Due to the interest -- added info on capsaicin!--Plus other supps!

[Currumpaw]

I have been taking a swig of hot sauce, half the bottle, or a heaping teaspoon of cayenne pepper in the morning for nearly 3 years after reading seeing Dr. Klotz in the YouTube video.

The original link I posted yesterday--

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Provided some interesting facts to bolster that which Dr. Klotz presented in this YouTube video at about the 14 minute mark: The video --

youtu.be/-JpHkqg8j-8(Not working as expected?)

Dr. Laurence Klotz has a long and distinguished career. A little bio--more is online:

cancer.ca/en/about-us/our-r...

pjoshea13 in a post mentioned that Dr. Klotz is involved in a study using capsaicin to treat prostate cancer.

In addition Ayurvedic medicine uses capsaicin to treat prostate cancer:

ayurtimes.com/capsaicin-ben...

An excerpt from the article:

Prevents Cancer

The consumption of capsaicin can contribute in treating certain cancers such as prostate cancer by keeping carcinogens away from getting imbibed with DNA.

Three divergent sources don't you think?

About four years ago on a different site, I discussed Dr. Greger's YouTube video about a study funded by a non profit that found that combinations of four supplements were effective to slow prostate cancer killing the cancer cells. In the study blood drawn from the men taking the supp was drizzled on cultured prostate cancer cells. Sort of a combination in vitro, in vivo type of experiment which I considered made the study much more relevant than drizzling an extract on the cancer cells. Separately at larger amounts the four supplements were mostly ineffective. Combined at smaller amounts the supplements killed cancer cells. Non profit--funding was expended--the study ended before any other supps could be added to the four found to be effective.

I mentioned this study several times--maybe more than several and posted the link to Dr. Greger's YouTube video. Lo and behold! Within a year or so A company was manufacturing a supp using these four ingredients and a noted uro also began selling the combo! Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not?

The four ingredients? Curcumin, (not turmeric), pomegranate, green tea and cruciferous extract. Too bad a fifth ingredient, sixth ingredient and so on couldn't be tried because of lack of funding--but how much money is made selling green tea and other plant extracts and dried plants?

I believe that some of the more aggressive cancer cells survive what we supplement with. I believe that we can extend our lives and the quality of our lives by prudently and intelligently supplementing a reasonable diet.

Diet and supplementation should have three goals.

Cleansing the body.

There is more than one way to do that. Because of the results of my heavy metals testing I had chelation therapy which is also beneficial for anyone with atherosclerosis. Some supplements to promote liver health to get it functioning at it's optimal level.

Strengthening the immune system.

Starts in the bone marrow. When running or walking briskly there are small vibrations transmitted through the skeletal system stimulating the body to deposit minerals in the bones. Discussing this with my oncologist we are in agreement that this may also strengthen the immune system by stimulating the production of healthy bone marrow.

Certain supps such as PSK, or Turkey Tail mushroom. The Japanese have been "prescribing" PSK for chemo patients for decades to strengthen the patient's immune systems. Chemo weakens immune systems.

The anti-inflammatory supplements and the cancer killers.

That goes back to the four supps in the Dr. Greger video. Other supps? There are many and diet is important as well.

The three goals of lifestyle and diet for those of us who have or have had cancer would be cleansing, strengthening the immune system and eliminating foods that feed cancer and eating foods and taking supps that suppress and kill cancer.

Cancer doesn't like oxygen. Something like Cell Food which is widely accepted in Japan and was, I believe, formulated by one of the scientists that worked on the Manhattan Project. He formulated it for a reason.

Currumpaw

[pjoshea13]

Klotz-Capsaicin:

Trial: clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...

Papers:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/260...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/253...

-Patrick

[vforvendetta in reply to pjoshea13]

Did I miss the results from the clinical trial? I could not find where they were posted.

