still when the various injuries come, or come back. And it’s harder still if we are out of shape when we get here. In that case it’s a FAR deeper hole to climb out of then we could have imagined.
Hardest of all for many of us is the ADT. We get tired, then refuse the best solution and key to QOL because we tell ourselves we’re too tired.
I put myself above no one. I’m well aware that my lifelong fitness habits were a virtual lifeboat when ADT came for me.
Still, many days on ADT, If not every day, I did not want to move much. Especially after about the first 6 months.
I started trying to take naps during the day but I couldn’t sleep and they only made me more fatigued.
I made a commitment to do some form of exercise instead of the nap, even if only a walk or some light calisthenics-and kept my regular workouts up as well.
I was also fortunate to be self employed and my own schedule. I also don’t have to work as hard these days.
So yes, I am sympathetic….but it’s just so important. No excuses! ANY exercise is FAR superior to none, and movement ALWAYS begets more movement.
Make it a priority. It literally changes your life. You will never look back.
I have always been very active and used cycling as my sole exercise. I also do most of my thinking then. If I can't be active I figure the end is near and might as well end it soon. Spencoid2 is 2 because Spencoid was taken probably by me by mistake. We are a husband/husband team. Steve is actually capable of excercise. We trimmed 1.5 miles of trees on our driveway and it was hard work and he kept up. He is just lazy by nature. He has been making excuses to avoid doing what he doesnt want to do since he was born or maybe before. I was very pleased with him today and also when we went biking on the flats. The problem is getting him to do it daily. I take the Poodle Saffie for a 3 mile bike ride at least 6 days a week. I can feel shitty but do not make excuses. Other than the day I felt I was dying due to UTI plus ADT I forced myself to bike. I can bike when I can barely walk, but now it is an e assist bike. I recommend them to anyone on ADT. You can set your pace and assist level and either be a wimp or a giant if you turn off the assist. These bikes are heavy.
Most annoying, there was no way I could continue my position in my business, I would have to draw a picture in my mind before I could even say the words I needed. Luckily it has gotten a lot better, (5 years now ). Almost back but not perfect. Just keep fighting and keep the pencil handy if you can remember where you put it 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not bragging but I was always considered a smart guy. Very logical and analytical. At one time my friends considered me the smartest person they knew and my dog the smartest too I had a large vocabulary and actually knew what the words meant. Now I have trouble with finding words and have other cognitive problems. This all started with ADT.
Have considered seeing a neurologist?It could be something entirely unrelated to ADT. I am sw developer my self and I understand what you are going through. I do not suffer from the same symptoms as you. My main SE was desire to actually do anything. I just stopped the Zytiga and that issue has resolved almost overnight.
seeing too many doctors already the brain fog definitely started when i started ADT and is a known side effect. if i take an ADT vacation (side effects are tolerable now and i do not feel an intense need to stop ADT) i may get confirmation?
DH just saw a neurologist because of concern about memory loss, spatial reasoning, and neuropathy. Her conclusions - meds (Xtandi, Lupron), fatigue and lack of testosterone are culprits. The fatigue has been overwhelming even with exercise. No guarantee that it’s reversible, but it’s possible. He’s stopped Xtandi and moving onto Lynparza. After adjusting to Lynparza, the plan is for him to try Ritalin. Lupron for life rules out testosterone. Dr. is also concerned about quality of sleep and sleep apnea. New dr. In the mix this week.
I am considering Ritalin but do not like the idea of taking it regularly and it seems that is necessary. I need a short term solution. I spent my whole life being "smart: and do not mind a holiday but I do have some programming I want to finish. Unfortunately the job requires an odd mix of skills to maintain my code that few people have. I would love to just pass it on to someone smarter but ??? Just need something to wake up my brain for a day or two
When starting ADT last November I was hit by fatigue and fog. Coincidentally or not, it largely got resolved by standing up and working around 8 hours per day, instead of sitting down.Since then the fatigue /fog has been quite limited, perhaps also helped by thrice weekly intensive gym visits and 40 minute bike rides most days.
Still, nine months later, if I sit down for more than a short time morning or afternoon, fatigue hits.
In the late afternoon or evening, however, I can sit down generally without fatigue.
I have the option of sitting or standing in my machine shop. Have been sitting lately but will try to avoid that. I also bought a shower chair because at one point I did not feel safe standing. I think that was because of the combined effect of ADT and a UTI. Much better now and do not need the chair but keeping it as a reminder of how bad it can get. Severe UTI plus ADT is devastating. At the peak I thought I was dying and thought that might be good.
