So I have gotten a lot of resistance as a lot of the people I have talked with seem to insist on past diagnosis. As a 33 year old, I have been around the block and gone through many seasons and it seems like the more stress I face amd less desire I have in the the more I avoid doing things.
This time around I have a significantly different life and I am fearful that being unable to manage myself will lead to serious consequences as I am married, have a 19month old, and another on the way.
The last psychiatrist I talked with wants me to explore my depression and anxiety in tandem with ADHD. My past a d knowing myself, I believe thay my depression and anxiety stem from the ADHD. I do not act unless the anxiety peaks and I am compelled to get the task done. Because I do not act when I have the time, the tasks build up and the stress increases. From there I'm either immobilized or freak out.
The past year there have been days that I get at best 1-2 hours of work done. Often enough Monday mornings are a waste. A few weeks ago I'm pretty sure I had a panic attack because ir was Monday, that I was afraid of getting organized, that I was afraid to deal with people. I have maybe had 2 of these panic attacks in my life before so it was odd.
School and now work is either feast or famine. If I enjoy, I thrive but often I glaze over and ignore details and can never seem to follow along. I have figured out that although I may be able to manage myself, my biggest problem is staying motivated. I hate being subject to emotion as I am an engineer, although avoiding licensing due to testing.
I would love some input, something to read here, and i guess to introduce myself. Please share something inciteful, I'm here to take a step forward and minimize the steps backwards.
Oh, I have also been caught up in the cerebral nonsense lately and the issue they're dealing with. Apparently they are being investigated, they diagnosed me again. I did 2 months of amoxitine and ended up even more tired and exhausted than I already was. Theybthen prescribed generic adderal and I have been notified that due to this investigation they will not be continuing the perscription as I am a relatively new patient.
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Man I know how this feels. How awful that you can’t get reliable medicine for helping you due to this investigation. It may be worth while seeking out a new healthcare provider.
In the meantime, I have a couple of things I found recently that have been super helpful for me so maybe it will help. One is a YouTube channel called How to ADHD. She has a video called “How to Deal with Rejection Sensitivity” and ADHD and motivation - which talks about motivation bridge. Both of these videos really made a difference in my understanding of what I’m dealing with and I think may help you a lot. There’s also something called executive dysfunction disorder that I’m learning I have in combination with my ADHD. I would work to learn what you can about it, and also get a therapist that can help you in addition to the medication.
Lately I’m learning that bulletjournaling is the most effective way for me to keep track and help me. The biggest thing to understand is to keep trying. When we think things aren’t new any more - we sometimes throw out the routines and it causes havoc.
Just know you aren’t alone and learning as much as you can will help. We really do function different than other people, so you have to be easy on yourself. It’s not your fault, but it’s your responsibility. And the more you learn - the better you will be able to manage the dysfunctions that come with this condition.
I can relate to most of what you’re saying, so I can imagine how helpless & shitty that must feel. I just joined this thing hoping to find the answers to similar questions.
I’m not an expert but I’d say you need to work on finding a more qualified psych that can diagnose & treat you properly, unfortunately there are a lot of so-so dr’s out there that just throw a dart at the diagnosis board or the Rx board and call it a day. Do yourself a favor and get a 2nd opinion, if not a 3rd, yes it takes more money & time but could yield a priceless result.
I dont know if i expected answers, but i like seeing all the wordiness everywhere. i swear i just need like.. a thought buddy, whoever is the most recent person i've texted tends to bear witness to me goofing myself into a journal entry as i add more to the previous text lol. just actual feedback would be nice sometimes lol, the past 4 years, i swear all i hear all the time is "well, you're not wrong"... i want to shake them "i have no idea if i'm trying to be right about anything". hard to find responses that can confirm the previous was actually read, let alone understood, i know that's outside of realistic expectations lol.
I'm working on the second opinion and I think I need to seek out someone who has the flexibility I need. I really appreciate the telemedicine teleconference stuff, but missing work is stressful as my tasks will only build up. Not only does the work pile up but the fact that I am not there is stressful. I know if I talked with my boss about this, I'd get little guidance and assurances back with support. Not to say there is non but the job is the priority.
With all this stuff with being prescribed and then denied a med, I'm concerned that I have been shown a way forward which will be shut down and closed off. Day 1 on the generic adderall I saw focus and clarity, I felt like a champion getting simple tasks finished and not fearing a phone call because I am afraid talking to someone will result in no solution.
Hopefully I can find a way to seen as I am, sincere. Ihave talked with so many, I just want to pursue my idea on how to move forward. As an engineer, a solution either works or it doesn't. I think what cerebral provided is the direction. I'm just so aggravated the nature of this drug and advocating for this path forward my present difficulties. I feel like if can be competent at work, I could reduce my anxiety and that the depression I'll subside. I'm only an expert in myself and that's what I see in me.
Treating the anxiety/depression can help. Even if those things are rooted in ADHD, they take on a life of their own before long. Plus just the novelty of the treatment can give a temporary boost.
With one child and another on the way, you need to be open to anything that can help. Yes, keep looking for another doctor. But in the meantime, get what you can out of this one.
Wellbutrin is an antidepressant that helps many people with ADHD. It might help you.
There is a lot that can be done for ADHD apart from stimulants, most of which will still be useful if not necessary to thrive even if/when you’re able to get better treatment.
For me, it helps to work kind of sideways. Whatever your mind/body is resisting, don’t fight yourself, but try from another angle to do something that sets you up well. If you are resisting work, take a walk or a nap or play with your baby or phone a friend. Something that is healthy for you, but vines easier in the moment.
