The site needs to remove or prevent spouses of people with ADD/ADHD off of this site. They should post in another area for spouses, or on another site, altogether.
These people are nearly always ignorant of ADD/ADHD , yet come on here to get validation for abusive and non-ADD/ADHD behavior that they describe and ascribe to their spouse who is either diagnosed by a professional or by themselves. They do more harm than good for us with ADD/ADHD, because they use the diagnosis of their spouse to ascribe every bad behavior under the sun to it, whether it be tempertantrums, narcissism, sociopathy, etc…
I am truly sick of this, and it renders this place unusable for those of us with ADD/ADHD; not for support or knowledge of the condition. It has gotten to the point where these spouses come on here and will have whole conversations with other NON ADD/ADHD ignorant people such as themselves, essentially talking over people like me who come here for support and understanding. This honestly has a negative effect on our psyches to read these kind of putdowns, constantly. I hate to break it to some of these people, but the problem doesn’t lie with ADD/ADHD, it lies with your abusive spouse or you yourself who has some psychiatric issues, possibly cluster b personality disorders.
It is bad enough that most people outside of here will call this disorder fake, but to have people posting constantly about how people who have it are abusive and a lost cause, and have symptioms to what is better fit to cluster b personality disorders instead of an executive function disorder, is in fact mentally abusive to those of us who know these are not symptoms of ADD/ADHD. Some emotional dysregulation is not akin to the kind of abusive behavior that is described. Frustration that can lead to some anger eventually, from not being listened to, from constantly being blamed, from being around people who refuse to cede that this is a real ailment with real physical changes in the brain, is a normal side effect that anyone woukd ho through. It is not abuse. Exploding rages, cheating, and every other bad behavior you can possibly imagine, is.
ADD/ADHD is not a catch-all for your partner’s bad behavior. These people need to seek help outside of this board, which is for those of us trying to navigate it and need all the support and understanding we can get.
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rubystarsapphire
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I disagree. Totally. Pre-raphaelite gemstone-who-can't-decide-which-one-to-be, I get you, but no.
I find it very interesting how people close to them experience their person of interest/person-they-once-chose with ADD/ADHD. What's one's emotional dysregulation can be another's abuse and cause of/big factor in their unhappiness.
It is very difficult to separate symptoms of EUPD/BPD from ADHD and other psychiatric/neuropsychiatric "afflictions" and one can have either or both or 3 things or something else altogether.Symptoms may be linked to "physical" illness or characteristics, a slow brain, a fast brain, testosterone, oestrogen, other fearsome chemicals, they may be habitual responses, responses to other people's neurodiversity, genetic, products of early socialisation, abuse, bullying, family dynamics, multigenerational socialisation, dementia or inbreeding (I loved to add that one - see disinhibition and humour below), and without knowing a person and having oneself enough psychiatric/psychological training one should try to refrain from diagnosing others. Or oneself! Especially oneself!!!
Symptoms may have a survival advantage, just like responses to symptoms do. Even bullying, NPD and EUPD have, as scientists suspect and are on the way to prove, survival advantages for individuals, groups, species.
Another great book, by the way: The Ape in the Corner Office. You may find it on Ebay or other such sites.
Books are great but not all can be found in them. Whoever feels they may have a problem in any part of life that isn't balanced out properly by the good should look for expert help. Especially those who like themselves to be their preferred expert.
How can what applies to gas supply and DIY not also apply to that much more complex thing, the brain?
Those who think they have ADHD, Autism, other "invisible disabilities", or anything at all that makes them do things but they cannot be held responsible for should strongly consider having their suspicions validated. If they don't want to they open themselves up to the possibility - which deep down they know exists - that they are perfectly healthy morally responsible adults. Not disabled after all. Not different. Not exotic. Just boringly average. Oh no, what a bummer.
Btw I don't think ADHD is best. You get away with much more with the narcissist label. Also easy to fake. Just be who you are in your dreams when all that subconscious comes up.
