Vegan Diet Brings Slew of Metabolic Benefits in Randomized Trial

[snoraste]

Not to beat on a dead horse ..

medpagetoday.com/primarycar...

The study has its limitations as stated in the final paragraph.

[ragnar2020]

Hi sonoraste,

Interesting but to those of us who have made the foxhole conversion to plant based nutrition, it doesn’t offered

anything new. I’ve been plant based for five years now and the benefits are numerous. Don’t expect a lot of positive comments here. Most of

us are old guys who do not change our behavior easily.

Stay safe and sane,

Jeff

[pjoshea13]

"Not to beat on a dead horse." Strange expression for a vegan.

Here is the full paper:

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

This was in the New York Times today:

nytimes.com/2020/11/23/well...

"Vegetarian diets are generally considered healthy, but new research suggests they may have a significant risk: an increased chance of bone fractures."

I thought it would be of interest to vegans here who have treatment-related bone strength concerns.

-Patrick

[snoraste in reply to pjoshea13]

I'm a pescatarian, not strict vegan. But horse meat is still off menu.

[Muffin2019 in reply to snoraste]

Not heard of that type of diet, does it include meat and dairy products and how do you get the calcium you need ?

[snoraste in reply to Muffin2019]

It's vegan plus seafood. similar to Mediterranean diet without diary.

[Currumpaw in reply to pjoshea13]

Hey pjoshea13!

The blended drink I make with organic, raw seeds supplies more than enough calcium, magnesium and other minerals for strong bones. Blending opens the seeds up. Keep the temperature down to protect the nutrition. I start blending gently with the chia then flax, sesame, sunflower, pumpkin, walnut and almonds increasing the blender's speed as the drink thickens. They get ground to smithereens, (cool word huh?). Start with a chilled, thick glass carafe. Some Green Vibrance and Sun Warrior protein as well as some other ingredients finishing up with 5 ounces of frozen blueberries and a couple ounces of frozen dark cherries. Drink it to wash down your supplements!

Seeds and nuts are the powerhouse of plants. They will grow a new plant.

There are some other ingredients but that is for another time.

Currumpaw

[LearnAll in reply to Currumpaw]

Yes..it,s true that seeds have calcium and other minerals.. plenty of them. I eat. lot of seeds/lentils and I have not needed any bone building infusions in last 18 months. DEXA T score is the same after a year. Just checked it last month. Its because of yogurt , turmeric and many type of seeds along with plenty of physical activity .

[Currumpaw in reply to LearnAll]

Hey LearnAll!

I began making this drink 1981. It has undergone changes over the decades. Today's version supplies nutrition that really is helpful for cancer patients.

"Form Follows Function" --even a brisk walk causes vibrations through the skeletal system. This stimulates the body to deposit minerals for strong bones--if the minerals are available!

Currumpaw

[LearnAll]

Very true information. But they still not saying that vegan diet slows growth of cancer cells. ..Soon they will have to disclose this fact too...Sorry junk food industry.. can't suppress truth for long. Junk food industry's fate will be same as Cigarette Companies.

[jackcop in reply to LearnAll]

We do love our junk food.

[LearnAll in reply to jackcop]

Then..you don't love life...Your life. .your choice. .whatever makes you happy.

[Boywonder56 in reply to LearnAll]

What dont love life......as a 65 yo apc survivor.....my zest for life is unmatched....even as i dunk my 20th oreo in a glass of ice cold....ok skim milk....My family crest says...".e plurbus dunkem"....b.w.

[LearnAll in reply to Boywonder56]

What a great attitude.👍

[monte1111 in reply to Boywonder56]

Very funny. I just go with the cookies and cream ice cream. Dunking is too much effort. From being a borderline maniac, retirement and ADT have made me incredibly lazy.

[noahware]

I wonder if "without added fats" really means no added fats -- like no salad dressing or stir-fry with vegetable or olive oils? Or could it mean the elimination of processed junk foods, which would then mean the low-fat group had significant reductions in simple sugars and processed carbs, in addition to their reduction in fats?

My own belief is that it is not so much the reduction of fat itself that is most beneficial in a vegan diet, but the change in types and proportions of fats AND carbs, and the ADDITION of all the good aspects of plant-based WHOLE foods, of which dietary fiber may be one of the most important.

One of the biggest problems with diets that are high in fat and protein is that they are often also high in junk carbs and low in prebiotic fiber, and so the gut microbiome may be less than optimal.

When we read that "this group saw an increase in average carbohydrate and fiber intake, paired with a decrease in fat, protein, and cholesterol intake" we really have no way of knowing which aspects of these differences are most beneficial. Perhaps the most important thing is simply that "they reduced their overall energy intake" and did so not just by reducing fat and protein, but also by reducing the simple junk carbs of white sugar and white flour.

I suspect a high-energy vegan diet of processed industrial foods like pretzels, fries, soda, etc. could be much worse for us than a well-formulated, low-energy non-vegan diet that included grass-fed dairy, omega-3 eggs and sardines along with veg, fruit and beans.

[snoraste in reply to noahware]

There's no question about your last paragraph. Corn syrup is vegan. So is bleached flour. But I do have to say this: that after two weeks on vegan diet, I felt more energized, less sleepy and more alert. I can't prove it, so I always encourage people to give it a try for two weeks and see what happens. What's the worst that can happen? Homosapiens have been omnivores for a long time, so it doesn't surprise me at all that there may be some evolutionary disadvantages in a pure vegan diet. Hence, moderation and balance. I started off as vegan and now a pescatarian.

