Had my first shot of docetaxel on Tues, just 5 days ago... Felt pretty good until Friday. Now I feel like I have the flu - sore throat, fatigue, and a headache. Despite how bad I feel, I m still getting 2 ( 15 ) walks in and doing some very minor weight lifting, 5 lbs, 3 sets - it's incredible what this little weight can do to bring back some muscle. My appetite is off as well - I'm also on xtandi. Even short of breath - actually felt pretty good prior to the shot.
Has anyone gone through a similar reaction?
Thanks...
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ken12491
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That's pretty much how chemo went for me. Infusion on Tuesday, side effects peaking around Friday - Sunday, then easing off and coming and going until next infusion. The last two cycles were the worst.
Keep moving and exercising when you can, it will make a huge difference after chemo. I started improving really fast about a month after the last infusion.
Are you sure that it is not an injection of Neulasta that is causing those symptoms? They sound alike. I would recommend you talk with your oncologist or their staff about it and see what can be done and if it's normal.
It actually could be just a bad cold - seeing my MO this week and will ask him, Thanks for the reply - best to u as well.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like madness to me. Why did you not use sodium ascorbate to kill the cancer before going this route? Or use it with the chemo - but a 10% dose? Now you are using a sledgehammer, and that will damage you.
As someone who received doxcetaxel and Lupron after my prostatectomy three years ago, I agree about its impact. My treatment was based on a Stampede study, suggesting this had long-term benefits for high-risk PCa patients. However, looking back, it was clearly the Lupron that lowered my PSA, not the doxcetaxel.
Having said that, I think that it is all about the context for each patient and who your oncologist is. Sometimes there are few options available for certain stages and specific conditions.
Though I am sure you mean well, making absolute observations and treatment recommendations, when you don't have the full story creates more anxiety and uncertainty for the patient. Asking more about their specific situation provides you with a better basis to make a recommendation. You can then provide actionable suggestions, like seeking a second opinion or relaying your own experience and how it effected you personally.
You sound like you have some good information to offer but a more positive delivery based on more information about the person you are responding to will make it more useful.
You are taking Xtandi - that is all I needed to know. You should know from my posts over the last few months that Sodium Ascorbate with Xtandi is a potent killer of Pca, and the side effects are just about zero. To me it is a no-brainer to give it a try (as you point out we are all different) before hitting the heavy stuff. In any case, your Onco should be familiar with the Ascorbate - Docetaxel combo (10-25% dose) which can also produce good results with much less side effects.
Sorry if I upset you, but if we shut up and fail to inform about gentler alternatives, we would be guilty of a grave injustice to the members of this Forum. Malpractice will continue if we do not query. There seems to be a good supply of doctors driven by money (and the "book" allows them to malpractice with impunity), and a good supply of victims on this Forum. You must decide where you stand - it's your life. I wish you have a long one.
I was not upset by your response, nor was I trying to silence you. I was only suggesting that all treatments have a personal context (such as your own) and recommendations made with that on the table and made with an explanation that informs people is much more likely to be well received. Also, I have not followed your posts, as there are so many but I will read through them.
You offer some good information and I don't disagree with your general assessment that the harder solutions that aren't right out of the play book tend to get pushed aside. We need to advocate for ourselves and have good solid information to bring to our appointments and not be observer in our own care and destiny.
BTW- I am not the original person who posted, just wanted to share my thoughts on your post. Thanks.
I am open minded but not simple minded. Ascorbate treatment interests me, and I would be prepared to try it in combination with Doxycycline plus Azithromycin as the Lisanti research. Tell us your experiences are.
You will read about my Vit C exposure in other posts - I have had about 140 IV's by now and it (plus some Xtandi) keeps me alive as my Pca is quite aggressive. I cannot let up.
There are some clinics that use the "Hit the cancer when it is down!" approach. A dangerous one is to give insulin and the patient goes into a controlled low sugar semi-coma for a half hour or so, and then an IV of Ascorbate or peroxide is given. The idea is the cancer cells are gasping for their sugar fix, and will eat anything. This probably works, but I have no numbers of how well (other than the charge to do this job - $1000). I think a better idea is to just use the IV and that does a kill anyway without half killing the patient first!
Peroxide would be my first choice of IV because it is potent and water is the end product, but this needs experience to make sure it does not go wrong - acidity, bubbles and clots are the main dangers. Some quacks reckon they can do it even without monitoring kit. Ascorbate is safer.
