Foods/Supplements-Vitamins: Fruit & Vegetables

This Post was prompted by the Ginger thread that WSOPeddie began & to which Neal posted:

"... it's the combination of the compounds in a diet including plenty of fruits & veggies that has the greatest, most synergistic effects."

There are two issues. Can fruit &/or vetables lower the risk of PCa occurrence? If so, can they improve survival after diagnosis?

The second of these is of greatest interest to this group, of course.

The standard treatments tend to rely on the generation of ROS (reactive oxygen species). Most of the plant polyphenol studies show that when NAC (a reliable & powerful antioxidant) was added to an experiment, the benefit ceased - indicating that ROS was involved.

To get the ROS effect, the polyphenols must be at levels where they stop being antioxidants & become pro-oxidant.

I once has a discussion with a guy who felt that cancer could be reversed via a diet rich in antioxidants (physiological levels, not pharmacological levels). His hope was that his PCa cells would become better differentiated (more normal - lower Gleason Number). I don't know if that worked out for him.

I decided that I would stick with the studies & use high-dose supplements.

In my sugar post, I point out that fruit comes with a high sugar burden.

Non-starchy vegetables do not cause a glucose surge. The nutrients:calories ratio make them a valuable component of any diet, IMO. But I doubt that they can have much impact on the cancer.

In a study published this week, involving 15 Prospective cohort studies, "52,680 total cases and 3,205 prostate cancer deaths among 842,149 men":

"Results from this large, international, pooled analysis do not support a strong role of fruits, vegetables ..."

"We did not observe any statistically significant associations for advanced prostate cancer or prostate cancer mortality with any food group (including total fruits and vegetables, total fruits, total vegetables, fruit and vegetable juice, cruciferous vegetables, and tomato products), nor specific fruit and vegetables."

In a 2004 EPIC paper (European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition):

"Data on food consumption and complete follow-up for cancer incidence were available for 130544 men in 7 countries recruited into EPIC between 1993 and 1999. After an average of 4.8 years of follow-up, there were 1104 incident cases of prostate cancer."

"... results suggest that total consumption of fruits and vegetables is not associated with the risk for prostate cancer."

In a 2010 Japanese study:

"During 1995-1998, a validated food frequency questionnaire was administered to 43,475 men aged 45-74 yr. During 321,061 person-years of follow-up until the end of 2004, 339 cases of prostate cancer were identified. Consumption of fruits or total vegetables was not associated with a decreased risk of total prostate cancer ..."

"This prospective cohort study suggests that consumption of fruits or vegetables may not be associated with the risk of either localized or advanced prostate cancer in Japanese men."

...

Three large studies that no doubt disappoint many.

-Patrick

[1] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/284...

[2] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/147...

[3] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/200...

7 Replies

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  • Many thanks Patrick.

    Negative findings can be as important as positive.

    ~ Frank

  • Well, Patrick, I can't argue with the data. I'm thinking maybe fruits & veggies have health benefits not related to PCa? I'm in California, enjoying lots of fresh produce. For me, fruits are ready to eat, salads need a good dressing, & veggies are often best with sauces (spicy Asian sauces are my favorite).

    Neal

  • Neal,

    The problem with any nutrient, potentially, is that a cancer cell might benefit too.

    Have you come across Dr. Fuhrman's food pyramid? He has non-starchy vegetables at the base (heavy duty carbs are on the 3rd level). He does not have fruit with the veg - it is on the 2nd level.

    drfuhrman.com/content-image...

    drfuhrman.com/learn/library...

    -Patrick

  • Thanks for this, Patrick. I'll be giving it a good look. For better (sometimes) or worse (other times), you're turning a lot of info I've been relying on for the last 14 years on its head. Example of for the better: the Peet's French Roast I drank this morning, & the Sichuan Double Cooked Pork at a party tonight. I hadn't been indulging in coffee or pork, as a white tea drinking pescatarian. Example of for the worse: The need to reconsider the advice I've been following to eat multiple fruits, of different colors, & that fructose in fruit wasn't bad for you. The latter would make some folks happy, but I face it with regret.

  • These findings are not surprising...PCa is not a foreign invader but your own cells with corrupted DNA. Most foods that are supposedly good for you are also good for the cancer. Take Nalacrats...his PCa loves Gator meat and and is also partial to Gator Snapping Turtles, which is why on many nights, Nal can be found wading through marshes with a flashlight...Radiation and Chemo are thought to work because of ROS which exploits one of cancers few weaknesses...less than optimal ability of repair mechanisms

    Gus

  • Diet and Prostate Cancer: There is a study out there to support almost anyone's belief!

    Are strict vegetarians protected against prostate cancer?

    Tantamango-Bartley Y1, Knutsen SF2, Knutsen R2, Jacobsen BK3, Fan J2, Beeson WL2, Sabate J2, Hadley D4, Jaceldo-Siegl K2, Penniecook J2, Herring P2, Butler T2, Bennett H2, Fraser G2.

    Author information

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND:

    According to the American Cancer Society, prostate cancer accounts for ∼27% of all incident cancer cases among men and is the second most common (noncutaneous) cancer among men. The relation between diet and prostate cancer is still unclear. Because people do not consume individual foods but rather foods in combination, the assessment of dietary patterns may offer valuable information when determining associations between diet and prostate cancer risk.

    OBJECTIVE:

    This study aimed to examine the association between dietary patterns (nonvegetarian, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, pesco-vegetarian, vegan, and semi-vegetarian) and prostate cancer incidence among 26,346 male participants of the Adventist Health Study-2.