Those who can't get their loved one to see one - ladies with ADHD husbands, I know of your sufferings, I once had a BF with ADD/ADHD, the worst kind: self-diagnosed (20y before MY diagnosis which I still doubt at times but hey, who cares - the drugs are great! Also always an option for the ladies with the husbands. There will be something out there for you to take if you think he's worth it. Totally justified. They can't force a divorce. Even if it's his money - unless you are better off after. Or his other advantages...) AND a psychiatrist on top of it - should themselves see a psychiatrist. Prevention is everything. Don't wait for the inevitable crisis of bad news, having to find a motel, him not leaving because he won't move into one, your children crying their still good and mostly innocent hearts out (some of the worst days of my life when my father ran out the door and we children followed screaming in utter despair, waking up the whole street, eventually finding him sitting in the car in the closed garage, mute, emotionally refrozen and all alone. He must have felt completely alone and I am still haunted by the vision) or suicidal thoughts. Elective divorce is not always bad news in my opinion. It can be the one way out that makes sense. Best for all and oneself. Not to mention the adventures that await.
All said by a single woman, oh dear!
No, but honestly, I think many more people should consider investing in a psychiatric MOT from time to time. The relief alone is worth the money. And the lust for life ahead if you ask what this visit may change. Like with a colonoscopy. And your brain cannot be less important than your 🖇🥐🪱💅.
Actually no, any diagnosis by a psychiatrist is worth celebrating. If it's not you, it's them. And if it's you, there is poor little you and the drugs.
Partners, friends, family, everyone who suffers some of their time (not believing in an afterlife, for me the clock is ticking on how much happiness/contentedness/peace one can find to make up for those miserable moments one can't avoid, so let's hurry) but also those, especially those, who MAKE suffer yet think they are normal, in fact asphyxating others whilst being so dum6-🍑-incredibly lucky they are still tolerated and even loved by some should see one.
And this is common. Who of us isn't? Being a moron to someone else.
Someone on this forum recommended the book 'Surrounded by Idiots' to me once.
Eternal thanks to that person. It has completely changed how I relate to and what I think of others. "Reading" others has changed. Still can't read myself though but know of some who can't stand me. Unfortunately they mostly avoid me so I'm not learning anything new. Where I found out I could mostly mend when I wanted to.
Some, I admit, I like to keep as enemies. It's healthy and they don't need to know. Or they do. Some do. Ok?
In terms of going about it, a couple of private psychiatrist appointments can't cost so much more than a holiday abroad, a new TV, a smart phone upgrade etc. Maybe all three together but it doesn't kill. Those much loved objects don't make us lastingly happy. Let's downgrade or sell something and invest in our future sanity and personal peace finding mission instead.
It will be the better investment if you aren't of the opinion you are 100% perfect to others the way you are. Look at your enemies and realise most of them will have a person, a child, a dog who likes them.
I once again indulge myself with my pyramid scheme of ideas. And a born narcissist. A re-born, liberated ADHD male-child-at-heart. I should but I don't feel sorry. Even if I bore. I enjoy it.
But sorry to the lady with the husband.
Essenz: drag him to see his psychiatrist and be in there with him some of the time. Tell his psychiatrist how life is like with him as your husband. Don't hold back. He obviously doesn't. Ask his psychiatrist if he may have a dual diagnosis.
And get the answer.
Then ask if there is something you can do and where it stops being realistic. If he will ever change into the minimum of what you want him to be. Then, with that heart full of more questions, tears, regrets, resolve, perhaps tiny glimpses of calm, sunny days, a new romance, a what-I-always-wanted-but-put-off, a blissful old age with someone caring march on and onto your own psychiatrist's couch. Then start talking.
And don't forget to ask about symptoms of Alzheimer's, other dementias, depression and comorbidity with certain chronic illnesses eg ischaemic heart disease especially in middle-aged and older angry men.
And - but don't get overanxious now - in striking behavioural changes completely at odds with their character ask about brain cancers and cancers that can metastasise into the brain. Ask Dr Google and your companion's GP as well.
