Is this normal!

[Meeko10]

My son in law has a dear friend with stage 4 PC. He was given hormone therapy a couple of months ago and immediately went to a Whole Foods diet with supplements and exercise. Yesterday I got this message from my son in law:

Update on my buddy, today was his first day of chemo and just before his treatments they went over his labs, his PSAs dropped to 54! From 174 just 2 weeks ago, and a month and a half ago it was 250. His Oncologist is beside himself.

My question is regarding his change in diet and exercise. Is it possible for it to have this kind of impact? I also wonder because my husband has PC..did Radical prostrate removal 3 years ago and now is on salvage radiation therapy . I wonder so much about any role nutrition could play.

[Dan59]

It is common to have dramatic drops in psa after starting hormone therapy, especially in the second month after starting hormone therapy. Lets hope with the chemo he can get the psa to undetectable. My own psa dropped from 148 to 29 after just 2 months of zolodex only, I did not have a whole foods diet. In short I would attribute the drop to the hormone therapy, though there is nothing wrong with staying healthy with a good diet.

[Meeko10 in reply to Dan59]

Thanks Dan59. I am working hard to understand because my son-in-law believes the lifestyle changes are the reason. We don't debate it, but are just trying to learn. It helps so much to hear from those who has real experiences.

[Thinus in reply to Meeko10]

Hallo Meeko

You must have a hollistic approach. Please encourage him to keep going with his treatment as well as a pescovegan diet plus herbs.

[Hidden]

This is not an unusual response to ADT. My PSA dropped from 463 to 12 in one month. I didn't do any special diets so in my case, it could only be the ADT. That was more than likely the case with your son-in-law's friend.

[ezhoe]

Not unusual for ADT. My #'s, on Eligard went from PSA 22.50 to 8.67 and "T" from 321 to 39 in just 3.5 weeks. no change in diet. Ed

[TommyTV]

Record Breaker...

PSA 571 to immeasurable within 12 weeks! Zoladex, Abiraterone and Prednisone. No diet changes, or alternative therapies for me.

[Meeko10 in reply to TommyTV]

Crazy how the body can modify with meds. Thank you for sharing this. Helps to understand.

[CalBear74]

You will find these short videos helpful in explaining the role of nutrition in fighting prostate cancer:

nutritionfacts.org/video/tr...

nutritionfacts.org/video/tr...

nutritionfacts.org/video/ho...

nutritionfacts.org/video/dr...

See also the videos of Dr. Joel Fuhrman at youtube.com.

The men need to consider a whole plant food diet immediately. Dr. Greger and Dr. Fuhrman have both written cookbooks for men seeking optimal health.

CalBear74

[Meeko10 in reply to CalBear74]

I am familiar with both authors as I bend back and forth between vegan and not...but convincing my husband..another story. Thank you for the links!

[abmicro]

I had a drop in PSA when I moved from Los Angeles to Sacramento. No changes in meds, no explanation other than change from a polluted environment near the 210 freeway in LA to a clean environment away from all freeways and very clean water provided by the sierra snow melts feeding our water supplies. Environment can have a minor impact on cancer and general health. Every bit helps.

[Dan59 in reply to abmicro]

One can not compare psa values from 2 different labs,they use different assays. My psa was always lower in Boston than in my hometown, usually significantly.

[abmicro in reply to Dan59]

I drove back to the same lab in Los Angeles because my insurance had not changed yet, and I had a doctor there in LA I still wanted to see one more time before I changed insurance. My PSA did start to drop when I drove back to the lab in LA. When my insurance changed , my PSA at the new labs seemed to be comparable with the prior labs in Los Angeles, and continued to drop a little for a while, and then started going up again. I believe environment helps a little. Every small change for the better helps a little.

[MichaelDD in reply to abmicro]

Not on point for PC but lived in LA for 6 years. Grade school and part of my Freshman year in high school. Moved to the SF Bay Area in 1968. Had asthma and attacks my whole time living there. Not once since then living here ...

Wondering why now how I had stage 2 breast cancer and became a survivor 9 years ago?. Stage 3 G8 PC (detected 2016) that I have now and just this week found out metastasized to my lungs??