    DESIGN:

    In this prospective cohort study, cancer cases were identified by matching to cancer registries. Cox proportional hazards regression analysis was performed to estimate HRs by using age as the time variable.

    RESULTS:

    In total, 1079 incident prostate cancer cases were identified. Around 8% of the study population reported adherence to the vegan diet. Vegan diets showed a statistically significant protective association with prostate cancer risk (HR: 0.65; 95% CI: 0.49, 0.85). After stratifying by race, the statistically significant association with a vegan diet remained only for the whites (HR: 0.63; 95% CI: 0.46, 0.86), but the multivariate HR for black vegans showed a similar but nonsignificant point estimate (HR: 0.69; 95% CI: 0.41, 1.18).

    CONCLUSION:

    Vegan diets may confer a lower risk of prostate cancer. This lower estimated risk is seen in both white and black vegan subjects, although in the latter, the CI is wider and includes the null.

    © 2016 American Society for Nutrition.

    In comments reportedly made during a press briefing for her new movie SALT, Angelina Jolie discussed her bad experiences with a vegan diet.

    “I joke that a big juicy steak is my beauty secret,” said Jolie. “But seriously, I love red meat. I was a vegan for a long time, and it nearly killed me. I found I was not getting enough nutrition.”

    This is not an uncommon complaint among former vegans; the limitations of the diet require extra diligence to make sure you get proper nutrients.

    FOODPERCENT OF TOTAL CALORIES

    Sweet potatoes69%

    Other vegetables3%

    Rice12%

    Other grains7%

    Legumes6%

    Oils2%

    Fish1%

    Supposedly the people who Live in the Blue Zone are the healthiest and live the longest. This is what they have in common re diet:

    10 Blue Zones® Food Guidelines

    We distilled more than 150 dietary surveys of the world’s longest-lived people to distill the average longevity

    diet. These 10 simple guidelines reflect how the world’s longest-lived people ate for most of their lives.

    By adopting some of the healthy eating principles into you daily life, you too can live longer, better.

    95/5 RULE

    Eat Plants. 95 percent of your food should be fruits, vegetables, grains, greens, beans, and fruits. Use

    olive oil to sauté and spices flavor vegetables. Feel free to eat a cup (cooked) of whole grains daily.

    LIMIT MEAT

    Think of meat as a celebratory food. Portions should be no larger than a deck of cards,

    once or twice a week. Avoid processed meats such as hot dogs, bacon and sausages.

    FISH IS FINE

    Enjoy fish up to three times weekly. Wild-caught salmon or smaller fish like sardines, trout, snapper, cod,

    and anchovies are okay choices. Limit portion sizes to 3 ounces (about the size of the palm of your hand.)

    DIMINISH DAIRY

    Avoid dairy when possible. If cheese is a must, try ice-cube size portions of sheep (pecorino)

    or goat (feta) cheese to flavor foods. If you eat eggs, limit intake to 3/week.

    DAILY DOSE OF BEANS

    Eat a cup of beans daily spread out across breakfast, lunch or dinner. All beans count, including tofu. They

    contain high quality protein and fiber. If you buy canned beans, avoid added salt, sugar and chemicals.

    SLASH SUGAR

    Consume only 28 grams (7 teaspoons) of added sugar daily. Reserve cookies, cakes, and candies for special

    occasions. Read labels and avoid foods with more than 8 grams of sugar. Make honey your go-to sweetener.

    SNACK ON NUTS

    Eat a handful of nuts daily: almonds, pistachios, walnuts, hazelnuts, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds,

    Brazil nuts, and peanuts. Try different nuts so you don’t tire of them. Avoid sugar-coated nuts.

    SOUR ON BREAD

    Eat only 100% whole grain breads or authentic sourdough bread made from live cultures. Limit bread

    to two slices daily. Chose whole grain corn tortillas over flour tortillas. Avoid white breads and wraps.

    GO WHOLLY WHOLE

    Try to eat only whole foods or processed foods with fewer than 5 ingredients: If it’s manufactured

    in a plant, avoid it. If it comes from a plant, eat it.

    DRINK MOSTLY WATER

    Drink six glasses of water daily. Feel free to drink unsweetened teas and coffee. Enjoy Wine at 5

    with friends or with Blue Zones inspired meals. Avoid all sugar-sweetened and diet sodas.

  • Kuanyin,

    The study was concerned with PCa incidence - not survival. My contention is that after diagnosis, one cannot rely on commonsense.

    The vegan diet benefit was not statistically significant for black people(!) If it's good, shouldn't it be good for everyone?

    For many, a vegan diet is one of deficiency. I have been to vegan sites which claim that the body can make marine omega-3 fatty acids in sufficient quantity & that bacteria in the gut can make all the vitamin B12 that one needs, & so on. Veganism loses some of its credibility if supplements are essential, so I understand the logic - somehow the body must cope, so deficiency must be denird. But many times, it clearly doesn't cope.

    Vitamin D status is generally poor. No vitamin D milk, of course. Fortified foods are out because D3 is made from sheep wool lanolin. D2 is foreign to the body & has poor bioavaiability - & shouldn't be needed anyway. But there is sunshine, of course, provided one is not Swedish, Canadian, Scotish, etc.

    Calcium status is often poor. Iron & zinc can be problematic.

    There is a potential PCa survival benefit to B12 deficiency. B12 is a cofactor in methyl production.

    -Patrick

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