Is <0.02 undetectable? After radiation to the pelvic and 4 lupron injections my psa dropped from 1.47 to the above. My T must not be at the castration level cause I still peek at the ladies.
Is <0.02 undetectable? After radiation to the pelvic and 4 lupron injections my psa dropped from 1.47 to the above. My T must not be at the castration level cause I still peek at the ladies.
Ha Ha Ha Ha....You still peek at women...So you think its all about testosterone...NO !Even if you have Zero testo... you will still like women.. because the memories of pleasant times with women do not get erased by zero T.
Your mind associates women with source of happiness and pleasure due to your past lovely interactions with them.. Sorry...desires linger till last day of life...T or No T.....ALAS..
the capacity just goes down the drain.. another sad truth of life.
Yes and Yes--->you are part of those who belong to the Undetectable Class. Many Prominent Cancer Treatment Centers-->like John Hopkins, consider being under 0.10 to be undetectable. Now how to keep it there? In my past posts you can find discussions, on Killing cancer Stem Cells, Summary of a large European Study, showing that 3 consecutive monthly increases---while still undetectable, may mean a BCR could be in your future.As to ladies, at 77, I still look. God made Man and Woman---may I say more?
Nalakrats....men who do not have prostate anymore...it is simple...undetectable means 0.1 and three upward spikes and risk BCR.What would you say about PSA in men who still have prostate (100% of it ) Their normal prostate tissue still secretes PSA ..
What PSA level can be safely assumed to be Ok in men with prostate ..with treatment.?
I used a European study, of 13,000+ men---they did not separate those with, or those without Prostates. The whole study was based on PSA rises of 0.01 or more for 3 months in a row---Or a doubling in 3 months, in the undetectable range.My guess is that those without Prostates, may fair better, as the mothership is gone--and they are dealing with Dormant Cells/Senescent Cells, in positive margins, or treated Lymph Nodes, Seminal Vesicles, etc.---either by Hormone Drugs, Radiation, or Chemo. The men in the study had to be Undetectable for at least 6 months to be in the study. In your case, anything left, it is possible, that is undetectable/very low PSA--is all in your Prostate--because of the way you treat yourself--->Homeopathically. We both use a number of the same naturals. You prefer, to juice, or eat whole, and I prefer capsules, of the key molecules. But my guess above is a guess---and may have more to do with Gleason, or Unique Pathologies.
That is true. Mostly thru food but i also take capsules filled with many anti oxidants/anti inflammatories . I just empty capsules in my cup of yogurt. My PSA is hovering between 0.3 and 0.5 but ALP is low in 50s.(Bone specific ALP is only 10.2) LDH 125, Alb 4,0,Hb13.2. CRP 0.2 to 0.4. Calcium 8.9. Can walk and run 5 miles non stop. So looking from different biomarker perspective ..it looks good. Bone density T score is good too on DEXA scan. T has risen to 375.Platelets 140. I still do not understand why PSA has to be 0.1 in people who have prostate.
Does normal prostate tissue not secrete PSA anymore ? I have appt with Onc on Tuesday...will ask her this. I would like to stop all meds and watch PSA every 2 weeks .As soon as it touches 3.5, will restart meds (bicalutamide+ Finasteride) How much and what kind of risk you see...if any in this experiment. I want to delay castration resistance by intermittent androgen blockade.
Nal...My newest thing is a glass of fresh long Gourd Juice every morning. At least my potassium level has come up to 4.8 after this for last 2 weeks. Ayurvedic guys in India swear by long Gourd juice benefits in cancer.
To be certain about bone situation, I got a more sophisticated biomarker test done.
Its called Urinary N-Telopeptide (NTX) . This is an accurate marker for degree of bone resorption. (bone loss) The result came close to low normal verifying hardly any abnormal bone loss/resorption. The top three biomarkers ..best ones are PSA, Bone specific ALP and Urinary NTX.
The reference range of PSA, that is normal with a Prostate, is 0.0 to 4.0. So you could actually have very low PSA with a Prostate. My Barber who is 63 years old, just had a PSA, and it came back at 0.02---and he has his Prostate. Normal tissue does secrete PSA! I used immediately after an RP, Bicalutamide + Finasteride+ Avodart+ DIM+ Arimidex. But I also had a Castration Drug delivered thru an implant. Vacations, just the Casodex, and the Castration drug was stopped. All others in use today---T=550 as of last week. Casodex I do not call a Androgen suppressor, but an Anti-Androgen, which blocks your T from being used by the Androgen Receptor. I pray your Onc. is open minded!
