ASCO 2019 Green Tea catechins slows PCa progression

[George71]

Results of our review of the in vitro, preclinical and phase I-II trials, demonstrates that green tea catechins (GTC) can modulate several relevant intermediate biological intermediate endpoint biomarkers implicated in prostate carcinogenesis as well as clinical progression of PCa, without major side effects.

urotoday.com/recent-abstrac...

[George71]

Knowing of your background -- I'm sure it comes as no surprise to you !

But to finally hear it from the Med community is double good.

[Hidden]

Love green and matcha teas.

[George71 in reply to Hidden]

I"m drinking one now -- I had seen where tests found that a teabag of Jasmine + one of Hibiscus combined are synergistic and more potent. I add a lemon ginger bag to mine

[Hidden in reply to George71]

We like hibiscus also.

[Hidden]

Good stuff.

[George71]

They did in China for 500 years -- "modern medicine" is just now Catechins up -- LOL

[George71 in reply to George71]

It's like the BIRM you told us about --

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/277...

I have a question about BIRM -- you may be able to help me with ---

"In androgen receptor (AR)-expressing PCa cells BIRM was 2.5-fold (250%) more cytotoxic in presence of androgen (DHT) compared to cells grown in the absence of DHT. In AR-positive cells (LAPC-4 and LNCaP) BIRM caused a dose and time-dependent down-regulation of AR and increased apoptosis."

I am currently only taking the many supplements we've discussed here -- and Avadart -- and, for now (knock on wood) it has slowed my PSA doubling time from 4 months to 22 months -- and PSA holding for last 15 months between 0.4 to currently 0.5. Since Avadart cuts out DHT and leaves testosterone in tact -- would It be better to stop the Avadart and let the DHT come back?

[Currumpaw in reply to George71]

Regarding BIRM, Amazon has it. Is that where you get it? What is the dosage? If one is taking multiple herbal supplements, perhaps the dosage of whatever we take, could for many supps, be reduced because of synergy. Someday we may know, unless the "pill" many of us hope to see shows up.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to George71]

What supplement or medicine do you think is most impactful on your psa doubling rate. I take a lot of supplements and my doubling time hasn't slowed a bit? Could it be the Avodart? I haven't heard much about BIRM lately. Do you think it is slowing the cancer growth? I was taking it 2 years ago but not lately.

[George71 in reply to GeorgeGlass]

I think it is likely the Avodart ... my Gleason is 4 + 4 = 8 -- I take supplemental testosterone -- currently 200 mg weekly -- keeps T levels around 1500 -- to 800 by end of week. PSA slowly rising -- currently 2.1... thats 4 and one half years post surgery. had micro mets in 4 of 12 lymph nodes.. resent F-18 axium scan did not show anything.... but it is obviously somewhere -- I'm considering lymph node radiation -- but don't like the idea of shooting in the dark.

[whatsinaname in reply to George71]

AYURVEDIC medicine originated in India and dates back thousands of years.

Do a google search, if interested.

[George71 in reply to whatsinaname]

thanks whatsinaname

[whatsinaname in reply to George71]

Most welcome, George71.

[jdm3]

In case any of you prefer white tea...Because of this minimal oxidation process, white tea generally has a higher concentration of catechins than does green tea. Though perhaps the best way to get good concentrations of the EGCG is supplements.

[George71 in reply to jdm3]

Thanks for the info -- I've heard of black tea of course but never heard of white tea. Where do you get it?

[jdm3]

I get loose organic silver needle white tea from Rishi, but there are many suppliers. Sometimes better pricing through Amazon.

rishi-tea.com/category/whit...

For the loose leaf teas you need a special container to steep and strain before you drink so you might want to start with tea bags. I love the taste and alternate between white tea and coffee. It gets me going!

[George71]

It helps low grade -- it is likely to help high grade -- but -- if you want to "play it safe" -- then don't drink tea.

[cujoe]

Thanks for posting, George. UroToday is a rich resource for information on PCa. (I just posted a podcast about the IRONMAN patient registry from there an hour ago.) All here should check it out on a regular basis.

