Advanced Prostate Cancer
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Resveratrol anyone ?

Hi , looking after some supplements that maybe beneficial in my fight I came across Resveratrol.

I've read the discussions here, and there seems to be good reasons why to take it as there are good reasons to avoid it.

Doing my own research on this ,I found that MSKCC says not to use it when dealing with hormone sensitive cancer since resveratrol has hormone like properties which may stimulate the cancer.

mskcc.org/cancer-care/integ...

what is your take on this ?

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The warning is a bit vague.

I remember that Dr Myers, in an old vlog entry, said that some of his CRPC patients had seen benefit. He favored the micronized products, latterly from RevGenetics - Nitro250, I believe. Perhaps an ex-patient could verify.

There was a Muscadine grape skin extract study "men with biochemically recurrent prostate cancer" that reported:

"These data suggest that 4,000 mg of MPX is safe, and exploratory review of a lengthening in PSADT of a median of 5.3 months supports further exploration of MPX." [1]

Muscadine grape skins are very high in resveratrol.

Regarding the effect on hormones, a Danish study found:

"The highest dose of resveratrol lowered the serum level of androstenedione 24% .., dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) 41% .., and dehydroepiandrosterone-sulphate (DHEAS) 50% .., compared to the control group." [2]

Perhaps may restrict adrenal sources of androgen while on ADT?

Many resveratrol studies, but few involving men.

But it is a popular supplement & I don't recall anyone reporting an adverse effect.

-Patrick

[1] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... [Full text link.]

Prostate. 2015 Oct;75(14):1518-25. doi: 10.1002/pros.23024. Epub 2015 May 27.

A phase I study of muscadine grape skin extract in men with biochemically recurrent prostate cancer: Safety, tolerability, and dose determination.

Paller CJ1, Rudek MA1, Zhou XC1, Wagner WD2, Hudson TS3, Anders N1, Hammers HJ1, Dowling D1, King S1, Antonarakis ES1, Drake CG1, Eisenberger MA1, Denmeade SR1, Rosner GL1, Carducci MA1.

Author information

1

Sidney Kimmel Comprehensive Cancer Center, Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, Maryland.

2

Wake Forest University School of Medicine, Winston-Salem, North Carolina.

3

Howard University Cancer Center, Washington, District of Columbia.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

New therapies are being explored as therapeutic options for men with biochemically recurrent prostate cancer (BRPC) who wish to defer androgen deprivation therapy. MPX is pulverized muscadine grape (Vitis rotundifolia) skin that contains ellagic acid, quercetin, and resveratrol and demonstrates preclinical activity against prostate cancer cells in vitro.

METHODS:

In the phase I portion of this phase I/II study, non-metastatic BRPC patients were assigned to increasing doses of MPX (Muscadine Naturals. Inc., Clemmons, NC) in cohorts of two patients, with six patients at the highest dose, using a modified continual reassessment method. Initial dose selection was based on preclinical data showing the equivalent of 500 to 4,000 mg of MPX to be safe in mouse models. The primary endpoint was the recommended phase II dosing regimen.

RESULTS:

The cohort (n = 14, 71% Caucasian, 29% black) had a median follow-up of 19.2 (6.2-29.7) months, median age of 61 years, and median Gleason score of 7. Four patients had possibly related gastrointestinal symptoms, including grade 1 flatulence, grade 1 soft stools, and grade 1 eructation. No other related adverse events were reported and one patient reported improvement of chronic constipation. Six of 14 patients came off study for disease progression (five metastatic, one rising PSA) after exposure for a median of 15 months. One patient came off for myasthenia gravis that was unrelated to treatment. Seven patients remain on study. The lack of dose-limiting toxicities led to the selection of 4,000 mg/d as the highest dose for further study. Median within-patient PSADT increased by 5.3 months (non-significant, P = 0.17). No patients experienced a maintained decline in serum PSA from baseline.

CONCLUSION:

These data suggest that 4,000 mg of MPX is safe, and exploratory review of a lengthening in PSADT of a median of 5.3 months supports further exploration of MPX. Both low-dose (500 mg) and high-dose (4,000 mg) MPX are being further investigated in a randomized, multicenter, placebo-controlled, dose-evaluating phase II trial.

© 2015 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

KEYWORDS:

PSADT; complementary therapy; muscadine grape skin; prostate cancer; rising PSA

PMID: 26012728 PMCID: PMC4537354 DOI: 10.1002/pros.23024

[2] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/259...

Prostate. 2015 Sep;75(12):1255-63. doi: 10.1002/pros.23006. Epub 2015 May 4.

Resveratrol reduces the levels of circulating androgen precursors but has no effect on, testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, PSA levels or prostate volume. A 4-month randomised trial in middle-aged men.

