Benefits of diet change

[Tippler]

Is plant based diet really helpful?

[Urunstoppable]

Yes, stop eating all the garbage that’s out there. Food in America is saturated with sugar which is not a good thing. Exercise more, have something to look forward too, be positive. All of these things will help your cancer. I have prostate cancer and I do all of these things and feel terrific. Stay strong and believe you will beat this thing and you will. Here’s a little interesting footnote.

People who live on the islands of East Asia have the longest life expectancy and the highest proportions of centenarians, that is people who live to 100. They also have lower obesity rates. The adult obesity rate reached an all-time high of 35.7% in 2017 in the U.S., while the obesity rate in Japan is just under 4.5%!

Lose weight, walk it off. You can do it. All you have to do is focus on the positive. It all helps.

[pjoshea13]

It's a complicated subject & many here will have strong views. & not necessarily drawn from the PCa literature (LOL).

My perspective is that men with PCa should address Metabolic Syndrome [MetS] issues. If a plant-based diet helps do that, I believe that there might be PCa survival benefit. The two important MetS symptoms to eliminate - IMO - are:

1] insulin resistance [Metformin can help too.]

2] visceral fat (many studies show poorer PCa survival with higher BMI.)

There are a number of studies on malnutrition in the children of vegans, & it's clear that it is easy to do it wrong. But that may point to a survival strategy - selective restriction of a particular nutrient. e.g.:

1] restriction of an essential amino acid. This is easy when one cuts out all fully formed protein. With insufficiency of a key amino acid needed for protein, IGF-I levels in the body will fall. IGF-I is an important PCa growth factor - a PCa accelerant!

2] without meat, there is a danger of B12 inadequacy. This can be a good thing because PCa cells will not be able to become hypermethylated.

etc.

Personally, I favor some version of the Mediterranean diet. Relatively low in meat & high in fat (40% - mostly olive oil). It's good for the heart. Dr Myers, a ~20 year survivor, promotes it. Mark Moyad says: it it's good for the heart, it's good for PCa patients.

-Patrick

[teamkv in reply to pjoshea13]

What amino acid Patrick? And then do not supplement with any form of B12?

[pjoshea13 in reply to teamkv]

In the context of this thread, methionine restriction:

"Recent studies confirm that dietary methionine restriction increases both mean and maximal lifespan in rats and mice, achieving "aging retardant" effects very similar to those of caloric restriction, including a suppression of mitochondrial superoxide generation. Although voluntary caloric restriction is never likely to gain much popularity as a pro-longevity strategy for humans, it may be more feasible to achieve moderate methionine restriction, in light of the fact that vegan diets tend to be relatively low in this amino acid. Plant proteins - especially those derived from legumes or nuts - tend to be lower in methionine than animal proteins. Furthermore, the total protein content of vegan diets, as a function of calorie content, tends to be lower than that of omnivore diets, and plant protein has somewhat lower bioavailability than animal protein. Whole-food vegan diets that moderate bean and soy intake, while including ample amounts of fruit and wine or beer, can be quite low in methionine, while supplying abundant nutrition for health (assuming concurrent B12 supplementation). Furthermore, low-fat vegan diets, coupled with exercise training, can be expected to promote longevity by decreasing systemic levels of insulin and free IGF-I; the latter effect would be amplified by methionine restriction - though it is not clear whether IGF-I down-regulation is the sole basis for the impact of low-methionine diets on longevity in rodents." [1]

B12 restriction is trickier because it can take a long time to deplete reserves. Those switching to a vegan diet lacking B12 will not feel the effects of deficiency until reserves have been used up.

But for men who are not producing enough intrinsic factor [2], this will happen faster.

-Patrick

[1] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/187...

[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intri...

[cujoe in reply to pjoshea13]

Never heard of IF, but now I know. (At least more that I did before.) I seem to learn something new from every one of your posts, Patrick. Kudos from cujoe

[cujoe]

A complex topic for sure!

I have been on a mostly (95%) plant-based (vegan) diet for the last 8 years or so. I began the change about 4 years after being diagnosed with cancer #1, CLL (chronic lymphocytic leukemia). At the time I started this change my white count was doubling every 18 months, eventually peaking at 3X normal upper range. About a year after starting the change to my diet, my white count peaked (along with the other blood count components that track CLL progress) and began a gradual downward decent. Eight years out my enlarged lymph nodes have nearly completely dissipated and my labs continue to improve, with my white count now within 10% of the top of normal range and my ALC (absolute lymphocyte count) down from 5x upper normal to 1.5 to 2X.

