Some will not be happy about the evidence from this first prospective interventional trial for increasing vegetable intake >/= 7 servings per day vs. standard diet controls.
"More Veggies No Help in Active Surveillance"
Findings Call Into Question Guideline-Recommended Dietary Advice
"Eating more vegetables during active surveillance (AS) for early-stage prostate can- cer (PCa) failed to reduce disease progression, results of a randomized trial showed. “Among nearly 500 men in the MEAL study, those told to consume seven or more servings of vegetables per day had a similar time to progression as a control group that received usual dietary advice (adjusted Hazard Ratio [HR] 0.97, 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.76- 1.25),” reported J. Kellogg Parsons, MD, MHS, of UC San Diego Moores Comprehen- sive Cancer Center in La Jolla, CA, and colleagues.
As outlined in JAMA (Vol. 323, pp. 140-148, 2020), 43.5% of those in the inter- vention arm were free of disease progression at two years – defined as a PSA in- creasing to 10 ng/mL or above, a doubling of PSA in under three years, or tumor upgrading on biopsy – vs. 41.4% of the control arm, a non-significant difference.
At the two-year follow-up biopsy, 89.9% were free of tumor upgrading in the inter- vention arm vs. 90.2% of men in the control arm, also a non-significant difference.
“The behavioral intervention in this study produced ro- bust, sustained increases in carotenoid, cruciferous-rich, and leafy green vegetable intake for two years, but did not significantly reduce the risk of clinical progression,” Parsons’ group wrote. “These data fail to support prevailing assertions in evidence-based clinical guidelines and the popular media that diets high in micronutrient-enriched vegetables improve cancer- specific outcomes among prostate cancer survivors.”
By one year, the intervention group reported increases in their average daily vegetable consumption (2.43 vs. 0.45 servings), cruciferous intake (43.10 g vs. 6.44 g), and total carotenoids (13,839.31 μg vs. 2,030.79 μg, P<0.001 for all), with plasma carotenoids measured at one year con- firming these self-reported data. And these gains were sustained at two years.
Clinical guidelines, based largely on expert opinion and observational data, suggest that diets high in vegetable consumption could reduce the risk for prostate cancer progression or death. Yet findings from a number of trials – testing vitamin E, C, and selenium, fish oil, and now MEAL, among others – have failed to show im- proved cancer outcomes with dietary interventions.
“Enthusiasm for diet-based cancer interventions remains high, driven by assumptions of causality made from epi- demiological data,” Parsons’ team asserted. “The over dependence of PCa nutrition guidelines on observational studies with uncertain clinical validity suggests a need to shift nutritional research toward definitive random- ized clinical trials.”
From 2011 to 2015, the MEAL (Men’s Eating and Living) study randomized 478 men ages 50 to 80 with early prostate adenocarcinoma across 91 clinics in the U.S. to a telephone intervention (n=237) recommending the consumption of seven or more vegetables per day or to usual care (n=241), consisting of written information on PCa and diet.
Participants had an average age of 64 years, and most were white (80%). Men were
excluded if they had clinical disease stage greater than cT2a or a PSA level of 10 ng/ mL or above (mean PSA was 4.9 ng/mL).
The authors concluded that the “findings do not support use of this intervention to decrease PCa progression in this population,” but cautioned that the trial “may have been underpowered to identify a clinically important difference.”
We had a lot of discussion about meat eating and veggy/fruit eating in past posts. Those who want to eat their meat or junk food let them have it. I am continuing with my healthy, plant based diet.
ADT tends to increase cholesterol , blood sugar and cause obesity (belly fat) In my case ,
all these three bad things have improved significantly and that's enough evidence for me to keep being vegetarian.. My body weight is close to my ideal weight now. Lipids WNL and blood pressure not very high. Skin and hairs look better due to anti oxidant and anti inflammatory effects of vegetables and fruits. Meat increases systemic inflammation. I have Potassium level 4.1 now.. It was being decreased by zytiga before. I do not like to eat the dead animal body parts mixed with their blood, urine and body fluids nicely cut and wrapped in plastic . But if you love these, fine with me.
Read what the last line of this fake research reads::::it reads:
"Several authors of this research article disclosed financial interest with many pharmaceutical companies:
Will you believe research conducted by Big Pharma's paid pimps ? I will not...
Basically, the message to gullible Americans is " You keep eating your junk food..we will keep selling you $12000 a month pills and keep making billions..." "If you find out that lot of chronic diseases can be treated with diet and physical excercise...you will be less sick...and our revenues and profits will plummet....so remain stupid and believe our fake research"
Agree. You eat what you like..I eat what I like. Your 30 supplements are keeping your inflammation down which in part is caused by meat diet. You call them supplements ..I call them Herbs and spices filled in capsules. I take 21 of those herbs and spices in capsule /powder form .
I still prefer to use my term : Herbs and Spices.. CRP=0.2 , PSA 0.4, AST10, ALT 18,ALP 57. LDH 129. Prolactin 9.2. Cr 0.9 , weight 145 lbs. Hb 14.4 Albumin 4.2 ,No symptoms, No side effects.presently ...Love my herbs and spices...Guru Nalakrats
By the way..Guru..does any of this good stuff come from flesh of animals ?
For what it’s worth , my MO was never sold on dietary changes for the thousands of PC patients that are seen at his practice (Prostate Oncology specialists). But he changed his mind recently. The biggest reason was what he was seeing in his practice. Those that went on a plant based diet (not based upon his advise) would literally see their PSA begin to go down within 30 days with no other change in their treatments. This from men whose psa was going up consistently. He also says that the amino acids you speak about found in meats, are what is used to bind to PC cancer cells for imaging implying that’s what feeds the cancer. Not sure it means anything but I’ve stopped eating all meats and chicken. The only thing I’m certain of is we won’t resolve this issue here.