Kjaer TN1,2, Ornstrup MJ1,2, Poulsen MM1,2, Jørgensen JO1,2, Hougaard DM3, Cohen AS3, Neghabat S4, Richelsen B1,2, Pedersen SB1,2.

Author information

1

Department of Endocrinology and Internal Medicine MEA, Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus C, Denmark.

2

Department of Clinical Medicine, Aarhus University, Aarhus C, Denmark.

3

Department of Clinical Biochemistry, Immunology and Genetics, Statens Serum Institut, Artillerivej, Copenhagen S, Denmark.

4

Department of Radiology, Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus C, Denmark.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Resveratrol is a naturally occurring polyphenol with purported inhibitory effects on prostate growth and cancer development. A number of studies have demonstrated that resveratrol reduces prostate growth in animal models and reduces prostate cell growth in vitro. Based on these pre-clinical findings, interest in resveratrol is increasing in relation to the management of benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH) and prostate cancer. So far, no human trials have evaluated the effects of resveratrol on circulating androgens, prostate size, or biochemical markers of prostate size.

METHODS:

In a randomized placebo controlled clinical study using two doses of resveratrol (150 mg or 1,000 mg resveratrol daily) for 4 months, we evaluated the effects on prostate size, prostate specific antigen (PSA) and sex steroid hormones in 66 middle-aged men suffering from the metabolic syndrome(MetS).

RESULTS:

At baseline, prostate size and PSA were positively correlated (R = 0.34, P < 0.007) as was prostate size and age (R = 0.37, P < 0.003). Prostate size did not correlate with testosterone, free testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), or any other androgen precursor at baseline. The highest dose of resveratrol lowered the serum level of androstenedione 24% (P = 0.052), dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) 41% (P < 0.01), and dehydroepiandrosterone-sulphate (DHEAS) 50% (p<0.001), compared to the control group. However, prostate size and levels of PSA, testosterone, free testosterone and DHT remained unchanged.

CONCLUSION:

In this population of middle-aged men suffering from MetS, high dose resveratrol (1,000 mg daily) administration for 4 months significantly lowered serum levels of the androgen precursors androstenedione, DHEA and DHEAS, whereas prostate size and circulating levels of PSA, testosterone, free testosterone, and dihydrotestosterone were unaffected. The present study suggests that resveratrol does not affect prostate volume in healthy middle-aged men as measured by PSA levels and CT acquired prostate volumes. Consequently, we find no support for the use of resveratrol in the treatment of benign prostate hyperplasia.

© 2015 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

KEYWORDS:

17,20 lyase; human clinical trial; prostate specific antigen; resveratrol; steroidogenesis

PMID: 25939591 DOI: 10.1002/pros.23006

[Indexed for MEDLINE]

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thanks Patrick for the elaborated answer.

Its seems to me inconclusive ,but since a respected institution like MSKCC is warning about it I tend to skip consuming Reservatrol

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Sorry you respect the institution[A Thing] more than the Individual Scientists around the world, that have far more experience with the use of Homeopathy and Naturopathy techniques and Supplements than any one Doctor at Sloan.

Suggestion. Next time you are with a MO, Uro, or GP--ask how many hours did they have in school regarding Diet and Nutrition. In the old days of the 60's, when I was working on the first few of my degrees, it was 6 hours--or two, 3 credit courses. I have no Idea what it is today, for Doctors in pre-med, or medical school. I know it is still not a lot. If you have a torn rotator cuff you go to an Orthopedic Surgeon. If you have a systemic disease, then the options can vary.

But, in this forum, there are many Opinions, and You have drawn yours, as to this subject. Our brains are not wired the same way, but I respect the way yours is wired.

Nalakrats

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A combination of Muscadine Grape Seed Extract combined with Trans Resveratrol is a significant way to maximize this IMO--ONLY-- potential vital Polyphenolic Compound, that Patrick provides documentation for.

Double blind studies that Tall-Allen wants for even distilled water, is not possible, as they are not drugs, with financial values, as many of our natural supplements that provide positive results in vitro, and in vivo studies, requires an army of other soldiers[supplements] to have a combined positive affect against Pca. There is a recent study, just this week, that goes to show that taking a lot of 1 or 2 supplements to fight a disease, is far inferior to taking a little of a lot of supplements. So as when relating to Flavones, Polyphenols, Anti-inflammatories and Anti-Oxidants---these combined soldiers, can offer advantages.

Nalakrats

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Supplements are drugs - concentrated chemicals taken for some effect. Without clinical trials for safety and efficacy, how do you know if those drugs are helping or harming. How do you even know what's really in the bottle?

My opinion is that if there's even the slightest suggestion that it may be harmful, it should be avoided. Here's a study in mice that showed arm, and almost everything tests well in mice. They conclude, "Based on these preliminary data that resveratrol may be harmful, caution should be advised in using resveratrol for patients until further studies can be conducted."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

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This reply is "NOT" meant to be sarcastic, and in no way a smartass question, but a real honest question: 'Based on these preliminary data that resveratrol may be harmful'. What happens when you drink red wine, loaded with resveratrol?