During this same 8 year period, I was diagnosed with PCa and about 5 years ago had robotic RP followed by 8 weeks of IMRT. Three years after IMRT my PSA began rising with a doubling rate of less than 60 DAYS! I did a 3 month round of ADT (Casodex/Lupron) and have been PSA "undetectable" and off treatment for 9 + months.

So, in consideration of the above, it seems safe to say that in my particular case, a radical dietary change (away from meat and dairy) MAY be contributing to a much improved prognosis for my CLL, but not much, if any, for the development of my PCa. Whether it is is helping slow the PCa progression remains to be seen. (See rationale below.)

While my experience is completely anecdotal in nature, there is solid evidence that diet and lifestyle are THE major contributors to all our "western" diseases, including cancer. The evidence that changes in diet can help fight cancer is less convincing. (Than it is for preventing it in the first place.)

That said, a plant-based diet goes a long way to reduce inflammation and many of the other metabolic conditions that are favorable to cancer progression. So, in addition to the ethical (and even environmental) issues that eating less meat and dairy address, it seems a helpful direction for any cancer patient to consider.

For anyone looking for evidence of the efficacy of a plant-based diet, I suggest they sepnd some time at Dr. Greger's NutritionFacts.com website. His recent book, "How Not To Die" and T. Colin Campbell's "China Study" and "Whole" are also good places to start.

Eat Well & Be Well - cujoe

PS. There are nutritional issues with a plant-based diet related to completeness of plant protein (amino acid profile), B-12, and iron absorption that anyone undertaking it should be aware of.

[pjoshea13 in reply to cujoe]

Cujoe,

The "China Study" has a lot of fans, but it also generated quite a bit of negative response from those in Campbell's field. Perhaps opening up a can of worms if that became a thread. Not sure I'm up to it. LOL.

-Patrick

[cujoe in reply to pjoshea13]

Well aware of the controversy. As I remember, the web is loaded with pro/con discussions. Not all bad. Multiple points of view, while they require lots of thoughtful consideration, are not a bad thing. It's mention was definitely not intended to start one of those long point/counterpoint discussions that can go on for days. Many more topics worthy of space here.

Be Well - cujoe

[jmurgia]

Juicing and a vegan diet have been helpful to me.

Diagnosed 2002. No conventional treatment.

Joe

[CalBear74]

An emphatic yes according to physicians like Michael Greger, MD and Joel Fuhrman, MD. Please review these brief videos. The research reviewed points to diet management as central to an anti-cancer strategy.

nutritionfacts.org/video/tr...

nutritionfacts.org/video/tr...

If you have an interest in supplementing with phytates (aka IP6 or "phytic acid"), this may be helpful. I have been using IP6 for 3+years.

nutritionfacts.org/video/ph...

This is a marvelous lecture that summarizes his best-seller:

nutritionfacts.org/video/ho...

Don't miss Joel Fuhrman's videos at youtube. He has written a helpful book: "Eat to Live".

CalBear74

[j-o-h-n]

Don't eat plants which contain the "OUCH FACTOR" i.e. thorns...

Good luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Thursday 11/29/2018 6:47 PM EST

[Hazard]

A plant based diet is good for lots of things. I started a plant based diet just before I started ADT. I lost 20kg, BP cholesterol and triglycerides all improved.

But it did nothing for my cancer. In 6 weeks between starting plant based diet and first zolodex injection PSA went from 2.5 to 7.5. 7 months after starting ADT my PSA went from 7.5 to 49. So all I can say - in my case aggressive PCa loved all the good nutrition I was putting into my body.

If you have an indolent PCa then diet may help keep it that way. 2 friends claim to have achieved a steady PSA through same diet I use. But they clearly do not have aggressive variant PCa.

[Magnus1964]

I became a vegetarian days after my diagnose. That was 26 years ago. It just made sense to me. Prostate cancer is a hormone fed cancer, so all of the hormones they feed to domestic animals to make then grow bigger, fatter, faster can't be good for prostate cancer. Since my diagnose I have added some fish and a little dairy in the form of natural hormone free cheeses and cream in my coffee (one cup in the morning). I put almond milk on my cereal. You really learn to read labels when you shop, it's an education.

When my wife an I dine out it is a bit easier to order fish and other dishes with cheeses.

I would never claim that being vegetarian cures cancer but I don't think I would have lived as long as I have had I not changed my diet.

[are2yvr]

Michael Milken, infamous Wall Street villain and the single largest donor to prostate cancer research in history, was diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer some 20 years ago. Before Taxotere. Before Zytiga.

He was given 18 months. He immediately went on an Ayurvedic vegan diet, did radiation, and put himself into long term remission. He attributed much of his success to his lifestyle change, having consulted countless eastern and western experts, and hired an in house chef to cook his vegan meals. Determined little junk bond king.