I am new to this site. I was told that Nalakrats could provide info on natural supplements and perhaps Tall_Allen New could provide insight as well. If they see this post, please respond and we will go from there.
My story is I have had PC since 2004 or earlier and in 2012 diagnosed with metastatic bone cancer. I have had a combination of conventional radiation medicine and natural supplements and will be adding Turkey tail Mushroom extract (Liquid) shortly. I have been asymptomatic until now in 2018. I now have some lower back pain and F18 PET confirms multiple lesions on vertibrae. I have confirmed bone metastasis since 2012. 5 yr. survival rate I understand is between 3-15%. I have been fortunate.
Please respond if possible, Thanks
PCSteve 39
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pjoshea13 - has a lot of posts on supplements. I suggest searching this forum and reading his posts. Also search on Nalakrats posts. Even though he is on a vacation from this site there is a lot of information in the posts. Which turkey tail are you taking ? I have my husband on the one from Oriveda. Also I have him on BIRM concentrated. And a lot of other supplements.
Panax ginseng (saponins: 20(R)- and 20(S)-ginsenoside-Rg3)
Polypodium leucotomos (difur)
Poria cocos (1–3-α-d-glucan)
Polygonum cuspidatum (resveratrol)
Proanthocyanidin
Quercetin
Rabdosia rubescens Hora (ponicidin and oridonin)
Rosmarinus officinalis (carnosol and ursolic acid)
Scutellaria baicalensis (baicalin and baicalein)
Silybum marianum (silymarin)
Soy isoflavones (genistein, daidzein)
Tanacetum parthenium L. (parthenolide)
Tabebuia avellanedae (β-lapachone)
Taxus brevifolia (taxoids)
Viscum album (lectins)
Zingiber officinale (6-gingerol)
Other Chinese herbs (see Table VI)
Cyclo-oxygenase-2 antagonists (see Table IV)
Minerals
Selenium
Animal-derived
Bovine cartilage
Shark cartilage (water soluble extract AE-941)
Squalus acanthias (dogfish liver: squalamine)
B-Apoptosis
Apoptosis or programmed cell death is a strictly controlled pathway that is responsible for removal of unwanted cells, old and injured cells.17 The most important and identified characteristics of apoptosis includes morphologic changes for instance, heterochromatin core mass, cell membrane shrink and loosing organelles position in cytoplasm. In addition to key morphological changes, sophisticated molecular procedures and mechanisms are also involved. Several mechanisms alignment and molecular changes result in apoptosis inducing system. Apoptosis is either created by death receptors, which are called extrinsic pathway utilizing caspases 8 and 10. The other pathway is mitochondrial path or intrinsic pathway involving caspase 9.18 Recognizing involved mechanisms in cancer development is of great importance for developing neoplastic treatment. Induction of apoptosis is one the most important marker of cytotoxic antitumor agents. It has been shown that some natural compounds including plants induce apoptotic pathways that are blocked in cancer cells.19
Herbal compound with anti-cancer activity
Phenolic compounds
Human diet includes a complex of herbal polyphenols. Studies have shown that these phenols have cytotoxic effects on different tumors. Mechanisms of these compounds are carried out through apoptosis.
Curcumin (Diferolelyl methane) is a phenol compound derived from rhizome of curcuma specie.20 Using cucrcumin, pre-clinical cancer research has shown that this plant inhibits carcinogenic procedure in the most cancers including colorectal, pancreas, gastric, and prostate. It is also effective on different stages of carcinogens, proliferation, angiogenesis and metastasis. Moreover, curcumin acts as a chemo-sensitizer, and results in increased activity of other anticancer factors in treating multi-drug resistant and chemotherapy-resistant resistant cancers.6,21 NF-Kβ Signaling pathway is involved in cytotoxic doxorubicin effects and its analogues; hence, curcumin increases response of tumor cells to doxorubicin through blocking NF-Kβ signaling pathway.18 Phase II clinical trial studies have shown that curcumin is not toxic to human to a dose of 8000 mg/day.22
Ginger is a phenol complex whose rhizome is used widely in traditional medicine. Phenol compounds of this plant show cytotoxic activity through apoptosis in cancer cells.20
Resveratrol is a phytoalexin found in grapes. It was shown that resveratrol causes apoptosis in HL60 cells and T47D (breast carcinoma cells).21 It induces apoptosis through CD95 signaling–dependent apoptosis in HL60 and T47D cells. Moreover, it was shown that such complex enhances CD95L expression on HL60 and T47D cells.23
Flavonoid
Preliminary studies showed that polyhydroxy phenols such as flavenoids bring about low incidence of colon and breast cancer.17
Genistein is a phytosterols belonging to Flavonoids family. Apoptosis induction by genistein in human pro-myelocytic HL-60 leukaemic cells has been confirmed by using flow cytometric analysis.6 It inhibits tyrosine kinas, angiogenesis and arrests cell cycle in G2/M phase.21
Biocalein is a flavenoid contained in sho-saiko-to herbal medicine that induces apoptosis in cell lines of human hepato-cellular carcinoma (HCC). It acts through inhibition of topoisomerase II.