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It's not as "loaded" as you suppose. You would have to drink 41 glasses of red wine to get the amount of resveratrol in one 20 mg pill. So drink as much red wine as you like - you'll pass out before you reach toxic levels of resveratrol. Supplements are concentrated drugs - efficacy and safety should be of paramount importance before you take any drug.

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"there seems to be good reasons why to take it as there are good reasons to avoid it."

Exactly. That is true for every drug, every surgical procedure, every test, every supplement, every food, every decision to step outside your door.

Some will advise against trying any supplement that has the least possibility of negative outcomes. If that reasoning was applied uniformly, no one would ever get RP or RT.

Life is dangerous. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.*

As for the "danger" of resveratrol, its a typical hit job by people with a reflexive and financially motivated antagonism towards anything that doesn't contribute to cancer industry profits.

They cite one rather tenuous reference. More below. But they also cite

"In vitro and animal studies show that resveratrol inhibits proliferation of cancer cells via different mechanisms (14) (15) (16) (17) (18) (19). It may also protect against chemotherapy-induced cardiotoxicity (19) (20). Further clinical studies are needed to confirm these effects in humans."

They use reference 18 as a warning not to take it, while ignoring their own reference 19, entitled

Differential effects of resveratrol on androgen-responsive LNCaP human prostate cancer cells in vitro and in vivo.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

When you catch someone presenting just one side of the story, grab your wallet and back away. That second article specifically addresses the concern about estrogen receptors raised in ref. 18. Note that ref 18 was for

1) breast cancer cells

2) in highly genetically engineered cell lines - "resveratrol activated transcription of estrogen-responsive reporter genes transfected into human breast cancer cells." Transfected with genetically engineered plasmids.

Ref. 18 also acknowledged that there are possible good things as well as things that might be of concern when taking resveratrol. The abstract concludes

"The estrogenic actions of resveratrol broaden the spectrum of its biological actions and may be relevant to the reported cardiovascular benefits of drinking wine."

Reference 19 looked into the concern. They reported

"Because resveratrol has been shown to be estrogenic but appears to have low affinity for estrogen receptors (16), we also examined the affinity of resveratrol for ARs in LNCaP cells. As shown in Figure 2E, in a competition assay, resveratrol appeared to have little affinity for ARs, as indicated by its inability to displace fluorescent ligand from ARs."

So while it may be estrogenic for genetically engineered breast cancer frankencells, it doesn't show that effect for one of the standard prostate cancer cells lines used in research.

Then there are dozens of articles with titles like this one:

Resveratrol Specifically Kills Cancer Cells by a Devastating Increase in the Ca2+ Coupling Between the Greatly Tethered Endoplasmic Reticulum and Mitochondria

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/276...

There are dozens, hundreds more.

Its ultimately your choice, and no one else. The truth is there is never certainty about these things.

I take reseveratrol, my reading convinced me that the odds of it helping me were a lot higher than the odds of it harming me. I like Longevinex brand, they have a lot of good papers on their website. But that's just me and my choice. No financial interest.

I also drink red wine. Sometimes I eat red meat. I will not hide under my bed and eat pablum for fear that something I eat or drink or breathe might hurt me. Life is not about avoiding dying; life is about living. I have no idea how much time I have left, but I intend to make the most of it.

Good luck!

*https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708758/quotes

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Myers was a supporter of resveratrol, but all the sudden stopped prescribing it.

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Again strange, he told me in October ok to switch from original life extension resveratrol to nitro micro (very expensive)

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Hmmm 5-6 years ago he promoted the nitro 250. Then he got pissed at them (I think it was for maintaining erratic inventories of product).

In any event he encouraged me to switch to left.org. Sounds like he switched back to favoring nitro 250 in the last year or two?

Is that so?

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Strange, I wasn’t part of any of that

I was with him since August 2010

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Hmmm I have no explaination.

Maybe I should return to the nitro 250.

Though the last batch of containers I got for them we're jammed in a way the I couldn't open the tops. I ended up having to cut the necks of the bottle off to open them. LOL

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Heads or Tails?

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Sunday 05/27/2018 1:53 AM EDT

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Damned if you do...damned if you don’t.

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Myers recommended it and I continue to take it daily, he never said to stop. Dr. Sartor, Snuffy's replacement, also has no problem with me taking it and he does a thorough review of all supplements I take and does not hesitate to advise against something. I use Life Extension brand. Scans and tests remain good so for me, so if it works don't fix it.

One More Cast...