I am very happy with Casodex and Finasteride because my side effects are almost zero and energy level and performace is great. My Onc will agree...when I present the data to her. If not, I have other resources to continue...that is my PCP and other friends. My Consultant Onc in India was reluctant initially but now, agrees that it is OK to continue with Casodex+Finasteride as long as PSA remains low. (below1.0)
Keeping you E2 down in the 20' s will also help. There are 2 enzymes----Finasteride only takes care of one where Avodart takes care of both.
Thanks. I will look into it. My E 2 in Jan2020 was 18.
Excellent E2, mine was 20, last week. 3 Prestigious MO's who try to get your T up, after initial treatments, whom I reference often, will use Avodart. It should be a quick study for you. There are a couple of MOs, I have come across, in their writings, that make a case to use both--it is a very complicated case, suggesting other area's of the body that T or E, can be produced, from sub-hormone substrates. And I am not talking about the Adrenals.For 3 dollars a month on my Medicare drug plan---Why not use both--I said to myself, after reading these MO's thoughts on the subject.
If E2 stays below 20 with Finasteride ...do you think its still worth adding Dutasteride ?
Not at all---as the 5-Alpha Reductase Drugs, Prevent T from going to DHT. The use of Arimidex, an anti-Aromatase Enzyme prevents T from going to Estrogen. Your diet which is high in Cruciferous Vegetables, that contain both DIM and I3C, and your fat body % being low, is helping you significantly, as of now. I.E. with my T at 550, my E2 is 20--as I consume DIM, and I3C, so the amount of Arimidex I use is just 1 mg per week.
yes...I eat one of the cruciferous vegetable (a full Big Bowl) every single day. BMI is 23. Lots of Turmeric and Ginger pickle. Onions and Garlic pickles. Dark red dried grapes as sweet dish, Radishes as salad, Roasted peanuts a hand full. Long Gourd plus tomato juice freshly made every morning . Neem leaves 11 counts . Pomegranade peel powder, Red apple peel, Holy basil, Oragano, Parsley, Giloy ,Dan shen, etc. Grape seed extract...long pepper, Cayenne pepper, Black pepper ,Ginger roots, at least 6 big betel leaves daily with saffron and rose petals...do I need to say more ? Love this special dietary intervention. 5 mile walk daily. Ionic Zinc with Clioquinol cream. Vit D3+K2and 3 cups of Green and Black tea blend daily.
Keeping body ready to fight cancerous cells is my hobby now.
That is why your E2 is so low[Diet]--which, is in a great range. Where do you you get your Clioquinol Cream[India ?]---and how do you use.
where have you and all the other self-prescrbing men here procured the info for your decisions ......drugs, supplements, blood tests? Sounds like little or none would be found using NCCN as a source?
From PUBMED...US Govt Database which contains over a million research papers which have been published in journals in last 20 years or so.
It seems inefficient for all of us to redo the same research...there are no professionals to provide us with the expertise needed???? Even without cancer, life is short , and shorter, as we hit and pass 70!! Spend our last days trying to find the fountain of cure??
Right. It takes a lot of time and effort to search the research. But, one can still stay with the most basic things such as :(1) well controlled lipid levels and blood pressure.
(2) Keeping BMI below 24.
(3) Eating mostly plant based foods.
(4) Plenty of physical activities such as walking, stretching etc.
(5( Well Known supplements such as Lycopene, Resveratrol, Sulforaphanes, EGCG, Vit D3+K2 from diet and/or capsules.
This basic stuff can help even if one has no detailed research information.
BMI below 24? I eat maybe 1 cup of cooked oatmeal with milk, 1/2 small donut, full dinner plate with maybe 6 oz of beef or pork or fish or chicken, cup of carbs(rice, potato,etc) and 1/3rd of plate is green veggies...plus multi-ingredient salad..usually 1 small slice of cake or pie for evening treat with tea. BMI far from 24!!! I'm 6'1"......small to medium frame, age 72.....what should I weigh for BMI 24? If my BMI is 30, does that mean I am approx 20% overweight.? My sister-in-law survived 6 years with metastatic breast cancer that went to backbone ..she strted at least 75 lb overweight, and we wonder if she could have survived that long had she started at BMI 24???
Maley..Answer to your question is in this research paper. Read it.
Obesity...not only causes more aggressive prostate cancer but also causes high recurrence rate and worse prognosis.
Not enuf energy..but per the abstract " . A strong association with all-cause mortality demonstrates healthier BMI at
diagnosis may still improve overall survival.