I don't know if this can be valid for you or anyone else, but I have found it beneficial to not eat at all during the day. My first bite of food and first liquid apart from water is around 6 pm. An 18 - 20 hour fast each day. Keeps me mentally sharp. Keeps away the fog.
i used to not eat during the day too but now i have meds like prednesone and maybe the lexipro that need to be taken with food. before i realized that i was taking them without food and saw no problems but think i should follow the use instructions unless you know that is it ok to take them without food. so i take my abiraterone and wait an hour then eat and take the pred. i even bought an electronic pill dispenser to remind me. all i have to remember is to take magnesium before bed. i can get it in caps and maybe have enough dispenses per day. BTW the mag glycinate really does help with hight time hot flashes, i have them only just before i get up, it is sort of an alarm clock.
For 18 months I couldn't read books or follow movies. Hard to believe we still depend on a barbaric, 80-year-old technology.
In a video, Richard Wassersug explains why he chose high-dose extradiol: I had to choose between man-boobs and the capacity to think, or no man-boobs and the lack of capacity to think. I went with the former.
Is the extradiol prescribed or something OTC and if so what do you recommend? I have no problem with man boobs. Might be fun to try drag and show them off.
I will support the estradiol approach. Are you on permanent, or long term ADT? Dr. Charles "Snuffy" Myers advocated low-dose transdermal estradiol for his patients on long term ADT. He suggested 0.025 to 0.05 mg/day patches, changed twice weekly. I'm a higher dose than that, so that I can feel my best. And yes, it has resulted in some breast growth but I just don't care about that. Tamoxifen taken concurrently may limit breast development, if that's of major concern.
Our bodies need some level of sex hormone to work properly. Either male or female will do, with different side effects. As a prostate cancer patient, I won't take testosterone, so estradiol is my choice. There are men suffering so badly from ADT they will stop it even though it's still effective. Estradiol can relieve the bulk of ADT's negative side effects.
As a sample of one, I feel absolutely great. My mind, my memory, is as sharp as it has been in years. I have good energy, no hot flashes, and still an undetectable PSA.
It saddens me a bit how hard it is to find supportive urologists to prescribe estradiol. They are often working with some old biases against it, or simply not willing to prescribe "cross sex" hormones for a variety of their own reasons.
Firmware was impossible for me to write while on ADT, but circuit board layout could still be done if I got myself into the flow. What about talking to your doctors about adderall instead of Ritalin?
I use a basic notes app on my phone instead of a pad of paper and have occasionally just done a voice recording to help me remember a thought or a solution to a problem. If I do this religiously, it helps.
can you take adderal PRN ? i have just one confusing complicated thing to finish. i have all the code in other programs and really just need to piece together a new data format converter and get it to be compatible with a current microcontroller program. Everything else I program is much easier unless I get into some old working complicated stuff. When I look at some of my old code I wonder how the hell I did it. I should have commented more. My view was that If the code doesn't tell you what it does it is either bad code or you are stupid. I never had to write stuff for others to understand. Now I am an other.
Like your husband discovered, adderall can be taken as needed. Titration to find effective dose is necessary for best results. Exercise keeps me moving, but not necessarily focused. Definitely talk to your doctors about side effects and drug interactions.
i quit coffee and was going to try green tee. i am naturally speedy and coffee has little effect on me but now that i quit it might. could not find the herba mate.
I'm thankful to hear from many commenters here that my short term memory loss is likely due to the ADT I've been on for 5 years. I thought it was just aging and maybe dementia starting at my 81 years. I hesitate now to offer an opinion when discussing subjects with friends because I blank often elaborating my views and quoting sources of info.
I never had good short term memory so maybe it is just a small degradation that make it more noticeable. Now I absolutely forget everything that I do not make a concerted effort to remember. It is interesting that long term memory still works so short term works well enough to allow transfer to long term. This is fascinating to me and I would love to understand the mechanism. I would also love to get my memory back Google works well to substitute for long term memory but not short term yet. Are you listening Google (probably are) we need help.
Try Lion's Mane Mushroom Supplement for cognitive acuity. We have purchased numerous mushroom supplements over the years from Host Defense-Fungi Perfecti. All organic, powder and capsules, and they grow their own. Be very careful when purchasing mushroom supplements. The majority are sourced from China.
When I was doing radiation I used mushroom supplements for immune boost. I think it was cordyceps (sp) I checked out fungi perfecti because of the reputation of whats his name. I concluded that the company had been co-opted and a lot of what they sell is bullshit hyped as much as the few things they sell that could be good. Ground up fruiting bodies have very little bio-available active compounds. I got mine from Oreveda in Europe somewhere. They stopped being able to ship to the US but they are now doing so with a US based distributor. I think their supplements are more expensive than others.
I keep note pads on the kitchen table to help me remember what I need to do. I like lists. Also, like many others here aerobic exercise seems to help a lot.
I had a lot of exercise yesterday and today and I actually remembered a thing or two. I also think I understood my old program better and figured out how to finish it. Might be wishful thinking but who cares as long as it works. Will know better tomorrow when I actually do the programming.
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