Ed

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Dr Myers also had me continued to take the Nitro 250 during my last appointment. Dr. Turner from Dr. Scholz's office has continued me on it. I think Cesanon might have this confused with Dr. Myers recommendation (to me) not to take Pomegranate anymore. I think the evidence came as ineffective (but I am not sure)

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Agreed I no longer take pomegranate either. Still take Curcumin, vitamin D, calcium and Alpha Lipoic Sustain for chemo related neuropathy - Sartor concurs.

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Hello:

Just my 2 cents, and this only for me, and I'm not telling anyone what to do, but it seems like all the Alpha Lipoic Sustain I've looked at also contain Biotin; for me, when I learned Biotin raises PSA I stopped taking Biotin (took in morning with other supplements along with breakfast for last 4 years). A week after stopping Biotin I had my every 3rd month PSA test and it dropped 0.6... a fluke or coincidental I have no idea, but I've read several places Biotin and prostate cancer don't mix...see what happens a July PSA test.

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Interesting regarding Biotin. Have you come across any studies that suggest Biotin may increase the cancer risk or aggressiveness? I Googled it and there seems to be quite a bit of research on B12, but not much associated with Biotin except the suggestion of rise in PSA. My bone supplement has some Biotin and I'm wondering if I should stop taking that.

Thanks,

Josh

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mayomedicallaboratories.com...

This is just one that I remember, but again this is "me" and again I don't know if a fluke or coincidental; but I stopped taking a biotin supp. altogether, then stopped taking a morning multi vitamin that had biotin in it, and didn't eat any eggs a week before psa test and it dropped 0.6. So again I don't know; and then again maybe now, finally, 2 years after radiation treatment and seeds my psa is beginning to stabilize (hope, hope) and this just so happened when I stopped the biotin...my RO said she conferred with 7 other RO at Northside Cancer Atlanta and they all said I have biochemical failure after all my 2 year psa increases then all of a sudden it is starting to come down; another psa in July, hope its starting a downward trend, or at least stabilizing.

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Thanks.

All I can seem to find are similar articles about the effects of Biotin on PSA measurement, but nothing definitive on Biotin and it's significance in cancer progression or inhibition. I'm probably getting way too far down in the weeds thinking too much about Biotin (and other natural supplements), but just want to be sure I am not doing anything harmful.

Best of luck with the July PSA!!

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when did Dr Myers tell you to end the pomegranate and did he tell you why to do so?

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I saw Dr. Myers last in August and then spoke with him late Sept. I believe he said to discontinue because the newest studies were inconclusive. When flew out to L.A. to see Dr. Turner (my new doc), he concurred with my regimen and recommended change.

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thanks

I was a long time Dr Myers patient and he never brought up these changes strangely.

Can you tell me what other changes in supplements he made as well?

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When did you see him last? Plus remember, he treated everyone differently, so I would not extrapolate my instructions to anyone else. Who knows. Although I did see one other posting which communicated the same information regarding Pomegranate .

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I had a phone consultation in September just before his retirement. He said I can stop pomegranate because most recent studies were inconclusive.

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Sounds consistent with my appointment at the end of August regarding pomegranate

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Hmmm you know you might be right about my pomegranate vs resveratrol confusion.

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Sator refuses to any opinion about supplements. I would not take his silence as anything other than silence.

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Sartor has told me to stop taking two supplements - B12 and fish oil. He reviewed my list of supplements during my last appointment so there has not been silence from him.

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Hmmm I take both b12 and fish oil. He never told me to stop either.

What are the prescriptions you are taking which they might interact with?

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No interactions, he said that b12 (something that Snuffy recommended during our last consult) has been shown to promote prostate cancer. As for fish oil, if I recall correctly, I don't think it is something he believes in due to purity/ quality issues.

Personally, I've been using a lot of good quality olive oil from reliable sources (California Olive Ranch brand) for my daily dose of Omega 3's, a couple teaspoons a day along with using it in cooking, salads etc. And I eat a lot of fish.

You can always send him an email and ask him.

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1. The reason purported reason I am taking b12 is to counteract the depletion of B12 by metformin. Any thoughts on that?

2. Olive oil has Omega 3???? That's interesting?

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Dont know if it helps cancer, but will help your skin. Dont take it with Zytiga or Ketoconozale--serious drug interactions and liver damage.

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"Dont take it with Zytiga or Ketoconozale--serious drug interactions and liver damage."

Are you talking about resveratrol or pomagranate?

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Most herbs and some vitamins (except Vit D), and some juices will cause interactions. I would not risk it if taking together with those drugs.

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Yeah. I guess if you are taking something serious like Zytiga or Ketoconozale you want to stop taking anything else unless specifically recommended by the prescribing Doc.

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Take it with beta glucan to really power up your cells.

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For some time I was taking selenium and vitamin E. There was a study done in the early 2000's where the these supplements were given for one thing and the researcher found a sharp drop in prostate cancer. Not very scientific but hey it won't hurt you. Do your own research and make selection that you feel comfortable with.

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