Holy Cow...Testosterone + Estradiol = PCa Brain Cancer

[gusgold]

After reading the article below I am not taking testosterone boosting supplements or even testosterone itself....not enough is know about the long term prognosis...for now it looks like the best bet is to make friends with Xtandi.

ergo-log.com/teston6.html

[pjoshea13]

Here is a link to the full text of the 2008 paper:

clincancerres.aacrjournals....

What I find odd is that:

"Both patients had low hormone levels."

"At time of diagnosis, serum levels of total testosterone were 182 and 154 ng/dL (reference range, 350-720)"

Also strange is the presence of E2 in the mix:

"Hormone analysis for total testosterone (Chiron Corp. Diagnostic) revealed that the HHDS contained testosterone and estradiol."

Why would there be E2 in a body-builder supplement? After all, the product also contained chrysin:

"Chrysin is a popular nutritional supplement among male body builders and other athletes because of its aromatase-inhibitory action blocking metabolism of ... testosterone to estrogens"

Adding Bicalutamide to cells with the product did not prevent growth:

"These findings suggest that the HHDS product stimulates prostate cancer cell growth effectively, bypassing the androgen receptor pathway in prostate cancer cells, while also rendering the cancer cells resistant to standard antiandrogen therapy."

I don't know what to make of that. Doesn't seem to be a response to androgen.

-Patrick

[gusgold in reply to pjoshea13]

Patrick,

what is amazing is the white male had PCA in the bones, lungs, and brain with a Gleason 6...strange how a GS6 could be so aggressive

[pjoshea13 in reply to gusgold]

Gus,

We should be wary of anecdotal cases, but perhaps particularly so in this case. If you spend time in bodybuilding sites - & you can learn a lot about hormones there - you realize that these men are dosing themselves with all sorts of stuff, in search for the perfect body. The two men probably had a history of using such products long before the HHDS product.

-Patrick

[AlanMeyer in reply to pjoshea13]

Interesting article.

It looks like the researchers did an impressive job. Instead of just speculating about cause and effect they cultured tumor cells from the two patients and grew them under varying conditions with HHDS and bicalutamide, and repeated their experiments to be sure they weren't flukes.

I don't know how the results should affect our thinking about testosterone supplementation. As you say, there were surprising things in the HHDS capsules. It could be something in there that no one has thought of is responsible for the problems. But it does indicate that people shouldn't casually assume that over the counter supplements are safe - especially when they contain hormone type products.

[JoelT]

The take away on this study is that supplements can not be assumed to actually contain what we are told they have in them. There is no FDA or similar agency monitoring what actually goes into them. All supplements must be used with caution and concern.

Joel