" Nothing mentioned about cause.....other than well established that OS in general population is correlated to obesity..I believe that is a tru statement. Association is not "cause"....at least MHO. Yes, I'd like to be 2--30 lbs lighter...but have 2nd thoughts when I am seeing my sister-in-law and a friend of my sister beat the survival odds with metastatic breat and pancreatic cancers.....6 year survival for metastatic breast and , so far, 2 years for metastatic pancreatic. BOTH women greatly overweight per BMI.
BTW, what should I weigh at 73 inches with small-midsize frame and age 72??
not sure you needed to tell anyone to " read it" ! Like talking to some child??
I mean...Please Read It.. Sir !
BTW, what should I weigh at 73 inches with small-midsize frame and age 72?
About 165 lbs....(plus minus 5 lbs.) If 165 lbs.. your BMI comes to 22. Perfect !
if I'm 180 lb, will I then be approx BMI 24? No way I'll ever be the string bean that I was at 18!! Very easy to end up 30 lb overweight...don't need to be a pig! Just 1 lb per year for 30 years!!! I guess that extra treat each day could accomplish that!!?? Unfortunately, ditching that treat won't help lose weight...guess I'd need to ditch the potato, rice, etc? I have read stuff re seniors being deficient in protein intake.... and I don't like most of what is used to spice up vegetarian dishes....and beans don't settle well with me?
Let me give you the Protein Formula: One gram protein is needed every 2 lb of weight,. So in your case.. with 180 lbs. your per day requirement of protein comes at 90 grams. I am 146 lbs and my protein need is 73 grams a day.
BK whopper just 30 g.......so I can eat two??. and then additional from cereal and milk? Maybe I'm underproteined...normally just one Whopper! I like canned tuna on toast. 4 oz can says 20 g ......so 3 cans for dinner? I would normally eat two, and still be short, unless cereal and milk had 40 g?
Apparently not protein that is my problem with weight? Must be carbs/sweets? Or severely underpowered metabolism......I do walk average 45 minutes 7 days/week.
Have cereal and milk, full plate including lots of veggies for dinner, and usually 1-2 SMALL slice pie /cake with tea ......a SMALL pie lasst 1-2 weeks...course love it and could eat in one sitting!
well,let's see if my 1st ever Fleet enema is successful...biopsy tomorrow. Stable 7 PSA for 2 years, but latest test included concerning % free PSA of just 11%......also MRI of 18 months ago has been recently regraded from 3 to 5! Yet, with all that, Doc "not convinced" of significant PCa? Have enlarged 95 cc prostate per MRI.
At least the stable PSA good indication of low aggressive metastases probability? that's what the Doc says? I like his optimism?
Assuming what I expect......significant cancer, no AS..... I'm overjoyed to learn last nite that there is evidently latest and greatest radiation equipment at nearby hospital.....Viewray with real-time MRI!! Just 15 in USA!
Any comments on any of this??
NOTE.... I WISH I were just 180!! Could wear my discarded pants!! Others don't seem to view me as excessively overweight....at least that is what they tell me when I joke/complain about it!!!
Does anyone around here like beyond meat burgers or impossible burgers?
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 11/29/2020 7:34 PM EST
is the latter from BK?
They are two different plant-based meat companies. Impossible burger was available in Target store in my area (SF Bay Area), about a week ago a pound for $5.99. Beyond meat patties were there also, two large patties for $8.99. also in Target, Safeway, and World foods, but they all seem to all get sold out very quickly. Impossible Whoppers are at Burger KIing, about $6 for a to-go sandwich, pretty much the same taste as a real meat Whopper.. I used a pound of Impossible burger for three sandwich meals and a spaghetti meal. I have avoided beef for a long time so they were good, real good, and I plan to hunt them down in the near future.
I read in a book/long ago that PCa growth is stimulated by red meat fat, so I have avoided it for many years. However, my doctors do not seem to ever support associations of food or dietary supplements with cure or affect on cancer
Evidently there are no monitored studies showing an association......though there are things like China study, and closer to home, I watched something on PBS re LONG_TERM vegetatian 7th day adventists who outlived normal adventists by many years...though the former did say their life was much more boring...just kiddin on that last one?
Thanks for the tip on impossible whopper..better ry that..maybe buy one and share with wife?
Better to get one each. I have taken wife to have Beyond Burgers at Denny's. (Before panjdemic shutdown. One is not enough for two people, maybe too much for one. It depends on your finances. It costs a bit but once in awhile is worth it. I mean some restarurants cost big compared to others. Same for BK Impossible Whoppers, one is not enough for two. Beyond Meat burgers are slightly bigger than Impossible Whoppers.