[j-o-h-n in reply to MichaelDD]

To MichaelDD, Maybe this will help. I've posted a few times that I have Melanoma Lung Cancer stage IV (and Pca) . I am currently being treated at MSKcc in NY City with Keytruda and it's working. I've asked my Melanoma Oncologist and my Prostate Oncologist if it helps with my Pca. They both replied that it had very little effect but maybe it helps the other way around, Pca and then lung cancer (but not melanoma lung cancer) if you follow me. Give it a try? (Keyturda = $30K a treatment).

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Sunday 10/21/2018 6:54 PM EDT

[Meeko10 in reply to abmicro]

I have read that filtered drinking water is very important in the whole journey. Thank you

[lincolnj8]

With hormone therapy and Lupron my PSA went from 800 down to under 1 in 7 months. My diet wasn't questioned probably because of going from near death to close to normal in the 7 months. No pop or alcohol BUT my vice is ice cream. Nurse practitioner laughed and said "good" lots of calcium. Allrighty. Chocolate Chip please!!

[Meeko10 in reply to lincolnj8]

Same weakness as my husband! But he still is having his daily two cocktails even during radiation which I personally question....but I cant nag him about it. I am surprised it is not creating side effects for him, but nothing so far

[j-o-h-n in reply to lincolnj8]

Make it two scoops for me (in a sugar wafer cone).

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Sunday 10/21/2018 6:57 PM EDT

[monte1111]

Ah, yes. Pop, alcohol AND chocolate chip ice cream. Will not describe my diet or life style cause I don't have time to read all the hate mail. I'm sure the hormone therapy had something to do with the psa drop. Best wishes to you, hubby and friend.

[j-o-h-n in reply to monte1111]

Make it two scoops for me (in a sugar wafer cone).

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Sunday 10/21/2018 6:58 PM EDT

[lincolnj8 in reply to monte1111]

My lovely caring daughter would have me on all fours eating the grass in the front yard. I love her to death but no, no no.

[EliasJ]

Husband's PSA at time of diagnosis of PC 3 was 1,148. This was in December of 2015. We were told he was beyond surgery and radiation so he was placed on ADT - Lupron monthly injection and daily Casodex and we did the whole organic bit including the Budwig diet and juicing and he quit smoking. By September of 2016 his PSA was 6.9 and we were all elated. He eventually - gradually returned to his previous life of smoking and diet and by October of 2017 his PSA was at 30+ and his urologist referred him to an oncologist who did all the preliminary blood work and scans before evaluating him for the next step. Husband was placed on Xtandi and remained on the monthly Lupron injections and Casodex was nixed. By the fourth month on Xtandi, the PSA level was at 400+ and oncologist switched him to Zytiga and the Prednisone and the monthly Lupron injections continued. First month into the Zytiga, his PSA dropped to 25; 3rd month up to 40, and last weeks blood work showed PSA at 37. Oncologist said this was not unusual and PSA tests aren't precise.

I want to say that the organic diet helped but it would be completely anecdotal to make that claim. Yet, I will state the obvious: an organic/healthy diet improves everyone's health.

As per oncologist, the tumors in husband's bones contribute to PSA increase. The prostate gland is barely even detectable as per urologist.

I have read (and tried to understand) studies and books about Prostate Cancer and I am left with even more questions.

I used to say often that though long strides have been made in the understanding and application of medicine, it is still guesswork at best. (my bad)

[Meeko10 in reply to EliasJ]

I suppose thats why this blog is of such value to people on this journey. In reading individual cases here it appears there is so much still to understand about it. Frustrating

[j-o-h-n in reply to EliasJ]

to EliasJ

"it is still guesswork at best. (my bad)" Guesswork? You're being kind.

youtube.com/watch?v=ImezJ_t...(Not working as expected?)

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Sunday 10/21/2018 7:05 PM EDT

[lincolnj8 in reply to j-o-h-n]

OMG, so funny!!

[EliasJ]

Hang in there...

[Fairwind]

It's the Lupron, not the Whole Foods diet....

[whatsinaname in reply to Fairwind]

On the ball, Fairwind

[Meeko10]

Grateful for all the replies. Thank you. I am finding it so helpful to come to educated thinking through this group. Not easy with so many stories in so many places. Whoever started this group was brilliant. Whike talking to Urologists and oncologists is educational it often feels very rote, which I understand, but personal journeys help it all make more sense. Wishing everyone a day of calm abd peace.