[monte1111 in reply to snoraste]

I started off Pagan, now I'm Presbyterian.

[snoraste in reply to monte1111]

Sorry to hear you're regressing!

[monte1111 in reply to snoraste]

That's a 10.

[garyi]

So, if the cow that donated the hamburger I just ate was on a grass only diet, does that count toward being a vegan ? 😉

[clayfin in reply to garyi]

Yes - In addition only eat animals that are vegan 😃 - so no badger, bear or boar meat - manatees are fine.

[Lettuce231 in reply to clayfin]

Thanks for the clarification, I'll eat my fried egg now.

Bon app.

Phil

[monte1111 in reply to clayfin]

I am sure you are joking. Anyone who eats manatee should be thrown to the badgers, bears and boars. Oh, my. So I should eat nothing that has claws? I have been raising these cats for nothing?

[Boywonder56 in reply to monte1111]

Fotflmao.....

[clayfin in reply to monte1111]

Cats are not good to eat - on the other hand kittens are tasty - almost like cat veal. Someone, somewhere must have a recipe that they would be willing to share.

[Hidden]

Once your diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer it really doesn't matter what you eat as it's only a matter of time until your ticket is punched. Might as well eat whatever you want.

[snoraste in reply to Hidden]

I take a more optimistic approach to life with PCa. The connection between diet and PCa is tenuous, but not so with other diseases. Keep in mind that 15-20% of deaths in patients with PCa is not related to the cancer itself, rather to "other" causes, mainly cardiovascular. Proper diet and exercise should not be optional for PCa patients.

[monte1111 in reply to snoraste]

ADT is known to contribute to cardiovascular issues. From what I heard of the last stages of Advanced Prostate Cancer, a somewhat early exit by heart attack may not be such a bad idea. To each their own is best. I got T-Bone tonite.

[noahware in reply to Hidden]

Perhaps it really doesn't matter what you eat, but it also seems possible that certain diets (and other factors) might either speed up or slow down metastatic progression for some (many?) men.

[snoraste in reply to noahware]

I'd say it does matter what you eat for your overall health. But to connect diet to PCa progression is not clear.

[Hidden in reply to noahware]

We should all eat heart healthy .. APC treatments diminish everything ..😷.

[LearnAll in reply to Hidden]

NoNameLame...Yes it matters.. Meat eaters have higher systemic inflammation in their body and that causes faster growth of cancer cells. Please do not mislead others with your ignorance about meat, inflammation and prostate cancer,

Do me a favor. .check your C reactive protein and then stop meat for a month ..recheck and see it will be lower. Low CRP slows growth of cancer cells.

[keepinon in reply to LearnAll]

Hey LearnAll... FYI, I am a meat eater, pretty much every day. My last CRP was <.1.

[LearnAll in reply to keepinon]

That,s very good.👌 Keep it that way. Something is doing something good.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

That’s what my urologist told us too , he was a Jack ass ,I might as well haves jump off a Cliff too.. .. my thought is , what we put into our bodies now is more important than ever before for us with APC . Personal choice . On occasion celebrate food ..Dive into a vat of gravy . If that makes you happy ? It is our daily habits that if bad can take us down faster . can’t tell another man what to eat .. food has always been my love . Now it’s mostly organic and not much processed junk . Take care

[dhccpa]

I started the whole food plant based (WFPB) diet in July 2019 following a 9-day water-only fast. No meat, dairy, alcohol, soft drinks, or artificial sweeteners. No processed products, added sugar, very little added salt, small amounts of select vegetable oils.

I was about 85-90% faithful to it until Covid hit big in March, then I tightened up to about 99% (I do eat one 15 oz. can of oily fish, spread over 3 days, about every 8-10 days).

My observation is that the major benefits, including weight loss, come much later than 3 months. Your body wants to know that your serious about this, that you're in this for the long run.

Trials are just too damned short. That's only one reason they can be manipulated to show anything. Longer ones can be as well.

[ck722]

A salad of fresh cannabis leaves is nice. No, it won't get you high - unless you heat it to 160 for an hour but who does that?

I never could figure out just why fish is not meat. Perhaps it is the aluminum wrapper they come in that cancels out all the badness.

Trying to eat organic is a good thing. Home grown is best.

[rocket09]

There have been many vegans that have gotten PC. A good quality balanced diet is what works for me.

[Hidden]

There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all diet. Each of us has different cultural, genetic, moral, energy, emotional and bio-physiological needs as well as personal preferences and other chronic health conditions. This concept is called bio-individuality, which I have used with clients as a nutritionist for the past 15 years until recently retiring to care for my husband. No matter what diet you choose (vegan, vegetarian, paleo, Mediterranean, carnivore, AIP, blood type, low carb, ketogenic, gluten-free, grain-free, dairy-free, low acid/low pH), you will find articles and books that validate each one, so "arguing" about which diet is best is futile. There is clear evidence that processed and junk foods, refined flours and sugars, and trans fats are your biggest enemies for all chronic disease. Focus on eating whole, unadulterated foods with an occasional cheat here and there, and if you want to dig deeper, search online for a qualified nutritionist to fine tune your bio-individual needs.

[j-o-h-n]

How do you know if someone is a vegan?

Don't worry, they'll fucking tell you.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 12/02/2020 6:30 PM EST

[monte1111]

So will those damned Pescatarians. They are constantly knock, knock, knocking at my door, trying to sell me fish.