[pjoshea13 in reply to vforvendetta]

Nothing on PubMed as yet. -Patrick

[Kevinski65 in reply to pjoshea13]

I have been diagnosed in 2012. I take Lupron & Xtandi. I also took supplements. Everything u can think of 8 at a time. I'm stage 4 m1 psa 31 at diagnosis doubling 5 mo. I just took 4 mushroom 🍄 capsules and taurine powder. I also take Zometa , Celebrex, several antidepressants , Klonopin at nite and gabapentin. My psa has stayed at .02 for years. It's difficult for me now because NIH is closing the study where I get Xtandi. Medicare pay all but 750 month copay. I may have to go on abaratirone. I have high blood pressure so the steroid might make that hard to control. Atenolol does the job now. I am incredulous coming on this blog and reading how little time people have, all the treatments they've been through, how much they fought, and ultimately went 4 years tops. Some diagnosed in their 50's . I was 59, now 69. I guess the experts don't know why this happens; long remission, short remission. Anyway good luck too all. Keep fighting, I'm still waiting for the shoe to drop as it does for everyone.

[pjoshea13]

A comment on the mice fed a high-fat diet. & obesity.

Virtually all of the mice-diet-PCa studies show that high fat diets are lethal.

Along came Dr. Steve Freedland who wondered whether the type of fat was important. He discovered that mouse chow mostly has corn oil - a pro-inflammatory fat. How many men reading this have corn oil in their diet? Men with PCa seem to learn early on that omega-6 loaded fats are to be avoided.

Anyway, Freedland repeated the experiment that had prompted his question, but used an inflammation-neutral fat. I think that one arm consumed a 10% fat diet, while the other was at 30%. His study did not replicate the results of the other. In Freedland's study, fat was not a PCa accelerant.

But we are bombarded with information regarding obesity & poor survival, where someone like Klotz warns about eating at McDonalds. As though one needs to eat a low-fat diet to lose weight. I believe that the obesity epidemic in the U.S. & U.K. has a lot to do with people trying to follow the food pyramids in those countries - carbs at the base, fats at the apex.

Dr. Myers bought into the fat idea at first, but observed that his 10% fat patients didn't do well. He switched to the 40% fat Mediterranean diet. He looks a lot slimmer in his vlog posts than Dr Klotz.

-Patrick

[Currumpaw in reply to pjoshea13]

Hey pjoshea13!

Olive oil on cooked vegetables increases their absorption--but you knew that.

I take a tablespoon of black seed oil daily. It has a long history of fighting inflammation.

Occasionally I take a tablespoon of Pumpkinol. Besides cold pressed pumpkin seed oil it also has some fennel oil, coriander oil, wild rosemary oil and wild oregano oil blended into it.

When Dr. McDougall designed the vegan diet that helped Dr. Ruth Heidrich beat cancer without radiation or chemo despite metastases to some ribs these oils perhaps didn't have the data base they now have. Avoiding oil was at that time was prudent and the correct decision simply because the oil that was heavily promoted at that time as a healthy choice was corn oil.

My herbalist who is in his 80's said that when he started his business it was --very slow! He said he viewed almost as if he was a witch doctor. He is doing well now and has quite the rep.

I remember that in the late 70's the first "Health Food" stores appeared. A market on the East Side of Providence began selling organic foods. News about it spread by word of mouth--no computers. Things have changed.

Thanks for the info about Dr. Klotz and the capsaicin study. He is going in a little low with two 40,000 HU capsules daily.

Capsaicin seems to work synergistically with some of the other things that grow in dirt. That doesn't seem to be being taken into account.

To be in the study one has to agree to the antique TRUS biopsy.

The holidays have a way of delaying things. I'll guess that the results will show after the first of the year.

Thank you for posting the data and news that you have.

Currumpaw

[j-o-h-n]

If I were Dr. Klotz, I think the first thing I would do is change my name to Dr. Schlemiel.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 11/25/2019 5:30 PM EST

[Murph256 in reply to j-o-h-n]

That reminds of the guy, Dr. Laurence Klotz. He hated his name so he changed it...to Dr. Larry Klotz. Old joke....

[j-o-h-n in reply to Murph256]

Old but still good......... like many of us here............

Thank you I needed that!!!

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 11/26/2019 2:16 PM EST

[dockam in reply to j-o-h-n]

youtu.be/0cW7F6VlQc8(Not working as expected?)

[j-o-h-n in reply to dockam]

LOL Thank you.... When my company let me go they said it would take 3 guys to replace me..... I thought they meant Harpo, Chico and Groucho not Larry, Curly and Moe....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 04/29/2022 7:15 PM DST

[Hidden]

I took it for a long time . Shall start again .

