Has anyone ever been cured of metastatic stage 4 prostate cancer by merely taking ADT 3 ?

[George71]

I have never seen where any doctor or clinic claimed that ADT 3 alone cured anyone with Pca stage 4 -- (in lymph nodes or bones)

[Tjc1]

No cure just control.

[Tall_Allen]

Metastatic PC is incurable. There are always miraculous cases.

[George71 in reply to Tall_Allen]

virtually everyone with a rising PSA after surgery or radiation are metastatic -- they just don't know where it is until it grows some

[Tall_Allen in reply to George71]

After surgery, about half only have cancer in the prostate bed (not metastatic), and about half of radiation patients are only locally recurrent (not metastatic).

[Schwah in reply to Tall_Allen]

Wrong or right, dr scholz and his associates believe that ogliomeastatic PC can be cured with early aggressive treatment including ADT,Zytega and chemo. Wishful thinking ? Perhaps. Or maybe something to it. Thus far we keep learning that most treatments for advanced PC seem to help more when given early. Even Xtandi now shown to work better early. Remember they thought that HIV was not curable. But as it turned out a cocktail of drugs together seems to have cured many or at least provided very long and durable remissions. Perhaps that will happen with metastatic PC. I respect your opinion Tall Allen. Do you think that’s out of the question to occur in the near future ?

Schwah

[Tall_Allen in reply to Schwah]

I said it was "incurable." I do think it is often a disease one can live with (durable remission) for a very long time, if treated early and systemically. See remarks to cesanon below.

[cesanon in reply to Tall_Allen]

"Metastatic PC is incurable."

Why would you say that? Why would that be?

[Tall_Allen in reply to cesanon]

Most people have the wrong model of metastatic prostate cancer in their heads. They think of it as a weed that crops up: Keep after the weeds long enough and eventually no more weeds. A more accurate metaphor is mushrooms growing at the base of an oak tree. The mycelium extends everywhere throughout the soil and into the roots of the tree. Occasionally, a mushroom crops up. You can pick all the mushrooms you want, but the fungus is never destroyed. There is no way to destroy the fungus short of destroying the roots of the oak tree and sterilizing the soil. This is what "systemic" means.

Can systemic treatment someday POTENTIALLY cure it? Maybe. Cancer, like HIV, hides in reservoirs. It is very hard to get to all the places it may be hiding. It evolves rapidly - any therapy-resistant cells eventually come to dominate. That means that there will always be some cells that don't rely on androgen-receptor activation, some that don't express PSA or PSMA, and some that aren't killed by microtubule stabilization (docetaxel). It also changes the microenvironment in the places where it nests so that they become more fertile for invasion. I'm talking about "cure" rather than "control."

I think that if we are ever going to control it, it will be through multimodal therapies (as for HIV) that attack it from several directions at once. So far, growth pathway inhibitors have been disappointing (the sheer number of growth pathways is daunting and increases as the cancer mutates), as have Immunotherapies - PC does not engender a big immune response and mimics "self" cells. Perhaps, a combination will be more effective - or maybe CAR-T. There is always hope.

[cesanon in reply to Tall_Allen]

Very very Interesting.

[Schwah in reply to Tall_Allen]

That all makes sense. Thx for making a complex problem almost understandable. Seems like dr scholz idea of early chemo lupron Zytega and radiation (on the actual Mets) May have potential. As the drs at ucla told me, “no proof but makes sense and we’d love to see a clinical trial on that...”.

Schwah

[j-o-h-n in reply to Tall_Allen]

Shit... you just ruined my day.

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Saturday 08/04/2018 1:54 AM EDT

[Apollo123]

Hi it is my understanding that the only way to kill PCa cells is radiotherapy removal of prostate or in some cases chemo. I took a while to understand this as I have advanced PCa to the lymph nodes and I searched for a cure for months. I was told that if I had radiotherapy it would be possible to look at cure but due to a PET scan showing numerous microscopic lymph involvement in the chest it was impossible to do radiotherapy. I was devastated at the time. If your cancer has escaped the prostate and gone to numerous lymph or bone it is much more difficult to treat. There are however excellent treatment options that can control this for many many years. I like to think my cancer is currently in hibernation and even though I’m on ADT Zytiga and Pred I live a relatively normal life. If you educate yourself on the disease and learn all available treatments you can feel a lot more in control. There are some men on here with advanced cancer who have had 15+years. 👍 There is a man in my cancer clinic who has been on ADT only for 16 years Gleason 9 with mets who has started Zytiga now due to rising PSA but he is a remarkable responder. A PET scan can assess if you qualify for curative procedures. There has also been a gentleman in the British press who had a total eradication of advanced prostate cancer after having bipolar androgen therapy treatment again a remarkable response. 👍 Hope this helps.

[abmicro]

Dont get hopes up for a cure. I thought I was cured after doing Radiation and Provenge. Radiation oncology said it was too early to do Radiation. Scan showed a very small bone area in the hip that was questionable, and PSA was only 3. I convinced that Radiation doctor to go ahead and gave him a memo from Dr Charles Myers saying radiation of that spot was recommended.

After radiation, I did Provenge. My super sensitive PSA dropped to less than 0.02 and I ran victory laps telling everybody I was cured. A year later, PSA started going up again, slowly. It was a very good and durable remission, and that is the best most can hope for once it has spread. Been in this battle 17 years.