As someone with ADHD and Generalised Anxiety Disorder with multiple, deeply felt depressive episodes since age 10, desperation followed by helplessness and eventually, palliatively, but importantly mitigated, live saving and enhancing drugs, comedy (helplessness and laughter must be one neurological unit), other dysfunctional, self-diagnosed "normal" people around me but also some dear friends/important people with affective disorders, psychosis (one a friend, one an almost-friend, plenty beautiful minds amongst others I met), possibly a number of PDs, definitely more ADHDs and others, a still tricky work situation, several 🏗u🤏🎋e🍤d 🦭👎jobs, bosses who liked me, bosses who hated me, confused bosses, living alone - no surprise you will think - after multiple failed relationships having a tendency to stick my tentacles into, but also attract, other challenged/challenging individuals, being middle aged, overweight, white, lazy but healthy with a body I COULD condition and physical attributes that fortunately don't let me stand out in any way (this is not a sex advert by the way, just wanting us all to have a look in the mirror at ourselves and imagine we had worse earlobes, more than 2 receeding chins, more hair growing out of nostrils or on nipples, a monobrow or untreated Recklinghausen's or we were living in DRC, Sudan, Afghanistan, Ukraine or in Upper Thong) and very outspoken, but with an endless capacity to feel joy and find enjoyment in other people wanting themselves and others to be/become happy, being entertained by trying to give others a happy moment or two, work giving me that fantastic opportunity despite being a top notch sh1tsh0w sometimes, having shelter, water, food and warmth aplenty, comfort through the welcoming, genuinely positive responses of others to my attitude including my judgemental, rigid interludes, my sarcasm, my disinhibited SoH and my sometimes explosive impulsivity, living in one of the richest countries on Earth, I welcome and invite hereby all of you dear people out there to make it a friendly, informative, enlightening, forward thinking, all-inclusive and fun-embracing group for all our benefit. Nobody is entirely normal. We are all "diverse". Just one very limited clot of neurochemicals could survive, of this and after millions of years trial and error a tiny subclot is now called neuro-typical. And who knows? Millions of years from now it may be an ADHD-NPD-spouse cluster we all have sprouted from.
There are as many of us as femtograms of Dopamin floating between synapses in the average gram of a ADHD-endowed's frontal lobe.
I hope to hear and learn much more from you dopamin- and norephedrin-powerhouses!!!
Your disagreement is fine in the group. However your snarky and disrespectful "naming" is way out of line.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one is entitled to make fun of others and go off on a "rant". Don't bother replying to others questions unless you're interested in being helpful or at least being respectful of each individual.
In my opinion, you owe rubystarsapphire an apology. She sounds like she's had a difficult time with "neurotypical" people putting her down, and other unpleasant interactions.
I've now reread my reply to RSS twice and find that "snarky" may apply to making fun of the name he/she gave herself.
After that I don't know, really? Am I snarky? All the way through??? Making fun of RSS? I'm not! I'm making fun of nothing in particular, it just falls out of my brain, over the edge of my missing frontal lobe and into my mouth/finger. I must put on the breaks more. I think it happens when something tickles me, an association of sorts, and as the opportunity arises between the serious stuff, the "subject", as I try to reason and explain in all seriousness and with good intentions, I just can't help it. I'm a depressive with migraine, with many days of my life lost to both and forever. Comedy, cynicism and sarcasm therefore help. I get a real buzz out of it. Especially the shameless kind. But I absolutely get you of course. There's a limit. No need to repeat if you care to respond. I get it.
But then you say it's a rant. Seriously??? Surely not! How can it be? I'm happy writing, happy because hyperfocused and on my favourite pastime and subject (me me me) AND on the drugs. AND the sun is shining and I'm off work.
Once or twice I've asked for advice. Once I was truly devastated. That's the post about me and my siblings and yes, I wouldn't like that to be made fun over either. Having said that it would probably help me to see it not quite so seriously.