From over 50 years of Alt. Medicine, and being a researcher, with 6 publications, and a few Patents. From data accumulated, from 10's of thousands of Research Papers, world-wide, and translated. Involvement with ACAM[Association, Of Thousands Of Alt. Med Docs.]----sorry, you are so steeped into SOC, and thus I cannot help you. What works for US, though anecdotal, is additive. We as a group, use both SOC. and Alt. Medicine. We are not Koolaid Drinkers.
Thanks for the belittlement...seems to happen a lot in these forums. No, it is not drinking the Kool Aid for a person to seek decent studies of a proposed protocol.....and most folks cannot justify the time you have spent doing all that. Was it your profession...or just hobby in spare time. I have spent enough time just trying to make sense of SOC advice! Hundreds of hours of my limited remaining time at age 72.....would like to do something else with waht time remains...if not cancer, something else will bury all of us..I have had undiagnosed chest pains for the last 10 years. Just keep walking my 1 hr per day...though not the speed of 10-20 years ago!!
I apologize if belittlement was projected by me. I have many trustful followers, who know I am doing the research, and I believe I am fair in what I write about, knowing there is an opposite view sometimes. Which can make for an interesting thread. This has gone on for years--as I do many times leave enough data for members, to do their own search, or research. And sometimes I am taking very complicated data/info, and I boil it down and summarize an opinion, that is mine. Yes there are a few people that would prefer to read research papers---anyone can copy and paste papers. But, most cannot understand the technical, scientific data, and terminology, that lately lists towards Molecular Bio-Chemistry subjects, that are are causing me to school myself. Most of the people on this forum are ok with how I approach subjects, I write on. Hope we are cool. On messenger, some people contact me to discuss, some of the things in your reply to me. And I then give undividable attention to requests, if I can.
accepted!! I had already moved on!! I'm just not interested, at least at this point, in the committment you have shown..and as my uro said...we have way more questions than we have answers...dealing with this makes you realize how tentative most medical conclusions really are......so much anecdotal is taken as proof, so may studies non-randomized appropriately, so many studies that need to be done but aren't.....etc etc etc...yes, so many studies underpwered is another Eg, we studied 100 men who.....
The way it was used in Dr Leslie Castello's research. Apply to 2X2 inch patch of skin.Besides that a good amount of intake of EGCG, Resveratrol , Quercetin and Thymoquinone.. preferably from food items otherwise from capsules. A friend brought from overseas. . He uses it for his eczema and is prescribed by his dermatologist.
Its called Betnovate-C...skin cream 30 gm. Made and sold by Glaxo Smith Kline pharma.
But from India right?
Betnonte C contains a steroid and my Dermatologist warned me off it for that reason. Cortifung is JUST 3% Clioquinol and available OTC in Mexico for about $6/30 g...whereas my computing pharmacy made me the same thing for $150/100 g. Friends in India told me Betonate C was difficult to get now as the production facility is out of business.
I had an increase in PSA after using Clioquinol and Hyper Zinc regimen for 6 weeks. Just saying.
Many skin ointments do have steroid as an ingredient to control skin inflammation. Everyone is unique..every treatment does not work for everyone...its too early to tell..but Zinc research is accelerating all over the world because of its positive effects on Covid 19 prevention/treatment. In a year, we will know a lot more about it.
Glaxo Smith Kline is one of the biggest drug company in World...it can't close down. May be due to Covid19, production stopped temporarily causing shortage.
The people in India who told me this work in the pharmaceutical field...all I know ...I thought it strange as well. Perhaps it is a particular manufacturing facility? They actually sent me the info on Cortifung 3% cream without steroids and where I could get it in Mexico. Sounds like not using a steroid containing cream is a smart move, if you don't need it.
Hi LearnAll,I know that I don`t know anything, but I think your diet is just perfect and I would even say that is more than just perfect. I have a question about your fresh tomato juice. Wouldn`t it be better to heat this juice with the addition of e.g. rapeseed or other oil? Once, I read on the Internet a long time ago that tomatoes, juice, and other tomato products should be heated with the addition of oil in order to better release lycopene. What`s your opinion on the subject? I am also asking
other colleagues for a comment as well.
DoNits.I have designed my diet based on reading hundreds of research papers about various nutritional substances and how they increase your capacity to fight prostate cancer.I have only included the ones which have sufficient published research backing ,
You are totally right about Tomatoes...I boil the tomato for 2-3 minutes and then take juice and add it to freshly made Long Gourd juice and add Ginger Juice and a little black salt to it. Yes,,Tomatoes are more beneficial if eaten after cooking just like Cauliflower..which needs to be broken into small pieces and left alone for 10 minutes before heating to let myosinase enzyme release and increase Sulforaphane content.