[Schwah]

I am a little confused and I’m

Guessing a few others readers are too. What’s the best way to take Capsaicin? Does it come in pill form or do you really need to eat spoonfuls of some super hot sauce? And how much ?

Thx in advance guys?

Schwah

[pjoshea13 in reply to Schwah]

swansonvitamins.com/natures...

Yes, it has 100,000 HUs, but as Klotz says, it doesn't burn on the way in or on the way out.

-Patrick

[Currumpaw in reply to pjoshea13]

Hey pjoshea13!

The Vitamin Shoppe and Amazon also have it. The 100,000 HU seems to be the way to go.

Thanks again for posting news about Dr. Klotz and the capsaicin study.

His patient that used cayenne to stabilize his hormone resistant prostate cancer dosed 3X daily.

Those in the study are only taking a 40,000 HU capsule 2x daily if I read the details correctly. I wonder if Dr. Klotz made an evaluation of the HU's in the dose the patient used?

The patient that interested Dr. Klotz in capsaicin was able to "stabilize" his PSA, not lower it. It was impressive that the hot sauce at least stabilized the patient's PSA when the ADT drugs failed.

I'd like to have seen a group on the 100,000 HU capsules as well. Maybe dosing 3X daily too. Maybe Dr. Klotz chose 40,000 HU capsules 2X daily to ensure that those in the study would be able to complete it.

I make a vegan chili. A little olive oil in the pot, some button mushrooms, half a green and red pepper, a small clove of garlic. half a cup of red onion and cook them a little. Next a can of Amy's, vegan, hot chili, a can of red kidney beans, some spaghetti sauce, a little ketchup, some black pepper, a heaping tablespoon of cayenne adjusted to match the name I have given it--"The Sweat off the Top of Your Head Chili!". Some ciabatta bread with olive oil rubbed on it, liberally garnished with fresh garlic, generously sprinkled with garlic powder and toasted to a golden brown. Dinner is done! That is another way to get some HU's in!

Currumpaw

[Grumpyswife]

My husband tried "ghost pepper" supplement for over a year and his PSA only went up.

[Currumpaw]

Hey mjbach,

I read your history. I am so sorry for you. Sometimes what works in one doesn't work in another or someone is taking several supplements at once which when combined are effective as Dr. Greger's video about the study funded by a non profit showed. The study found that large amounts of pomegranate, curcumin, cruciferous extract and green tea extract had little effect on prostate cancer. When smaller amounts of these plant extracts were combined they were very effective. The funding was exhausted at the combination of the four. Who knows if the effectiveness of the four would have been increased 3%, 10% and so on by adding additional plant based supps such as quercetin, resveratrol, Turkey Tail mushroom and Kyolic's Immune Formula #3.

We are all trying to navigate through this. I am on another site as well as HU. A member on it that passed once posed the question, paraphrased, "If whatever the choice of our treatment had worked, would we be on here?" The answer is obvious. Some of us just aren't that "lucky".

I really admire you for the strength and tenacity that you have shown and wish you the best.

Currumpaw

[VictoryPC]

Totally agree. It helps me and so many others. Start slow and work your way up to Thai Hot. It makes everything work and feel better.

[pjoshea13]

new study (2019 Nov 28)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/317...

Phytother Res. 2019 Nov 28. doi: 10.1002/ptr.6563. [Epub ahead of print]

Capsaicin suppressed activity of prostate cancer stem cells by inhibition of Wnt/β-catenin pathway.

Zhu M1, Yu X1, Zheng Z1, Huang J1, Yang X1, Shi H1.

Author information

1

Department of Nutrition, the Second School of Clinical Medicine, Nanjing University of Chinese Medicine, Nanjing, 210023, China.

Abstract

Cancer stem cells (CSCs) are considered as the origin and driving cells of cancer, and play a key role in the progress of cancer. Studies have shown that capsaicin exerted inhibitory effect on prostate cancer cells, however, the effects of capsaicin on prostate CSCs remain undefined. In the present study, we showed that capsaicin could downregulate prostate CSCs markers and inhibit the growth of PC-3 and DU145 prostate cancer stem cells. Further, we found capsaicin suppressed the expression of Wnt-2, p-GSK3β and β-catenin, along with downregulation of Wnt/β-catenin pathway target genes c-myc and cyclinD1. Using LiCl, a activator of Wnt/β-catenin pathway, we found activation of Wnt/β-catenin pathway could ameliorate the downregulation of prostate CSCs markers and the growth inhibition induced by capsaicin in prostate cancer stem cells. Those data suggested that the inhibition effect of capsaicin on prostate cancer stem cells and the anti-cancer effect of capsaicin on prostate cancer stem cell may be mediated by Wnt/β-catenin pathway. Findings from this study reveals for the first time the potential role and mechanisms of capsaicin on prostate cancer stem cells.