I'm always happy when I read and reply to other people's posts. I don't FEEL this degree and this kind of offensive sarcasm that you mean so I can't intend it. I'm usually also trying to help. With balance. In RSS's case I felt I wanted to help with explaining to her/him why I wanted to help the unlucky, troubled lady with the ADHD husband. I felt if he/she understood it would be for all our benefit.
I'm constantly flying off ADHD style ok, and in a BIG way, I know it's tiring but, again, a choice: do I bore or do I entertain myself? If I'm kicked out of here because I'm a bore or too wordy then ok. I have to take it.
I think I'm a bit more extreme in general, but we all talk about ourselves. Also the subject, the post-er and their issue and then some more about ourselves.
I can also see and agree that I'm going off on tangents A LOT and this time completely away from RSS's agenda for a while. Sorry RSS. But I always return to the argument. Or something in that context.
My reply reads therefore possibly inconsiderate and grandly egotistical - sorry again, and no, Blessedlady, it's not autism and neither bipolar - but it's unintended and not to insult, hurt, ignore.
I just felt it was the other lady/gentleman - the one with the husband - who was being attacked on top of her husband's treatment of him/her and whom I wanted to show support.
I can see that to RSS it is a real big NoNo that spouses write, and for some reason I don't quite (yet?) understand he/she feels violated by his/her post and similar ones to the degree she/he calls it offensive and/or negligent of her/his needs and needs to "have them removed". That's quite something!
So I'm a bit at a loss here, but dear RSS, if I have hurt your feelings by ridiculing the name you gave yourself I apologise profusely. I wouldn't want you to call me Lemur either. Also if you feel I haven't honoured your pain. Tolerance exceeds to us all.
Besides, one should not throw stones out of glass houses and I surely have my own sensitivities. I've shown plenty of them see posts/replies and I'd be PI🐛🪱🪱ed if I was crudely misunderstood or coldy made out to be an idiot, especially when I'm down on my knees already.
If it was, however, meant with trust in my intelligence, self-worth, mildly self-deprecating and other sense of humour (and I hoped my reply would overall show that I do speak to you honestly and with respect to you as another adult and equal) I wouldn't be quite so annoyed or hurt, but don't think I want to tell you how to feel. That is not how I want anything I say to come across. Your feelings are yours, they are real, true and important.
The Cat is right to point it out that I've gone overboard. He is also a true gentleman and it's nice to have him here. I also enjoy reading his stuff.
I am also really sorry and embarrassed before everyone if people think I can only think and write like this. I sometimes can't help it and then have to decide if I keep my mouth shut or not. I probably should be quiet then, but I couldn't. I felt bad and ashamed and small and put in my place.
Then I felt really annoyed with the Cat and at first didn't want to apologise to RubyStarSapphire at all. A bit later I did. And also explain.
I don't want to have to leave the group. I need it. I think I do and I haven'tfound a better one. And it would depress me really really badly if I was seriously asked to leave.
So, a final big Sorry to all and RubySS.
I'll be better.
Now, to explain why I felt at the time a comment was needed: there is one thing that irked me. Two.
Shutting out the spouses in the way it was done - they suffer, too you know and, RSS, I'm still not sure how you mean it when you say they "talk over you" or use/abuse/offend you in any way; I haven't read one post or reply from an ADHD spouse/family/friend doing that and in fact they are rather respectful of us poor things - sorry, so Shutting out the spouses in this way is just not nice.
They aren't a different kind of human, they are the people I want to get on with and who I love. I have lots and lots of fantastic dear friends, family (the wider one) and work mates who totally get me and I them.
We have a hell of a time and without them I'd be lost.
If anything, in my opinion, those on the forum deserve our admiration and kudos for standing by us and seeking help, trying to understand "us" by courageously asking us (btw "we" aren't the same. I probably have more in common and more mutual immediate understanding with many a non-ADHD person than with some of "us". There are eg a lot more neurobiologicals than Dopamin, Serotonin and Norephedrine, more chemical pathways, lobules and lobobulules in the brain, we just don't know them all yet.)
