COVID-19 & Abnormal Coagulation. - Advanced Prostate...

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COVID-19 & Abnormal Coagulation.

pjoshea13 profile image
14 Replies

Recent papers below.

As some will know, I am very interested in PCa-related coagulation. I believe that control of microclots may prevent metastasis (& further mets in those who have some.) Clot control can also prevent DVTs & fatal pulmonary embolisms.

The D-dimer test is very useful when a clot is suspected. Zero (or as close to zero as the test can measure) means no clot. Nattokinase can be used to speed-up to the removal of unwanted clots.

~10 years ago I had a double DVT in my left leg. After 3 months of Coumadin/Warfarin one vein was clear but the other one was not. My doctor gave me permission to switch to nattokinase, knowing that I would come back if it didn't work. It worked very well - at least in terms of D-dimer ( I don't know the status of the 2nd vein - my doctor said that some of them never clear.)

Nattokinase is similar to plasmin, which the body uses to clean up clots. Plasmin is necessarily slow; nattokinase is much faster. Plasmin can't keep up with clots that keep growing. Warfarin does not dissolve clots - it merely increases clotting time. This theoretically allows plasmin to dissolve a clot faster than it is growing. This is why people are on Warfarin for 3 months, 6 months or forever. The downside of Warfarin, since it inhibits vitamin K, is that bones get weaker & arteries become calcified. Also, one might bleed-out after a serious injury.

A seconday effect of nattokinase is that fibrinogen levels fall.

"Fibrinogen (factor I) is a glycoprotein complex that circulates in the blood of vertebrates. During tissue and vascular injury, it is converted enzymatically by thrombin to fibrin and then to a fibrin-based blood clot." (Wikipedia [1])

We want fibrinogen to low, albeit in the 'normal' range (IMO). Unfortunately, fibrinogen is also an acute-phase protein:

"Acute-phase proteins (APPs) are a class of proteins whose plasma concentrations increase (positive acute-phase proteins) or decrease (negative acute-phase proteins) in response to inflammation." [2]

Cancer is an inflammatory condition.

"... high pretreatment plasma fibrinogen levels can predict poorer {overall survival} and {cancer-specific survival} in patients with urological cancers" [3]

& so men with PCa can be on a hair-trigger for a blood clot.

... end of preamble ...

***

There are 45 PubMed hits for <"covid-19" coagulation>. All since March 13!

The oldest paper [4] reported on 183 consecutive patients:

D-dimer (<0.50 µg/mL) was 0.61 for survivors & 2.12 for those who died.

Fibrinogen (2-4 g/L) was 4.21 for survivors & 5.16 for those who died.

FDP (fibrin degradation product) (<5 µg/mL) was 4.0 for survivors & 7.6 for those who died.

From Italy (4/21/20) [5]:

"Cases showed significantly higher fibrinogen and D-dimer plasma levels versus healthy controls ... Interestingly enough, markedly hypercoagulable thromboelastometry profiles were observed in COVID-19 patients, as reflected by shorter Clot Formation Time (CFT) in INTEM ... and EXTEM ... and higher Maximum Clot Firmness (MCF) in INTEM, EXTEM and FIBTEM ... In conclusion, COVID-19 patients with acute respiratory failure present a severe hypercoagulability rather than consumptive coagulopathy. Fibrin formation and polymerization may predispose to thrombosis and correlate with a worse outcome."

From China (4/20/20) [6]:

"Coronavirus has an extensive tissue distribution, causing a high number of proinflammatory cytokines to be released, promoting a systemic inflammatory response syndrome (SIRS), accelerating cell death in the lungs, livers, heart, kidneys and the adrenal parenchymal organs, which can ultimately lead to multiple organ dysfunction syndrome (MODS) . As inflammatory reactions occur in the all organs of the body, the microvascular system is damaged, leading to abnormal activation of the coagulation system, which pathologically manifests as generalised small vessel vasculitis and extensive microthrombosis"

The paper contains 17 'Recommendations'.

For those wanting more info, here is the link to the 45 PubMed hits: [7].

***

In my case, to maintain D-dimer at the lowest level, I take 6 caps of 2,000 FUs.

It's tough to know what a prophylactic dose is when one can't get out for a D-dimer test. But I think that all PCa patients should consider it.

