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Advanced Prostate Cancer
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OK so what if any supplements/drugs protect cognitive function during ADT?

Getting ready to start Lupron, probably will be on for a very long time. Have read many discussions about the marked effects on cognition - mood etc. Was hoping there is some science out there, or anecdotal evidence even, that certain nutrition/drug regimes can mitigate

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Cardiovascular exercise is the single best thing you can do to maintain mood, reduce ADT-related fatigue, and reduce fat build-up.. Weight-bearing exercise can help maintain lean muscle mass. You will burn fewer calories, so it is important to watch your caloric intake.

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Yup definitely will to the exercise thing. I am trying not to visualize the Pillsbury dough boy in my future! Daughter says I should do Yoga...Can't visualize farting in downward dog pose at this point...! Any thoughts on phosphatidyl choline or some other such brain food?

My memory already sucks. From reading some of these posts I can definitely sense this is an big issue. Also, logic would say squeezing the neck of the perverbial prostate chicken is bound to squeeze the neck of some innocent bystander neurons as well....so just trying to flush out any glimmer of upside with the ADT stuff at this point...any trade experience on this greatly appreciated. :)

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Phosphatidyl choline is ubiquitous in nature - cell walls are made of the stuff - every plant and animal you eat has lots of it. It is stored in the liver too. It's hard to imagine a non-starving person needing more than a normal diet can supply. I bought a bunch of expensive 'smart pills" back in the day. I recall I was once on an effort to find the most powerful acetylcholinesterase inhibitor I could find as a natural product (this was at a time when they thought it was useful for Alzheimers). I remember the stuff made me flushed, sweaty, and nauseated. I got smarter when I got rid of them.

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I use exercise to deal with my cognitive functions. I was lucky to be able to go to the Huntsman cancer institute and participate in their Wellness program. In this they assigned me a personal trainer who taught me both resistant exercises and cardio exercises that would be helpful for a person dealing with cancer. This has really helped. I have my Senior Sneekers card from my insurance company which I use at the gym each day to go through these exercises. I am lucky, my wife has joined me at the gym, even though she does not have cancer. Doing this daily has helped my brain function better, helps with the fatigue and helps keep my muscles built up.

Good Luck

Dennis

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Yes I will definitely do the exercise for sure. Was wondering about things like lecithin, Phosphatidyl coline or whatever to supplement.? I struggle with memory enough as it is, kind of concerned about double dipping into my already puny brain at this point. Any thoughts there?

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All I can say that after 9 months on lupron and 3 days a week hard weight training I’ve lost weight and gained a little muscle mass. I also felt like I had memory issues but working out hard seems to make me feel great. Although each workout I swear will be my last. Lol guessing there’s no magic pills my friend. Like most things in life you gotta put in the hard work. Works for me. And from this site I’ve learned it works for most.

Schwah .

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I keep it fairly simple on the supplements that I take, here is my list:

Fish Oil 1200 mg (2 in morning,2 at night)

Citracal +D3 500 IU Calcium 630 IU – 2 times per day

D3 50 mcg (2000 IU) 1 per day

Vitamin E 100 IU 1 daily

Vitamin K2 – 100 mg 1 daily

Magnesium 400 mg 1 daily

Selenium 200 mcg 1 daily

Aquaphor skin cream to help control rash

caused by ChemoTherapy - daily ( I have a prescription cream which I use when the rash gets bad after a Chemo treatment which is called Clobetasol Propionate Cream)

8 ounces of pomegranate juice each day

2 tablespoons of concentrated tart cherry juice which I mix into another drink to help with neuropathy in my feet.

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OK, lets look at the whole picture as best as I know, having had to deal with this myself at one time. We need the exercise--both the weight bearing and the cardio. Stimulating blood flow thru this lasts for hours. I found, that doing the exercising at 4-5 PM, buys you a good night and better sleep--but you do need days off for muscle healing, reduction of lactic acid, and muscle size maintenance--as growth is about out of the question on ADT--as you will be real short of T.

As to cognitive enhancement against the ADT drugs---there are a few things you can do. The number one recommended Brain Supplement, even endorsed by traditional Doctors, like Dr. Siegle on Fox News, and Dr. Oz in his Newspaper column---is Acetyl l-Carnitine, I personally do use---just because I am old. Getting more oxygen to the brain is a big help. Going outdoors, in the fresh air and doing deep breathing exercises as the type recommended by Physical Therapists, is an important add on. Now we in Physics, we know the Bernoulli Theory. It basically says if you double the size of the diameter of a liquid flowing thru a pipe, you will halve the pressure. Which in the body we want to make it easy to get bloodflow to the brain. The best non drug approach---is to add L-Arginine--we call it poor man's Viagra--- as it opens up the veins and arteries---I in my youth use to use 3,000 mgs a half hour before sex, and it beat the hell out of Viagra. So lets forget the sex, because you will not have tradition awakenings while on ADT. In my program only--as I am not recommending, just reporting here---I use 2,000 mgs in the morning, and 1,000 before bed.