The suggestion to have a mixed group, GatsbyCat, is therefore a good one and I'd be the first to join. But here we have one and if someone wants out of this currently nicely inclusive group - minus one or some - why don't THEY start a subgroup? One where ADHD sufferers are amongst themselves. I think it's good to be a mix. More reflective of the real world. I like this throwing back and forth of old and new ideas, views, opinions and especially spiced up a bit when controversy comes in (instead of just reading about stories of problems and suffering replied to with compassion then another personal story. I don't NOT feel "safe" if "neurotypicals" ask and tell us their stories. Btw they don't exist. No-one is neurotypical.
Don't get me wrong, there must be a place where one should feel good and not inhibited about sharing one's story. But Non-ADHD don't take up space, they make us think, they make us help and by telling the spouses how they could help "us" we help ourselves. By explaining it to a third person we make it more rational and less personal which can help us in our own relationships.
I think disembodying ADHD from time to time doesn't do us any harm. Spouse enables that for me in a way. Spouse also makes me feel good about being able to help. More normal. Useful. Proud.
I always have a bad taste throwing someone out of a group formally. It's for me a NoNo. It isn't done. One doesn't do it. One can't do it. It's horrible. Imagine yourself in their shoes.
Besides, as said, I personally benefit from the viewpoints and comments of spouses friends, family, strangers.
Back to what else made my ears go back in RSS's post:
This thing you do in some of your replies, suggesting that other people we don't even know have BPD and even including the spouse her/himself - in this post on the basis that the word "abuse" (and I think the spouse meant verbal abuse) was used - is something you've been doing a few times. Why is that? Do you know or suffer yourself under people with PDs/EUPD? If yes, I would understand. In any case, if someone does that to others and at the same time has their very own black and white/good and bad, very categorical distinctions it always makes me a bit wary. And what about ourselves? What about other sweeping derogatory comments re our fellow humans? Can we perhaps be a bit more considerate? Understanding of those we say have hurt us? Or is it too much to ask ourselves? Is it a NoNo to point it out to each other that the "perpetrator" also has feelings and maybe doesn't always deserve our wrath,
Telling someone they probably have BPD is something I wouldn't do to my average enemy. Only the very very worst.
I might wonder about if it's friend or family and try my best to persuade them to see a psychiatrist who I would tell of my worries if I have a chance.
But we shouldn't do it to people in this group. Writing hurts just as much as saying it in someone's face.
That's my opinion.
Completely ok if people disagree. Completely ok if people have the feelings they have even if they are very anti someone else. But let's not treat anyone as alien/s, let's not use our anger with this that and the other to justify driving individuals out of a group and let's not instrumentalise the group to get behind us. That hurts. We are all in the same boat at the end of the day. We all want to be loved and dialogue is good and nurturing. Letting off steam and sorrow and asking for others' opinions and help may be the purpose primarily, but "views of the other side" help when we feel calm again.
Enough said.
So, GatsbyCat, KittyCat - I hope you forgive me, too. I have love and sunshine in my heart and it's important that I am reminded to shut up when it's that time again. After all, I'm a hominid already ;^)
RubyStarSapphire, please write back and let's be friends.
Interesting thoughts about non-ADHD posting on this forum. I can see both sides.
It could be interesting to read what a nonAdhd person says about their partner/spouse/ significant other and their reactions to the ADHD partner. I do agree that put-downs or disrespect need not be tolerated.
AND, I think a non-ADHD support group would be helpful too, as we can be quite a handful, let's admit it. From 0 to 60 in less time than a Formula I race car!
ADDITIONALLY, looking at a Venn Diagram, there could be an overlapping group with both ADHD and the nonAdhd folks.... Hmmm... some possibilities to look at for the groups.