Quercetin induces apoptosis by quercetin stimulated through release of cytochrome-c to the cytosol and activating of caspase9.20
Now that list would keep the food supplement CEO’s children in diapers for centuries; because obviously using all these substances or unregulated drugs, they will live forever. Oh, and certainly a thank you is needed for providing a commercial website for a chiropractor to purchase these drugs. A website which relies on testimonials and field sounding words that prove these drugs work. All the profits, are they donated to third world countries that do not have access to life saving treatment? Sorry Darryl, but that list was too much to resist.
Thanks for sharing. The long list of herbs is more than we can chew on let alone swallow. It would be good if you could trim this down to some specifics or tell us where we could read more about each and decide for ourselves what.
As you can see there are two categories of herbs- apoptosis and anti angiogenesis. I have chosen some from each category. You will have to make your own choice. Some are common and some not.
I recall a study that warned about selenium for prostate cancer patients. It's the reason I had to swear off multi-vitamins -- they all brag about including selenium.
Nalakrats will be back from his sabbatical in a few days, I believe, but you can search through his old posts.
Someone must have been pulling your leg about Tall_Allen as a go-to guy for supplements. He is the destroyer of hope in that regard. However, if you need advice on radiation ...
I reviewed the scientific literature on supplements (mostly 2-3 years ago) & posted a series. The Search feature on this page frustrates me. So, ...
Google: <"Foods/Supplements-Vitamins:" pjoshea13>
& you will even find turkey tail.
But I have other series too, & I credit many of the papers I cite for my 14+ years of survival. Alas, I have never experienced remission, but management is an OK alternative IMO, & supplements have played a big role. Again, IMO.
As pjoshea13 indicates there are some here who scorn natural supplements but the results published in respected, peer-reviewed cancer and nutrition journals should not be ignored.
Also, I can not ignore the personal messages I receive from men who have take natural supplements I have suggested. IP6 is the most well-known of all the supplements I will list here. I received this message about a month ago:
"Good Morning CalBear74,
I hope you are feeling well and doing great! Just a quick update. Further great news last week I had my second Lupron shot and a DRE. The doc informed me that "the two nodules on my prostate were gone and the surface was smooth." PSA down to 0.40 from 55 PSA three months ago! IP6 & the Beta Glucan worked well and it should keep me alive in the coming years for sure. Thanks"
I also received this message:
"Hey CalBear,
Just wanted to let you know I decided to give IP6 and the supplements you suggested another try. I had tried the IP6 prior to my June blood test and it didn't seem to slow the rise in my PSA.
I started in the second week of July...taking 12 scoops of IP6 plus supplementing with the milk thistle and some of the other supplements you suggested. I didn't take the large dosages that you are taking...rather I just took the normal recommended dosages of each...twice daily. I usually just eat two main meals a day.
My July blood test showed a surprising drop in my PSA. My PSA had been doubling each month..starting early this year. My MO dropped Zytiga for me as it seemed to be no longer effective.
I started Radium 223 treatments on June 29, but my MO informed me that it would not likely help with my PSA. I expected my PSA to have doubled once again, but instead it had dropped a bit which was a very nice surprise.
Thank you for the info about the IP6 and supplements!"
IP6 should be taken on an empty stomach (no food or milk, etc. for at least 2 hours prior). It should not be mixed with any drink containing protein as the IP6 molecules will bind to the protein molecules and lose their potency. After drinking your IP6 in water or a low sugar fruit juice (e.g., Ocean Spray Diet Cran-Pomegranate or Cran-Grape) don't eat anything for at least an hour.