I've been taking green tea supplements for EGCG content in varying dosages for about 11 years now.

But also don't discount the beneficial effects of apigenin-containing chamomile tea; i.e., Green tea during the day and relaxing Chamomile a hour or so before bedtime. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Nor the antioxident-content winner, Hibiscus tea.

nutritionfacts.org/video/he...

I like a mix of green/ginger, green/mint, green/matcha, hibiscus, and chamomile in a big bottle for cold/iced tea during hot weather.

Bottomline is: Create Your Own Green New Deal with Tea & Be Well - cujoe

PS There have been recent concerns (even expressed by the people that ran the Mayo trial) that EGCG CAN cause liver damage - in high doses. (The people who seem to be affected are those taking it as a weight loss supplement.) As a result, the recommended max seems to be 800 mg per day. And there is always the issue of purity, so purchasing from a reputable brand is always a good idea.

[George71 in reply to cujoe]

Thanks cujoe -- all good info.

[cujoe in reply to George71]

Info sharing - that's why we're all here. - cj

[Magnus1964]

About time. I have been drinking Japanese green tea for the last 20+ years. That and a vegetarian diet just might slow the progression of cancer.

[cujoe in reply to Magnus1964]

Magnus, If green tea helped you to make it 23+ years after diagnosis, then that would be a solid endorsement for the rest of us to keep/start drinking a lot of green tea every day. I'll be trying out some of your Japanese GT very soon. Be Well - cujoe

[Magnus1964 in reply to cujoe]

My brand is Yamamotoyama. I get it off of Amazon.

[cujoe in reply to Magnus1964]

Thanks.

[MrG68 in reply to Magnus1964]

If you like Japanese green tea, you should try guricha. It’s actually a rare tea and so is a little bit expensive but is extremely good. I think matcha is more beneficial, but this one tastes very good.

[timotur in reply to cujoe]

I’m a big fan of Japanese green tea as well... I drink the loose-leaf Genmalcha tea from the Chubu region of Japan.

[George71]

Yah, Magnus is doing something right ! -- I think if 5 or 6 of the supplements help -- just 5 or 10 % each --then all together they may be better than anything else we are doing --- SOC is the least effective --- it lags 5 to 7 years behind the rapidly changing field of cancer treatment.

[George71]

"All three green tea samples did not show significant cytotoxic activity up to 10 μg/mL in both HepG2 and AML12 cells, whereas cytotoxicity of the control drug doxorubicin was observed with both cell lines (IC50 on AML12: 0.024 μg/mL, IC50 on HepG2: 2.103 μg/mL).

We identified three sets of genes differentially expressed upon treatment with the green tea samples. The genes were associated with cytoskeleton formation, cellular movement, and morphology.

The correlation coefficients between mRNA expression values determined by microarray and RT-PCR were R = 0.94. HepG2 and U2OS cells treated with green tea extracts showed the delayed closures.

Besides, the number of distinct tubulin filaments decreased upon treatment with green tea samples. We identified not only PF, but also glyceroglycolipids in NPF as contributing factors to the chemopreventive effects of green tea. Both PF and NPF of green tea inhibited cancer cell migration by the disassembly of microtubules, even though they were not cytotoxic. "

That is a universal benefit -- cancer cells are to only ones that try to migrate off into other areas and organs of the body - the more aggressive they are the greater need to SLOW DOWN their cytoskeleton formation, cellular movement, and morphology and green tea does just that.

Instead of green tea morphing the cancer it slows it down from morphing even though the green tea is not directly cytotoxic and takes time to take over and have an effect.

[George71]

"Both Phenolic and Non-phenolic Green Tea Fractions Inhibit Migration of Cancer Cells"

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

[CalBear74 in reply to George71]

Thanks George. Strong piece of research.

[j-o-h-n]

Green Tea? Sorry but it's not my cup of tea.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 02/23/2019 12:55 AM EST

[podsart]

Are green tea supplements part of your regimen? Is there a favored dose and supplier?