Consider that the CDC quotes 9.4% of the population (in year 2022) has ADHD, According to this, we are definitely in the minority. I do think MOST nonADHD people come here because they are trying to learn more about ADHD behavior, solutions and how to cope with their partner through strategies we've developed that actually work.
That’s nice of you, Gatsby, but I didn’t read his posts, so his apology would mean nothing to me. You can just tell when someone’s high off their own farts on here, and just skip that sh*t, lol
I wrote this orig post a while ago and I still hold to it. There’s a constant wave of nonADD people coming on here, a space that should be for us people with ADD, and complaining about their ADD spouse of bf, gf…. Nearly all of them are abusive, and they come here for validation, or to just spew their hatred for the spouse, etc.
Everything I wrote originally is true. A lot of these people have a spouse who got an ADHD diagnosis, and they want to come here and ascribe every abusive thing under the sun to the person with the diagnosis. There are also a lot of people on here who supposedly have ADHD and live to gaslight and be abusive towards those of us who have it. We shouldn’t have to put up with the same gaslighting here, that we get everywhere else. I don’t use this forum for support or help because I am sick to death of those types of abusers being on here. They seem to be the most prolific posters on here too. I bet the poster I didn’t read up there is one of those abusive clowns.
Anyway, I had my say and 10 people agreed with me but were too scared to posts, evidently. Same thing out in the world. People just suffer in silence with this problem until they can’t take it anymore. Then they come here for more gaslighting and abuse.
Let me also add, these spouses are looking for validation in order to blame their sig others. These are the same types who deny the sig other has ADHD and gaslight them to the point they lose their temper . These are not the people who want to read up on ADHD and be supportive, because they could have learned it in therapy with their sig other…which is whats needed. Even if its just one appointment where the therapist who can explain it to the spouse, what it is, offer materials and help, etc. Those people are rare, on here.
It really does come off as abusive spouses seeking validation to blame the person with ADD, and who do not stick around to learn anything about the disgnosis or how to support their spouse. These posts hardly ever start out as, ‘Im here to support my spouse.’ They start out with a litany of blame, while seeking validation. A lot of these spouses sound abusive as all hell.
And let me further (as a woman)add that a lot of them seem to be women, and this is a toxic trait of women, specifically. Looking to undermine another through arbitrary validation, so that they can be as abusive as they want to the spouse, because they had support and so feel entitled to it, unfortunately. Mean Girl tactics.
That said, men come on here too , to do this, just not as much as women do, and there’s a reason for that. Most men do not feel they need to be validated to be abusive, like that j.a. poster, up there.
I think it's fine for partners to post here. For multiple reasons. One, I've learned A TON about ADHD from reading about partners experiences with their ADHD spouses.
Yep, despite how well I think I know myself (I've done tons of therapy and reading), there have been elements of the condition that I learned about from reading the posts of partners.
I'll get really specific. ADHD really makes relationships hard. Really. Especially if you're under-treated and doubly so if you are in a job that is a mismatch for your ADHD. In fact, I've been inspired by reading posts of partners reporting their ADHD spouses coming home mentally exhausted after work and then going and hiding for hours. I get why the spouses do that. In the wrong job, you have to spend all your mental energy not being fired, meeting deadlines, completing things on time, going to meetings in the middle of the day and then having to redirect your attention back to tasks you're working on.
I developed more compassion for myself and for ADHD people in relationships because I can see how easy it is for us to feel guilty about spacing out at the end of the day. Then the spouse complains and the ADHD person can feel shame. Can feel like their mother/father is criticizing them. Feeling like you're being chastised by a parent is disastrous for romance and health relationships.
Just my view: I have learned a lot from partners.
Also, the truth is there are lots of ADHD adults who are lost and don't accept that they have ADHD and so their partners are trying to be helpful. And they come onto this site and others to get informed. I'm fine with that.
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Anyone else gone from 36mg to 54mg of Concerta XL and suddenly it no longer works?
Diagnosed at 60 and learning new vocabulary
Struggling to connect, always starting the conversation
Is this a good idea?