This is a powerful chemical agent you need to understand; you will benefit from reading AKM Shamsuddin's book "IP6 & Inositol". Amazon has copies. If you are on warfarin, you will need to talk to your doctor about adjusting your dose as IP6 reduces platelet aggregation.
How much should you take at your early AM and late PM dosing session? This is the biggest single problem with IP6 getting funded for large scale clinical trials. I spent considerable time in 2015 when I first got started trying to determine what would be best for me given my personal medical profile. I had more than two years of taking Casodex and Eligard (Lupron) when I got serious about starting an IP6 regimen. I read some testimonials and decided that because I was a Gleason 8 I should hit the cancer hard. I went with 12 scoops of powder taken in two divided doses (6 in AM; 6 in PM). This turned out to be a good estimation and, I found out subsequently, it is a massive dose given what other cancer patients were typically taking.
The IP6 powder has to be mixed very vigorously in a closed container.
I would recommend purchasing Enzymatic Therapy Cell Forte Powder from AllStarHealth.com, both provide least cost product and distribution. There are two other brands and they are both excellent; however, they are more expensive.
I had not told
my urologist what I was doing in 2015. I felt 12 scoops was necessary as I was originally diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer (with 2 bone metastases) in fall of 2012. If you start at a lower dose be prepared to increase your dose if you don't get the results you want. Dr. Shamsuddin repeatedly states in his summaries of his experiments that results revealed "dose-dependency and time-dependency". The more you take and the longer you take it, the better the results.
In AZ at my first meeting with my urologist in mid-2015 after starting IP6, my PSA was 0.1, lower than my urologist anticipated. He insisted on a DRE which he hadn't performed for more than 2 years. No nodules could be palpated in my prostate. That startled him! Since moving to Florida, my urologist here in fall 2016 read this in my chart and said he wanted to check for himself. He also could not find any indication of cancer after a vigorous probe.
Dr. AKM Shamsuddin, author of "IP6 & Inositol" and on the faculty of the University of Maryland Medical School for many years, wrote me, in response to my inquiry that a smooth prostate was consistent with his cancer research findings (they go back to the 1980s) and indicated a normalization of cancer cells. He explains normalization in his book along with apoptosis.
That's the whole story of IP6. I am also using beta glucan, specifically because it is important, I use Beta 1,3D Glucan (#300) from Transfer Point. Dr. Vetvicka is the foremost authority on fighting cancer with natural immunomodulation through glucans. See his interviews at vitawithimmunity.com and certainly read the 3rd edition of his book. "Beta Glucan: Nature's Secret".
When I take the beta glucan it is combined with resveratrol and Vitamin C as Dr. Vetvicka recommends (his studies found a clear synergistic relationship when the 3 are taken together - on an empty stomach. I take mine late in the evening. I should add Japanese cancer care has been using beta glucans since the 1980s. They favor glucans from mushrooms and seaweed. We use yeast-derived glucans and Transfer Point's #300 is the top performing glucan in head-to-head experiments that included mushroom-based and seaweed-based glucans. His book is a must read for those interested in cancer treatment involving immunomodulation through glucans.
Other supplements I take daily:
Cancer treatment is widely endorsing certain statin drugs and Metformin, which was originally developed to manage blood sugar of type 2 diabetics. I take the bioequivalent of Lovastatin (which is lipophilic) called red yeast rice and the bioequivalent of Metformin called berberine root. I use the Solaray brand of red yeast and the Solaray brand of berberine.
I now also take capsaicin/cayenne combined with naturally sourced lycopene (e.g., V8 juice, tomato soup, or pasta sauce, etc.,) turmeric/curcumin with piperine added for enhancing bioavailability, alpha-lipoic acid, quercetin, Gamma E with Tocotrienols combined, grape seed extract, vitamin D3, green tea extract decaf, and, very importantly, European milk thistle with Isosylybin A and Isosylybin B.
•These supplements have been added incrementally over time, thereby complicating building a model of causation.
I am for my doctors, whether they are PCP, urologists, or uro-oncologists, a pretty boring patient. I am a Gleason 8 diagnosed in 2012. My PSA fluctuates between 0.06 and 0.2. After six years of ADT I am still not resistant.