Another experiment could be the gradual reduction of the 2 medicines while watching for a rate of rise. For example and with 2 PSA Tests per month skip medicines one day out of 10. With 3 PSA values ( the initial plus the 2) you can calculate a very crude doubling time. Continue under said reduction scheme until DT gets in the 12 to 9 months range.
Good idea..justfor. But I do not only depend on PSA reading as it does not tell the whole story. My PSA at diagnosis was 830 and I was running 5 miles every day then. Had no clue I had PCa until a severe urinary infection caused symptoms.I monitor bones with BALP and Urinary NTX. I monitor general health and other parameters with about a dozen other biomarkers. This gives a more thorough picture. If every other marker is in good range...and PSA goes a little up (up to 3 or 4) I think it might be fine. In my case , PSA dropped 99.9% in first 10 months (Nadir 0.2) on lupron and zytiga. So it responds beautifully to androgen deprivation and also to Anti Androgen, namely Casodex currently.
Keeping cancer cells under constant ADT pressure without intermittent release might cause faster castration resistant..(based on adaptive model.)
Yes, anything with a "<" in front means undetectable. Libido is helped by T but it is mostly in the mind. Your T level can be determined by a blood or saliva test only.
Last week I had a 6 month post radiation PSA result of 0.00, which was great news. It was 0.01 at 3 months. I’ve never seen a < symbol. Are you saying there’s a difference in a reported .01 and <. 01?
0.00 is obviously <0.01. But, yes, there is a difference. Check with the lab to see if they left out the "<".
So, by definition, <.02 is undetectable but .01 is not? Seems almost a matter of semantics. My results come through my urologists patient portal. It’s a large group and their lab is in house. I’ve never seen the < sign.
Yes. Usually, for radiation/hormone treatment - anything less than 0.1 is considered undetectable. Are you done with the ADT?
two mo years
Not knowing the specifics of your case I'll just comment that the length of ADT when combined with IMRT for high-risk PCa (Gleason 9-10 or PSa > 10) has changed over the past year or so. Originally it had been 3 years standard of care. After a study comparing 3 years of treatment vs 2 years - it was found that 2 years the results were "not inferior" to 3 years (basically saying you're suffering for 1 year long than needed.) The latest study, done about 2 years ago indicated that 18 months of ADT is not inferior to 36 months. This is for high-risk, localized PCa. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/299... and another study (the RADAR study) came to the same conclusion. pcf.org/news/18-month-adt-o...
So - if you're dealing with localized PCa - it certainly is worth talking to whomever is prescribing what sounds like 3 years of ADT and ask why. I found that some MD's who should have known about this - didn't until I handed them copies of the Nabid paper. Mine was originally going to be 3 years, then reduced to 2 years, and finally to 18 months. Since some of the side-effects of ADT are cumulative - it's better to get off it sooner rather than later.
Pathologists detected Psa 0.02, so that is not undetectable.I see ladies of all ages who seem to have a have very high FQ. Without offending anyone here, the FQ is like the IQ, but FQ = F***ability Quotient. The best you may hope to do when Rodger has finally been exterminated by ADT and RT et all is to perform a well done Muff Dive. But women are women, and really, the only thing that does the trick properly is a nice fit man who employs a well trained Rodger.
I knew a man whose wife left right after Pca diagnosis.
I have been un-manned by Pca treatments since 2010, and and I have never been on any date with a female since, but I was quite used to that after having a wife walk out at 30, and never marrying since. Ladies sure are nice and I love all the nurses I have met at hospitals over the years, but I don't need to marry even though some silly theorists say its possible.
I have never met a sane single lady who has had complete extermination by doctors of all her sexual abilities.
My last blood test 2 weeks showed my psa as 0.03. It has been < 0.01 for 4 years since I started on 6 monthly Eligard as well as radiation and chemotherapy. At my oncologist appointment in August she said that I was almost in remission. But now in November she said that an increase to 0.03 is not anything to worry about. The psa level for my next appointment in February will be interesting. She said that if it does show a rise then that there will be other options.
As long as you have a < in front of the number you are undetectable. It means your PSA is less than the lowest parameters of that particular PSA test. I get an ultra sensitive test through Labcorp and mine is <.014.My T is consistently less than 20, usually around 12 and I still enjoy looking at the ladies.
They can read to .005. Used to be undetectable.
<> means less than or more than.... O means all around equal...... and 53545 is the zip code for Janesville, WI......
p.s. you're looking good.... don't fret....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.j-o-h-n Sunday 11/29/2020 7:45PM EST
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