Stumbled on this article about mood/depression.

[BrianF505]

This morning I awoke and realized I was out of my Sam-E, 400 mg pills. Crap! Sam-E has helped me greatly with mood and depression, but at 4 x 400 mg a day, it is pricey. Anyway, I was searching around looking for less expensive alternatives and came across this article which I thought interesting and want to share with the masses. I have to read again and digest further, but I may rethink the Sam-E and try some of the others herbals suggested here. I hope it can help someone out there.

suzycohen.com/articles/natu...

[pjoshea13]

Brian,

I briefly used SAMe years ago. Here is why it is not a good idea for PCa.

The SAM (SAMe) cycle is, crudely, Methionine-->SAM-->Homocysteine-->Methionine.

SAM is the universal methyl donor in the body. When SAM drops off its methyl to a cell, we are left with homocysteine. Methyl in the diet, largely from folate (or foilic acid fortification), is used to recycle homocysteine back to methionine, which is then converted to SAM. If the cycle is operating smoothly, one should not need SAMe.

A cofactor in this process is vitamin B12. When I injected B12 many years ago, my PSA rose quickly. I began looking for studies. There were some Scandinavian studies that associated folate status or B12 status or, inversely, homocysteine status, with PCa - particularly aggressive disease.

I will just mention the latest study on the subject [1]:

"The association between higher folate concentration and risk of high-grade disease, not evident for low-grade disease, suggests a possible role for folate in the progression of clinically relevant PCa and warrants further investigation."

Why would this be a problem?

PCa cells suck up methyl - they want to be hypermethylated. Methylation of the DNA promoter regions for tumor suppressor genes is common. This never happens in normal cells. Gene silencing via methylation is important for progression.

The importance of the original studies that I found, is that grains are not fortified with folic acid in those countries, so it is possible to have a poor folate status - unlike in America & countries that copied the FDA mandate. You can't easily replicate those studies in the U.S. because the deficient population is small.

I am "fortunate" in having poor uptake of B12, which is essential for homocysteine recycling. I don't really care that my bread & rice contains folic acid. Obviously, I am not about to ingest preformed SAM.

...

Calming suggestions:

Relora [2]. The components also have anti-PCa properties. Proven to lower cortisol, the stress hormone. Use before bed, since cortisol is high before waking. Can also be used during the day. Non-narcotic.

Some find benefit in theanine.

-Patrick

[1] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/270...

[2] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[BrianF505 in reply to pjoshea13]

Looks like Relora comes from the Magnolia tree like honokial - HonoPure - from Econugenics . I took this for a while, but it was very expensive and I needed to find something else. I just checked the pricing on it and it seems quite a bit lower that when it first came out. Might try it again.

[pjoshea13 in reply to BrianF505]

Brian,

Relora, a proptietary product, is repackaged by a number of brands. Here is the Swanson - which might be one of the cheaper:

swansonvitamins.com/swanson...

HonPure is another expensive product from Dr. Eliaz. e.g. Modified Citrus Pectin & Prostate Health Formula.

Here is a clinical trial of relora & stress in women:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

& a study involving men too:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Here is a link to 10 PCa Magnolia officinalis papers:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?te...

& here is a link to 11 PCa prostate "Phellodendron amurense" papers:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?te...

Note that Nexrutine is a sister product of Relora.

-Patrick

[BrianF505 in reply to pjoshea13]

Researching earlier this AM. I'm thinking about giving it a try! Thanks again Patrick

[Hidden in reply to BrianF505]

I’m on the hono pure.

[BrianF505 in reply to Hidden]

When I was taking it, doc had me on 6 twice a day. 1 x 120 cap jar only lasted 10 days. My wallet was unhappy. How much do you take and how is it working for you?

[Hidden in reply to BrianF505]

I take 2 ,250 mg caps twice daily .. for 21/2. Yrs now. I’m not sure. How do we tell if it’s working or not. It’s says for relaxation . I have anger at times and mood swings also. But maybe if I wasn’t on it it could be worse. The oncos that I ve spoke to all say. “Whatever you’re doing? Keep doing it.

[Hidden in reply to pjoshea13]

Wow. So B12 is bad idea for PC? I take omeprazole, a stomach acid reducer, which has the effect of reducing the normal production of B12 from the digestion of meat. B12 deficiencies are said to lead to cognitive or brain health problems. Seems like I'm darned if I do and darned if I don't.

[pjoshea13 in reply to Hidden]

Yes. I flirt with dementia. LOL

The immediate concern is not dying from PCa.

On my most recent blood test, I was below the normal range, but not dramatically so.

If B12 gets too low, I will go back to injecting into belly fat. But infrequently & at a low dose.

I suggest that you monitor your blood too.

-Patrick

[BrianF505]

Ahhhhhhh! Thanks Patrick - did you ever look at Deproloft-HF? I was thinking (after reading the article and before your input) of switching to that and/or Camu-Camu, and 5-MTHF. And after your feedback, I believe some sort of change is imminent. I have to do something for the depression/mood/anxiety. If you don't believe me, just ask my wife!😄

[BrianF505]

Hmmm, just looked a little closer, seems the Deproloft contains 5-MTFH which is the main form of folate. Back to reading more in the article and checking out your suggestion.

[softwaremom00]

Thanks I found the article useful. I think the supplement might be worth a try. Is the Deproloft not good for guys with Prostate Cancer ?

[smroush]

I took a look at the linked article/site. Sorry, but I am highly skeptical about a site which discusses all of these beneficial vitamins or chemicals with no discussions of how to obtain them from foods and then pops up an message box asking if you want info on how to purchase their line of supplements.

[Hidden]

I’m thinking about sam e also . It is costly so thanks for this great info I’ll look into it. Thanks.

[BrianF505 in reply to Hidden]

I was getting the Swanson’s 400 mg. The price is just under $18 for a 30 count in blister packs. If you sign up for emails, you get an immediate 10% off. The emails are annoying, but if you pay attention to them, you can often find discounts up to 25%. That’s when I load up. I also just saw the Doctor’s Best of 60 x 400 mg for $33.00, less than Swanson’s. I need to be on something while I research what to do next so I ordered some. Plus, my wife takes it too.

[Hidden in reply to BrianF505]

Thank you.