Schway...congratulations...you made a great choice as plant based food helps with many chronic health problems due to their anti oxidant/anti inflammatory action.
I have all but cut red meat but still eat chicken,turkey and fish. Strange thing I have had an 1 egg in the morning with my breakfast for the fat soluble vitamins, last check on cholesterol shows a decrease of 7 points with no change in the LDL numbers, walking between 10 to 17 miles a week has upped the HDL.
Kellogg "Kelly" Parsons put a lot of work into this study over the last dozen or so years. I posted an interview with him a while back. The idea that he would be involved with a "fake research" is preposterous IMO. What would be the point?
He took solace in the fact that the study design was solid, in that there was a high level of compliance throughout.
& how would BigPharma benefit? Men on active surveillance do not use PCa drugs.
I do wish that people who dislike the results of a study would not post derogatory comments.
If dietary modification in patients with PCa on active surveillance has no effect on outcome, would we expect any benefit with advanced disease? I don't think we can extrapolate.
How did the modifications affect other heath issues? Perhaps Kelly will follow up.
Nala...If God had a choice he would be vegetarian..because its a all loving, kind God who is "pro life" ...and have full compassion towards all animals.
God is not stupid ...He/She does not define pro-life as "life of a fetus" only.
No more religious stuff...not good fro harmony of our forum. So, I stop.
Food does not cure cancer but helps the body fight it but some things like red meat aggravates the immune system in my opinion. Eat a balanced diet, take supplements to help and get the excercise to help the body fight and help your mental health.
I get plenty of protein and aminos from the drink I make. Brewers yeast, organic seeds, chia, sesame--both black and golden, flax, sunflower and pumpkin seeds. I also add walnuts, almonds and raw wheat germ. As for supplement powders, maximum Vibrance, Green Vibrance and Sun Warrior protein Classic Plus which has the aminos. There are some other things--part of MY proprietary blend--LOL! Top secret? Nahh! 10 ounces of frozen blueberries, a heaping teaspoon of cacao. Almost all ingredients are organic. The wheat germ isn't.
I use the drink to wash down my supps!
That drink has changed in some ways over the years--since 1981. Before whey protein when the bodybuilders were eating baby food before during and after their workouts as an easily digestible form of protein that wouldn't interfere with their workouts. I was getting protein and aminos just from the brewers yeast not to mention--yes--back then raw eggs too!
That's fine. There are many open ends. Just eating more vegetables?
Dr. Ruth Heidrich has had quite the story.
I'm glad for whatever works for someone. The placebo effect is powerful. The data from the "Blue Zones" is irrefutable and yet I have known people in their late 80's, smoking a couple packs a day, hacking up a "lunger" from the third lobe of the right lung and expectorating a thick, brown substance that could probably be used to plug a leak--die quickly from a heart attack! Beats years of prostate cancer treatments and pains! Unfiltered Camel anyone?
A friend who was a firefighter retiring as chief was informed by his doctor after a routine physical that he needed a specialist--lung cancer. He was told that he might die as quickly as in a month! he really hadn't felt badly which I thought was unusual but seems to be not uncommon. He was dead in about a month! The power of suggestion?
An orthopedic doctor who had a family practice but did surgery as well was quite popular in the town I grew up in. When talking about him after he passed it was noted that he'd give you a shot or prescription or both and say in no uncertain terms that you'd be better in X days. One in the discussion suggested that we felt that we'd better ---- get BETTER---or else! Doc Murray just had that way about him. We decided that the force of his personality did as much good if not more than the pills and shots!
That is the "slice of life' for the day--I think--
Someone else brought this study to the forum. It is a flawed study. The monitors simply told the group to eat more vegetables. It says nothing about this group NOT eating meat. They just ate more vegetables. The study lasted 2 years. I would not expect any difference in that short amount of time.
Being a vegetarian doesn't cure cancer it reduces your odds over the long term. If you have cancer being a vegetarian may increase your odds over the long term.
Sad to say, this is the reality so I hope that those who are spending their last days in becoming mad scientists by concocting a wild assortment of supplements and foods, will realize that it is time better spent in living large with the time you have left. Prostate cancer is indeed a monster of epic proportions in all senses and there is NO easy fix, no cure when you have advanced prostate cancer.
Fight hard, fight as long as you can, but focus on quality of life with your remaining days, my friends.
I am stopping because I do not want to engage with any grumpy...guy who gets agitated and wants to create conflict. I am not forcing anyone to eat healthy diet. You are distorting my message. This type of unnecessary aggression is not good at age 77.
I am actually sure you are mostly right. I am not religious. I do remember the sacrifices of goats and lambs. I don't remember sacrifices of peaches and cauliflowers. RE: your urine comment. Do you think the people in the cauliflower fields aren't doing their business out there? And the rice paddies! Birth, life and death, it's all a messy business.
Mmm
“The authors” only plants have cancer fighting qualities , meat and dairy have none.
All of the food above
It’s a great country in that we can all follow our own beliefs and eating habits . Why would anyone be unhappy with you ? . This is about the hundredth times I’ve seen this moot argument against veggies .. study just on national news that chicken may promote cancer pc specifically .
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Vegan Shmegan
Phase 1 trial shows promising results for fractionated dose of 225Ac-J591 in PCa treatment
Nested case control study shows association between serum choline, betaine, phenylaceglutamine, etc and lethal PCa