I have no experience with Anti-Biotics with Vit C. It would have to show a very big kill to become a regular thing. Doxycyline and Azithromycin in my view can never get to a net plus result, as these will wipe out the gut flora and fauna in a big way, and that in turn will eliminate about 50% of the remaining immune system. Even if there is a short term kill (with or without Vit C), it will take months for the gut biome to recover. We need every bit of immune system we can muster, as this is what kills the cancer day after day. The less poisons we use, the better off we are.
Vit C via IV is essentially gone from the system after about 6 hours, and does not kill gut bugs. Normal Xtandi dosages also kills lots of gut bugs, but intermittent low doses have much less effect. Handfuls of Vit C tablets taken by mouth will kill some bugs though, as it is a powerful anti-biotic - something to remember when you get a gut or throat infection that is trying to kill you.
I wouldn't worry too much about gut bugs. Only one pill of each antibiotic is needed per C infusion. Look up the paper.... I guess you could even add them to the infusion... Lisanti compares the cancer kill with and without the antibiotics. Seems worth a go.
Pretty typical side effects for a course of docetaxel. They are cumulative, so by your 5th and 6th cycle of chemo they will likely be somewhat worse and last a little longer, but they will pass. Note that everyone reacts to it a little differently.
Speaking of passing, you may have nausea with diarrhea and/or constipation following each cycle. I kept a supply of Depends, emesis bags (in case I got nauseated and felt like puking), Imodium for diarrhea, Senekot S for constipation, and Aleve for headaches and low grade fever. .
In my experience, you learn to anticipate the side effects and in doing so they will be a little easier to deal with.
I got dexamethasone before and after each cycle. Felt pretty good for 3-4 days or so after each chemo infusion, then gradually slid down to a nadir lasting a week or so. Usually spent about 3-4 days feeling totally crappy (both literally and figuratively), then gradually started feeling better. Usually had a week or so where I felt good enough to golf and do yard work before I got my next infusion. I had a chemo port which eliminated injection site reactions.
I also experienced hair thinning (but I didn’t go totally bald), weak & rippled finger and toenails that sometimes broke off, neuropathy in some (but not all) of my fingers and toes, dry mouth, decrease of sense of taste accompanied by a loss of appetite, and a few other rather nasty side effects. They all went away in time after I finished the course of chemo. Your experience may be different. Hopefully better. Stay hydrated and exercise as much as you can, but don’t overdo it. Know your limits.
From everything I have read, there is no evidence that sodium ascorbate alone can cure cancer, or kill cancer cells. However, some small studies seem to indicate that high dose Vitamin C might boost the effectiveness of other cancer treatments including chemo. And, it may help reduce the side effects of chemo and radiation. So, “Caveat Emptor.” I would defer to any opinion on that subject to Tall_Allen if he weighs in on it. As always, you need to do your own research and form your own opinions.
Thank you so much for the detailed reply -- I have most, but not all - best to you my friend as well... Hoping for just 4 rounds - doing 1 every two weeks - perhaps just wishful thinking - I push myself to the point and believe. I'm able to back off. I will not go down without a fight.
Litlerny covers it. Dexamethasone with the chemo caused me 3 days of insomnia. I ate pickle spears during the night to ease my sore throat. Peperoncini would briefly cause sore throat to go away. But in later cycles could no longer handle hot peppers. You are not on usual 6 times 3 week cycle, and not many doing chemo and Xtandi together. I'm sure we are all curious to see how this all plays out. Best of wishes.
Most have 6 cycles, 3 weeks apart. I had 8 cycles, 3 weeks apart. If your MO is having you do 2 week cycles, I sure he has a good reason. There is at least one, and perhaps others on this site, taking Xtandi and chemo together. Is it doing any good, or are you just getting the side effects from both? Don't know if there is an answer to that yet. If someone who is more knowledgeable sees this, maybe they will give us both a more definitive answer. Good luck.
I just don't know how you come up with all of these off the padded wall songs! You really did get me off on a tangent though. Peperoncini is the Italian spelling. So maybe Pepperoncini is just for the domestic product. Who knew? Who cares? Another day with Dora the Explorer.