Please conduct your own research on these recommendations at pubmed.gov. The abstracts from cancer journals present summaries of research articles on all these chemical agents.
I should add that I am a vegan and have been for the past year. Please go to nutrition facts.org. Dr. Michael Greger's 90 minute lecture and his book both titled "How Not to Die" is essential reading for a prostate cancer patient. He has dozens of short videos including some on prostate cancer and IP6 (called "phytates", its old name) all patients need to view.
Mark Scholz's book "Key to Prostate Cancer" is an important, comprehensive presentation involving 30 co-authors. Don't miss reading this book.
Hope this information is helpful. Send me your questions and I will be happy to respond.
Wow! You seem pretty intent on saving your life- and I admire your efforts. I will order all 4 of the books you mentioned. I was dx 3 months ago w APC w about 20 bone Mets, 10.6 PSA and 4-3 G. Lupron, Zytiga n Predizone for the last 9 weeks. PSA is now .27 and T is 47.
I paddle board and then juice ever morning. Gym 3 times a week. Taking IV curcumin once a week plus curcumin capsules. Also vit C, D, coq-10, fish oil, multi n prosteon.
I too believe in the power of the adjunctive therapies and supplements. I will look into IP6, Beta Glucan etc. I hope to chat w you, a fellow Floridian, some more since the vast number of posts are only about standard care.
My IP6 brand is Enzymatic Therapy Cell Forte Powder. I obtain it from allstarhealth.com. Your dose, if I understand what you are saying, is far lower than mine. Keep in mind, IP6 has been found repeatedly in experiments to be dose-dependent and time-dependent: The more you take and the longer you take it, the better the results. I take approximately 65 GRAMS daily in two divided doses. Of course, it is always mixed vigorously in a mug filled with about 12 ounces of water - on an empty stomach. I don't eat for 45 minutes to an hour. Good luck.
I believe that supplements can help. Read about Ruth Heidrich. I don't expect everyone to do as well as she. Please look at this video of Dr. Kwon. Tall Alan mentioned this. This video is good. I hope it helps. With multiple lesions someone like Dr. Kwon would be who I would look for.
I would advise LifeExtension's Curcumin supp with ginger.
Simple aspirin can prevent metastasis.
Host Defense Turkey Tail and My Community for synergy.
Broccoli sprouts, garlic, onions and mushrooms in your salads.
Watch Dr. Greger's YouTube videos. No one thing but a combination -- feel free to add more than the four supps in a certain video by Dr. Greger.
Green tea.
I take many plant derived supps at one time as they work together.
Minerals--zinc and boron supps.
Green Vibrance.
IP6 & Inositol and Essiac Tea recommended by my herbalist, he is in his mid 80's and has seen much. I take 6 capsules with a couple swigs of Flor-Essence first thing in the AM.
Black seed oil.
Cell Food.
Walnuts, pecans and almonds.
Flax seeds ground immediately before eating or drinking in something.
Sesame seeds. (Lignans)
Black pepper or bio-piperine coupled with bromelain to help digest and absorb these supps and nutrients from foods.
A powerful blender with a thick, glass, carafe that can be stored in the freezer to keep temperatures down when blending drinks with seeds in them is a useful tool. Sort of "pre-digested" too!
Maybe a little juicing using a masticating juicer.
There are so many things that people swear by it makes me wonder sometimes if the placebo effect is the real reason rather than the supps or a combination of the two. When someone starts getting into supps it isn't like a study. Before you know it the number of supps is astonishing! So what works? I'll leave that alone now. No need to piss on anyone's parade including my own!
Bone marrow and the liver has much to do with the immune system. The impact of running stimulates bone growth and the immune system unlike an elliptical or bike. Supps such as Essiac tea , Flor-Essence and milk thistleave long been reputed to clean the liver.
Think about becoming a vegan. It is hard. It has worked for many though.
Steve is quite the brilliant man himself in my eyes. He researches so many supplements and has helped himself and Elgie all of these years. I am thinking that all of you who do this research on yourselves with your supplements to the max may add some suggestions for Steve to research quickly to be able to slow his cancer down naturally. Him and his Mrs. are 2 special people to me as are all of you.
Do your research carefully, there are a lot supplements that are dubious. Remember these natural supplements are not cures but they might keep Pca a bay a little longer.
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