Antioxidants are they good for us special people?

[alangeorge]

Antioxidants and APC, Pro's & Con's. Like always I'm confused :)) or is it I find different opinions confussing! What's the experience in the group?

[Hidden]

Here's are some articles that looked at antioxidants. Looking at the science is more valuable than anecdotal evidence from people on the forum.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

cancer.gov/news-events/canc...

blog.dana-farber.org/insigh...

cancer/scientificamerican.com/arti...

[alangeorge in reply to Hidden]

Thank You so much gregg! couldn't agree more I got more confused the more I read!!

[Hidden in reply to alangeorge]

It's one of the more confusing subjects. I think if you stick with healthy, natural foods rather than supplemental pills you'll be fine.

[Gemlin_]

If antioxidants have an effect it would be on both healthy cells and tumor cells. From mice studies it is clear that antioxidants benefit tumor cells more than they benefit normal healthy cells. I stay away from antioxidants.

[LearnAll]

Out of three articles presented by Gregg, only PubMed one seems believable. Articles from popular magazines/mainstream media are to sensasionise a matter to draw attention of public.

Anti Oxidants keep your general health good and keep your immune system strong. Translates into better cancer fighting capacity of your body.and ....keep inflammation low.

I eat a ton of anti oxidants in the form of leaves and roots such as Scallots, Garlic, red onions, Radishes, cruciferous veggies, green leafy veggies, tomatoes, pomegrandes, dark grape raisins, Turmeric, Ginger .. just to name a few.

I am doing well..in off period of ADT for last 8 1/2 months (no meds) and PSA remains 0.8 or less..(prostate 100% intact.) The large amount of antioxidants I consume each day has not harmed even a bit.

[jmurgia in reply to LearnAll]

Good food choices!

[alangeorge in reply to LearnAll]

Tnxs LearnAll!! We have similar nutrient intake.

[pjoshea13]

Many cancer therapies depend on the creation of reactive oxygen species [ROS]. In theory it would be a mistake to use antioxidants when on such treatments.

On the other hand, at large doses, antioxidants become pro-oxidant. Lab studies of supplements commonly mentioned here show that their ability to kill PCa depends on the creation of ROS. So high doses might enhance the effect of therapy.

-Patrick

[Tall_Allen]

In biochemical systems, both antioxidants and prooxidants are important in preventing and fighting cancer. Problems occur when patients become convinced that they understand (often based on internet sources) the very complex interrelationships and think they can "fix" things by taking a supplement. The supplements override the body's natural control systems, and throw everything out of whack, causing more harm than good.

The SELECT trial on Vitamin E should have been a wake-up call to patients. It proved, for the first time, that supplementing an antioxidant actually caused prostate cancer. Lab studies elucidated the oxidative mechanisms by which precancerous and cancer cells are killed by apoptosis and the immune system. Yet the multibillion dollar supplement industry (e.g., Life Extensions, Herbalife, etc.) still hawk these poison pills to desperate patients. They put labels on pill bottles proclaiming "antioxidant" or "free radical absorber."

The same thing could be said for inflammatory and antiinflammatory chemicals. It is always a balance that the body must achieve, a balance that can be upset by disease or by patients who think they know the answer.

So how is a patient to know? That's where actual clinical research come in. By painstakingly testing each ingredient on many patients and comparing the results to placebos or standard of care, we can learn what is effective and what isn't and what is safe and what isn't. Pills should not be considered safe or effective until proven to be.

[alangeorge in reply to Tall_Allen]

All you say makes sense TA, I know in my case being non knowing when I went through the DR, URO ONC's I was looking for the answers you seem to have. In my case unfortunately I had no answers as the medical professionals I saw left me with a big gap that has been filled by self researching and personal experiences form all avenues. Some people like to be led and ask few questions others like to look for answers and verify and if needed lead. I like where possible to verify all information. I maybe wrong but it seems to me that after decades; sadly we are no nearer to a good treatment let alone a cure?

Confused with most of the information most of the time. I think I'm just trying to do the best thing possible to get and stay one step in-front of the sick cell.

[Tall_Allen in reply to alangeorge]

"I maybe wrong but it seems to me that after decades; sadly we are no nearer to a good treatment let alone a cure?"

I couldn't disagree more. I think your confusion will dissipate with time and a lot more research. It helps to view your oncologist as your collaborator. I was fortunate to have a radiation oncologist who was patient with me and pointed me in the right direction, It is only now, 10 years later, that I realize how puerile my questions were back then.

You may get a lot out of this review of FDA approved drugs:

urotoday.com/journal/everyd...

[Hidden]

The problem I see with a lot alternatives is people are looking for anecdotal evidence rather than at the science. Substituing the subjective experiences of a few people for studies with many people and obective scientific viewpoints is a big mistake.

I'm also seeing a real bias among advocates for alternatives, especially when they "invest" themselves into unproven ideas and those ideas become theirs. Excessive promotion can often lead to a lack of honesty and unwillingness to face the truth.

[j-o-h-n]

Sorry but I'm confussed....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 08/19/2020 5:13 PM DST

[GoBucks in reply to j-o-h-n]

Summary: We need to defund the antioxidants.

[j-o-h-n in reply to GoBucks]

O I C.... be anti the anti.........ant I or ant I not?

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 08/19/2020 10:46 PM DST

[MateoBeach]

If you would like a sound education about the history of antioxidants and their complex mechanisms actions and interactions I strongly suggest the very clear and superbly researched book “Oxygen” by Nick Lane. Read it a few years ago and just revisited by audiobook. After giving the geological and biological history of oxygen on earth throughout the eons. He then covers the whole span of the “antioxidant theory”. Why antioxidant supplements failed to deliver even as antioxidant rich foods provide clear health benefits. He ends by exploring oxidative stress perspectives on aging and senescence.

Highly recommended as a science master class.

Otherwise just eat your veggies! Even though this doesn’t seem to change the clinical course of PC. I guess PC cells like to eat well too, and are unconcerned with longevity.

Interesting proposal at the end considers supplementing L- Carnitine combined with the antioxidant Lipoic acid to protect against mitochondrial “leakage” of reactive oxygen species (ROS) which is central to the downward spiral in aging leading to senescence.

Hope Springs eternal! So I confess to having some on order. 🤷🏼

[Bjry in reply to MateoBeach]

Thanks for the book reference - looks interesting, I just ordered a copy.

[MateoBeach in reply to Bjry]

Good. If you want to skip straight to the antioxidant sections it starts With a chapter on Vitamin C in chapter 9. Though the whole book is fascinating.

[alangeorge in reply to MateoBeach]

MateoBeach Cheers I ordered a copy