Your response to Docetaxel is fairly common. I had 5 shots 3 weeks apart, and after first shot my white cells went low and I bounced back to hospital for 3 days to be on a drip and be observed, because I didn't have the Neulasta shot the day after chemo. But sure, I felt weak for first 7 days after each shot. But I cycled 10km each day soon as I could, and for the next 4 shots I cycled 20km to hospital and home again to get my shot; next day a community nurse came to give a Neulasta inject. So that allowed me to cycle on every day after that, so right through chemo I averaged about 100km a week, and in 3rd week I was pretty good. But then I was 71 then, and very fit before chemo. Had I been 81 and unfit I would have suffered a lot more.
But I began chemo with Psa 12.0, the highest it had been since Dx in 2009, and with countless mets in soft tissues and bones, all small, but a huge threat not to be ignored. Psa went to between 40 and 50 after 4 shots so it was declared a failure. I had already asked my oncologist to refer me to doc for Lu177 when chemo fails, began, because both of us thought chemo would fail, and it did fail. But that meant I was allowed to get the Lu177 because chemo failed. I had a 5th chemo shot, Psa remained at 45, then waited a month before beginning Lu177 last Nov. In that month I has PsMa scans that confirmed chemo had not done very much. But Psa moved down to 25 before Lu177.
After 4 shots of Lu177 at 8 weeks apart Psa went to 1.7. During Lu177 I began taking Xtandi which is supposed to make Lu177 more effective, and 7 weeks ago Psa was 0.4, and maybe its lower when I have next Psa test next week and will have easy talk to oncologist I hope. The follow up scans after 4th Lu177 showed all soft tissue mets not visible, and bone mets healing, so it seems like I got a good response, and no mets were found that were not PsMa avid. This means that if Psa rises again, I might get more Lu177 and it probably will be effective.
So far so good.
I had a good rest over winter for 3 months where I did as little as possible because something went wrong with a right side gluteus max muscle and a tendon during a time in Feb and March doing some construction work at home. This has not yet healed up because some additional EBRT was given to right hip area to hasten killing two bone mets, in pelvis and femur near the hip joint.
I think that RT affected muscle and tendon. The affected muscle aches slightly, but not enough to stop sleep or make me take painkillers. I feel better after I cycle, so in an hour I shall be off down the road to a café some 30km across town on bike, and its a glorious sunny spring day. Had the Lu177 not worked, I might be in palliative care right now, and in pain and waiting to die.
The side effects of chemo are less strength in legs, I have lost about 2kph average speed compared to last November, and that the neuropathy, but its got better faster since I got back onto bike 2 months ago. I don't know how much more I might improve, maybe a bit, but overall I feel quite well. Xtandi seems to not be causing any side effects and I can go hard up a hill on bike and heart rate is stable and I recover well. Xtandi is supposed to make men feel tired, and gain weight, but I'm no more tired now than I was 2 years ago before chemo, and my winter weight of 85.5kg is now 82.7Kg, slowing falling, and I hope for 81Kg by Xmas, the same weight I was at 40 when I raced road bikes in the cycling club here. Of course, as I age, I should get lighter as I inevitably lose muscle mass. But I also need to lose fat, so ratio of muscle weight to fat weight stays the same as it was when I was younger. This is extremely difficult for most ppl to achieve as they age, they sit around doing little, and eat too much.
Sounds similar to what I experienced. I hope you try to eat and continue the exercise. Both will help you do well through the chemo.
Ken, just curious. You use the term “shot”; do you not mean infusion?
As far as your symptoms, sounds like a cold as your resistance is suppressed.
As far as normal treatment. Well, there is no normal. They are guesses based on someone’s research.
In 2004, I underwent a six month clinical trial of chemotherapy and hormone therapy. Essentially three cycles of weekly chemo infusions of Taxotere alternated with weekly infusions of Adrimyacin. After one cycle of six weeks, a two week break of infusions. This is the standard treatment today for breast cancer!
With each infusion, I took orals of Ketoconozole with one infusion drug and Erustamine with the other. I also took daily 30 mg of Prednisone and 1500 mg of Vitamin C. And the recommended one before and day after of Dexamethasone with Taxotere.
In addition, I still received three month injections of Lupron/Eligard.
My mets were resolved and after six years, I was able to stop hormone therapy. I was most fortunate to be a guinea pig in a clinical trial.
Good luck. Be sure and discuss any concerns, health changes, ancillary illness with your Medical Oncologist.
I had my first treatment of Docetaxel.. first day felt great...second day nausea and some uncomfortableness...third day,severe back spasms.. anyone else having a back spasm issues?
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