Especially if you brew the tea as a typical method, how do you know how much to drink and in what concentration to get a therapeutic dose? Which teas, especially those from china etc have been tested for toxins etc? The old quality assurance issue

[Garbonzeaux]

Good work. And guess who reported the crystal structures of (-)-catechin and dimethoxy (+)-epicatechin (the latter found in pine trees, but perhaps not in green tea)?

[cbgjr]

this is kind of interesting and relevant:

ABSTRACT

Recent studies have shown the role of gut microbiota in favoring the absorption of herbal products and the transformation of their active principles into metabolites endowed with biological activity. This review focuses on the evidence supporting the changes occurring, after metabolic reactions by specific bacteria that colonize the human gut, to ginseng-derived ginsenosides, green tea-derived catechins, and quercetin, this latter being a

flavonoid aglycon bound to sugars and abundant in some vegetables and roots. Furthermore, the results of several studies demonstrating the potential beneficial

effects of the active metabolites generated by these bio-transformations on ginsenosides, catechins and quercetin will be reported.

reader.elsevier.com/reader/...

[Sxrxrnr1]

Any thoughts on good old American black Lipton tea.

I drink a lot of iced tea each day,,,somewhat on the order of 60 to 80 ounces daily. Lipton has an excellent product called ‘Cold Brew’ that you can place in a container of cold water and within 30 minutes you have an excellent iced tea,,,much better than the miserable junk served in most/all restaurants.

I always have a container at the ready sitting in my fridge ready to go.

By the way, I sweeten with equal,,,when does the ground war begin?,,,,which I prefer in taste over sucrose and of course no calories,,,hopefully not the cause of PCa for those who are concerned.

My question again,,,is the chemistry of black tea of any significance compared to green tea and its purported cancer fighting characteristics?

[George71 in reply to Sxrxrnr1]

Black tea is higher in some Catechins -- and green tea seems to be higher in over all Catechins. see at bottom.

I'm sure it is therapeutic also -- I will add it to my green.

I mix 3 or 4 varieties (tea bags) in each cup and drink 2 or 3 a day in between my coffee.

Table 3. Flavan-3-ol Content of Flavan-3-ol-rich Foods (mg/100 g or 100 mL*) Food Flavon-3-ol Monomers# and Thearubigins

C GC EC ECG EGC EGCG Thearubigins

Apples, Red Delicious, raw, with skin 2 0 9.8 0 <1 <1 -

Apricots, raw 3.7 0 4.7 0 0 0 -

Chocolate, dark 24.2 - 84.4 - - - -

Tea, black, brewed 1.5 1.2 2.1 5.9 8 9.4 81.3

Tea, green, brewed 4.5 1.5 8.3 17.9 29.2 70.2 1.1

Tea, oolong, brewed <1 - 2.5 6.3 6.1 34.5 -

Tea, white, brewed - - - 8.3 18.6 42.4 -

Wine, red, Shiraz 6.8 - 10 - - - -

*per 100 g (fresh weight) or 100 mL (liquids); 100 grams is equivalent to about 3.5 ounces; 100 mL is equivalent to about 3.5 fluid ounces.

#Catechins: C, (+)-catechin; GC, (-)-gallocatechin; EC (-)-epicatechin; ECG, (-)-epigallocatechin; ECG, (-)-epicatechin gallate; EGCG, (-)-epigallocatechin gallate.

lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/die...

"In a recent 12-month, multicenter, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase II clinical trial in 158 Japanese men (aged ≥50 years) with elevated risk of prostate cancer, oral isoflavone (60 mg/day) resulted in a significant decrease in prostate cancer incidence in participants aged 65 years and older (134). In this study, no changes were reported in sex hormone concentrations in blood, suggesting that isoflavones may reduce prostate cancer incidence without interfering with hormone-dependent pathways."

[GeorgeGlass]

Have they done studies to see if drinking matcha powder tea slows the cancer growth or are the studies just done in the lab samples?

[Hidden in reply to GeorgeGlass]

What grade of PC do you have? Low grade or high grade?