And lastly--the use it or lose it theory applies here also. I do crossword puzzles, of various difficulties, and I play computer bridge card games, against Robots, that I swear cheat--it is a challenge to beat them, which I sometimes do. So introduce your brain to complex solving modalities.

The above is/was my total approach. You can do your own research as to the supplements. But the rest is quite sensible.

Nalakrats

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L-Citrulline vs L-Arginine.

Which in your opinion is better or does it really matter?

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Thank you I will dive into these options.

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I second the use of Acetyl L-Carnitine. The bottle says it has benefits for cognitive and cardiovascular health. L-Arginine too. Poker is my brain challenge. Off to the World Series of Poker (WSOP) in a couple of days.

WSOP eddie

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Good luck Eddie---I also play competition Bride once a week--only about 50 million probabilities and permutations--and I play against IBM Computer Robots on line---I do not win much.

Nalakrats

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Thanks. I (min) cashed this Monster Stack tournament last year so I'm making my annual pilgrimage to Poker Mecca. At age 68 it is a challenge. They call this the 'poor man's Main Event'. I'll have to run good and stay off tilt.

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Also Green Tea is being touted has great for the Brain, a few times a day ingestion!

Nalakrats

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The difficulty with supplements is that there are so many of them you could spend all your time studying them. On fist diagnosis I took many. D3 and calcium are being advised by prostate oncologists. The rest they are not supposed to comment on. I remember taking 25 pills a day plus noscapine. Now I take D3, calcium and Zyflamend. Toying with the idea of taking dim but everything I take goes alongside allopathic treatment. Currently on Lupron and Xtandi. I am 5.5 years out. Don't know what to think about it. If it continues to work I'll probably continue to do it.

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If you are undetectable with your PSA---why change anything. In my case as I expressed before here on this site--my pathology was so bad--I used all that I knew in following 50 Years of Naturopathy, took the drugs suggested, had them add more drugs which surprised my Docs. And then thru the supplemental kitchen sink at the cancer---as there was no time to experiment with what works and what does not work---the supplements all being GRAS, and having some scientific backup---was how I got to be where I am today. Those that had no value as well as those that did/does---I cannot tell you. Those that did not work were not going to kill me. But I did break things down in an old Post of mine, 10 Modalities to Fight Metastatic Pca--if you have not read it--it was a hot post when I did post it.

As to DIM I am a fan of BioResponse DIM--if not taking Avodart--you might want to study Dr. Zeligs work on DIM.

Nalakrats

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L-Citrulline converts--so I prefer the Arginine as it is almost immediate----20 minutes--and you can vary its use. Like before bed just enough for some extra heart protection, while sleeping, use before sex for performance for those that can still participate, and during the activity part of your day. Many use it prior to workouts, especially the bodybuilders. If you look at the label of most sports enhancing and T increasing claims of supplements---the first ingredient tends to be L-Arginine. Oh and there was a time I used both together, but then eliminated the Citrulline.

Nalakrats

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Foods rich in polyphenols, vegetables, berries, and fruits, should be a big part of your daily diet to improve memory. Go to nutritionfacts.org and learn more about a plant-based diet. Here is a short video provided on memory improvement. In my search of the health promotion literature/research, memory improvement through a pill is less effective than wise selection of the right plant-based food sources.

nutritionfacts.org/video/im...

Your happy vegan, Calbear74

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Estradiol patches changed twice weekly do a good job of reducing hot flushes which are I believe the worst side effects of ADT. Weight gain is number two and and joint pain / strength loss can be a problem as well. Cognition also suffers as does mood. And of course it goes without saying that sex is a distant memory!

Exercise mitigates many of these problems: strength, joints, mood, weight, etc. You’ll actually look forward to doing it . You won’t grow muscle without T but you’ll maintain and even increase strength and endurance. For cognition I do multiple crosswords daily and read a lot.

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You have already gotten so much good specific advice. I have also talked about my husband's forgetfulness. But don't all wives? Depression and preoccupation with the cancer during the low parts of the illness also causes forgetfulness and fogginess for things unrelated to the cancer. It really gets all mixed together though I know the medications put an additional burden on it. Work on simplifying your life too. Some of the "forgetfulness" is preoccupation with getting better and that is exactly what you are supposed to be doing.

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