Incidentally, some doctors put COVID-19 patients admitted to hospital on a blood thinner. As mentioned above, they are anticoagulation agents rather than blood "thinners". Whereas nattokinase is a fibrin dissolver.

***

Incidentally (from the Washington Post):

"When the novel coronavirus first hit, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and others put people with asthma at the top of their lists of those who might be the most vulnerable. But European researchers writing in the journal Lancet noted it was “striking” how underrepresented asthma patients had been. Earlier this month, when New York state released data about the top chronic health problems of those who died of covid-19, asthma was not among them. Instead, they were almost all cardiovascular conditions."

IMO, this is due to the absence/presence of a favorable receptor for the virus.

Many who do not feel ill enough to go to a hospital, die suddenly at home. There needs to be triage procedure that takes into account coagulation factors. & everyone with a pre-existing condition such as a malignancy should be assumed to be at risk. IMO

I hope the above wasn't too upsetting, but I'd hate to hear of an unnecessary death in this group.

-Patrick

[1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibri...

[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute...

[3] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/307...

[4] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[5] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/323...

[6] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[7] pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?te...

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14 Replies
PhilipSZacarias profile image
PhilipSZacarias

As usually, Patrick, you knocked it out of the park. Excellent and informative. I have reviewed some COVID literature but not nearly enough. Thanks. Phil

Fanger1 profile image
Fanger1

Thank you Patrick for the informative post. I'll be sure to get a D-dimer test and have Nattokinase ordered. Stay well 😺

GreenStreet profile image
GreenStreet

Thanks. Great post. Unfortunately I cannot get anyone in UK to give me a D- dimer test so it is difficult to estimate how much Natto to take. I take 2 capsules of 2000 each but I have no idea whether this is enough. On the other hand I don’t want to overdo. Apart from the D-dimer is there any other way to calculate or at least estimate. Thanks again.

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13

None that I know of. -Patrick

Daveofnj profile image
Daveofnj

Thanks for the interesting post. I wonder if you can comment on a related question. I've always thought that blood viscosity is related to coagulation. However, I asked my hematologist this question and he said that viscosity has nothing to do with clotting. His answer seems counterintuitive. What do you think? Thanks.

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to Daveofnj

Dave,

I can answer from personal experience at the "Coumadin Clinic" which I had to visit sometimes 3 times a week to fine-tune my Warfarin dosage. Sometimes the thumb prick produced a thick dark drop; sometimes it was bright & runny. The nurse said that sometimes blood shoots across the room. The viscosity signifies nothing - except perhaps hydration levels.

The problem is in the use of the term "blood thinner". Anti-coagulants target one of the many coagulation 'factors'. The blood is otherwise unchanged. & the effect of the anticoagulant is only seen during coagulation - and that effect is in the time to coagulate.

-Patrick

keepinon profile image
keepinon in reply to pjoshea13

Patrick.

I am on Pradaxa for my A-Fib which has almost disappeared thanks to Nalakrats describing how Taurine and L-Arginine supplements worked for him.

Would you know if Natto is better than Pradaxa in relation to PCa? I would love to stop using Pradaxa. Just sent a note to my cardiologist.

Thanks

PhilipSZacarias profile image
PhilipSZacarias

Hello Patrick, Do you take 6 caps of 2000 FU nattokinase all at once or in parts? At what time do you take them and with or without food or other phytos? Cheers, Phil

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to PhilipSZacarias

Hi Phil,

I take all 6 before bed. No food.

I take Simvastatin, Avodart & 50 mg melatonin at the same time.

-Patrick

PhilipSZacarias profile image
PhilipSZacarias in reply to pjoshea13

Much appreciated

in reply to pjoshea13

I don't remember if you take serrapeptase also?

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to

I tried it a few years ago & felt unwell. Perhaps just a coincidence, but I have not tried it again.

-Patrick

Nalakrats is a fan.

PhilipSZacarias profile image
PhilipSZacarias

I should have mentioned that the health status of the lungs may also be a factor (COPD, etc). Although asthmatics were underrepresented, inflammation and damage in the lungs due to the exposure to PM 2.5 particulates may be a factor. Just a theory. Cheers, Phil

PhilipSZacarias profile image
PhilipSZacarias

By the way, I did a quick and dirty analysis of infection and death rates in January, February and March (worldmeter data) vs PM 2.5u (Wikipedia) historical records for major cities and found no correlation. So, there goes that theory. Cheers, Phil

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