© 2019 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

KEYWORDS:

Wnt/β-catenin pathway; cancer stem cell; capsaicin; prostate cancer

PMID: 31782192 DOI: 10.1002/ptr.6563

[Currumpaw in reply to pjoshea13]

Hey pjoshea13!

THANK YOU! Hot off the presses too!

Currumpaw

[GreenStreet]

I am not looking to discourage anyone because we are all different but a couple of years ago I added Cayenne to my regime and worked up to 100,000 HU more than 3 times a day over a 3 month period. Unfortunately it made no difference to my PSA progression so I discontinued . I initially started at 40,000 level before working up.

[Currumpaw in reply to GreenStreet]

Hey Greenstreet!

I'm sorry that your capsaicin regimen didn't stabilize your PSA.

As you say, we are all different. Our cancers are different too. How our bodies use, metabolize and absorb whatever we put into them is also different.

Dr. Klotz's patient who used hot sauce that initially made Dr. Klotz interested in capsaicin had hormone resistant prostate cancer that was untouched by the heavy duty ADT drugs but was stabilized by the hot sauce.

Combination and timing has much to do with our success in keeping the cancer at bay. Dr. Greger's YouTube review of the study's results that was funded by a non profit shows that. Larger amounts of green tea, pomegranate, curcumin and cruciferous extracts killed some cultured prostate cells in petri dishes when the blood drawn from men in the study was drizzled on them. Nothing to write home about though. Smaller amounts of all four supplements were combined, taken by the test subjects, their blood was drawn and drizzled on the cancer cells, the combination was found to be quite effective! Funding ended. Too bad! I wonder if a fifth and sixth supplement and so on would have increased it's effectiveness. Some Kyolic Immune formula #103? Some quercetin? Ginger? Resveratrol? Turkey Tail mushroom and combination of other mushrooms? Some black seed oil for inflammation?

I believe it was pjoshea13 that posted a study that ibuprofen taken with green tea extract killed about 30% more prostate cancer cells. Ibuprofen and inflammation?

If one's liver isn't functioning at an optimal level the effectiveness of all the supplements above will be compromised. The immune system starts in the bone marrow. It is important to stimulate it with exercise. The small shocks transmitted through running or walking on a surface does that. The "Herbal Cancer Killers" have ingredients that promote liver health. If one's liver is functioning properly then the chances of preventing recurrence are better.

The lignans of sesame and flax seeds. Broccoli "sprouts" are supposedly the most aggressive cancer killers of the vegetables followed by garlic, spinach--there is a list.

Blueberries are the number one fruit to kill cancer.

The lowly aspirin is effective at preventing metastases.

Off label use of Metformin, atorvastatin and LDN--Low Dose Naltrexone can be very helpful.

I wish you the very best. Don't give up.

Currumpaw

[GreenStreet]

Hi Currumpaw

Thanks for the encouragement! I do exercise and try to run 4 or 5 times a week. I also have a supplement regime which includes many of the items you mention (the initial four plus quercerti n,resverastrol and ginger) amongst others. I normally take with a meal that includes plenty of olive oil and black pepper to assist absorption. I do baby aspirin , Natto, MCP. I eat plenty of broccoli and blueberries. I also eat 85 pc dark chocolate in moderation and take a glass of red wine 4 times a week plus pecan nuts. Am considering metformin addition to regime. I will maybe add 1 100,000 unit Cayenne back into the mix. The point I was making is that I really hit the cayenne when PSA was low c 0.04 in an attempt to stabilise after having read about it and seen a dr Meyers vlog where it appeared to work for a couple of his patients. In a risk adjusted way I believe it is worth trying some of these things in conjunction with the conventional approach and that what works for some may not work for others. I certainly don’t intend to give up against this clever and ever adapting foe and I wish you all the very best too.

Best regards

GreenStreet