I’ve found that one in a while I can “win” when I fight myself directly - willpower versus resistance - but it comes at a huge cost and makes the most sense for one time really morally important things.
the last paragraph, i swear that I'm able to convince myself to want what i know i need and should do. its specifically selling bs to myself to talk me into what i shouldnt have to talk me into.. i had an employer tell me one time "its hard to get fired from here", lol, i yelleed at him in response "dont let me hear that! there's part of me that accepts that as a challenge you kno"
I feel like, if I can manage my days at work and effectively take on my tasks then my anxiety will decrease amd that the depression will float away. I get upset with work and part of that is my inability to start, finish, and manage the tasks in an efficient way. I'm constantly behind and the fact that I get pulled from a task without completion and put on a new fire, the worse my day gets. I have the time in the day. I have the time to get tasks done, I'm just unable to transition well and often avoid getting started until my anxiety pops and I'm panicked into action.
Yeah doc was actually quite sharp and advanced to think about whether you have depression/anxiety along with ADHD. That's hugely true. Hugely.
And depression can lead to procrastination every bit as much as ADHD. So treating your ADHD won't necessary "solve" your procrastination problems.
Lowering anxiety can help with procrastination. Or just working on procrastination (or anti-procrastination methods) and experimenting.
These conditions all interact ... and can worsen the other. But it's not true that your depression will definitely disappear with ADHD treatment. Nope. It may, but there's a good chance you need to treat the depression or anxiety in addition to the ADHD. BTW: therapy is great for all of this stuff, sometimes in place of anxiety or depression meds, often in combination with meds.
I am defintily happy to explore the depression and anxiety. I'd love to talk about work and my lack of action to advance myself. I get ideas of grad school, then I remember I'm avoiding the fact that I'm not certified/licensed. It's like I get excited amd then reality sets in that these small goals are reality I can't get passed.
I do feel like I should have been fired over a year ago. That I'm barely functional and my work ethic is in the pits. I love getting projects done and finding solutions but I feel like mentorship is in my career is missing. And then I think if I'm such a dumpsterfire, why would anyone want to mentor me. Also, i feel that if I'm not pushing myself forward I won't find others to help guide me professionally. It just sucks.
My issue with my therapist is that I feel like I'm back in Community College. I was dule enrolled in high school and we did so many personaly and career tests that I know I'm where I need to be, I'm just in my own way. Therapy is definitly a help but again, what stresses me out is I miss half the day if I get scheduled Monday through thrusday. My only true availability is Friday afternoon and a frequent amount of visits makes me feel like I'm missing out on my child's early years.
I need to convey this at my next appointment. I just find it hard to corse correct a professional in their area of expertise when it comes to the direction they want to go.
Hi DrewI can strongly relate to your post too. Theres some really good advice in your replies. I think I can add to it too.
Yes, I agree with getting a second opinion from a good doctor. I have had to advocate for myself quite strongly lately and I've had excellent results. But I really pushed because I wasn't getting what I needed. I also agree with being as informed as you can. Knowledge is power that's for sure.
I have spent a lot of my life depressed so am pretty good at getting out of it and I've learnt a lot along the way but everyone is different too, so it's about learning what works for you.
Since being medicated my depression has improved 90% but I still use all of the tools I had before. And if I don't, I get depressed and my organisation is a disaster and I stop functioning.
I'm in the process of getting my life back together, I say that but really it's never been together. I am 51 years old and was diagnosed last year so things got so bad that I stopped working at all and then a physical injury related or caused by my ADHD has laid me really low for the past 2 years.
Before this I was either hyper focused to the point of being obsessive or not at all and really struggled to function. Being on meds is really only half the picture for me. It gives me impulse control which is a game changer, my memory is better sometimes and I definitely have better executive function. But my meds only work when I look after myself and this includes depression.
I used this book for years.
The Depression Cure: The 6-Step Program to Beat Depression without Drugs by Stephen S. Ilardi
It's about life style changes that support ADHD for sure. Referred to me by a great medical doctor, it's an excellent book.
Exercise is key for me but it has to be strenuous to release the endorphins. I used to interval train on a spin bike watching u-tube GCN. Excellent workouts and quick, 20 mins would be enough. youtube.com/watch?v=wBurKQX...
Find what works for you if you haven't already.
The other thing with excessive stress is the over production of cortisol which stops my meds working, it's probably the same for you, I'm not sure about Men but I will have a look around. With woman our hormones really affect our meds and the other stress factors too.
Sleep is very important too and that's pretty hard with young babies. Not getting enough sleep is one of my most demotivating problems. The above book has some good solid solutions for this too.
Decluttering has helped for me in my quest to start working again. If I have a clear well organised work space it's a lot easier to make new habits about sitting down and getting started. I also write lists with A,B,C depending on what the priority is and I cross them off. I get a lot of satisfaction doing that and I think it releases endorphins which I think is important. I did read something about that, will try to find.
All the best. It will get better it's just a hard process that takes time. 🙂
I'll be replying more later but excercise got me out of this before for the most part. I was falling apart after I dropped out of school, 30k/year for an aerospace degree to fail most classes was stressful. I was between universities and degrees and had the support and luxury of just working and community College. I worked out a lot. Got really fit and healthy.
It was great but the challenge now is time. I work 8-6 Monday to Thursday and 8-12 on Fridays. Homelife is more work such as a kitchen remodel that I've brought into action for my mother (2 years delayed due to covid and inflation), and a wife and child. Now my exercise consists of field visits, lots of walking after the 19month old and bike rides pulling him in a buggy. Yard work and landscaping is huge and helpful but I wish I could do more strength training.
I'll check out the video, time being so fragmented I could only dream of a home workout routine at the moment.
I will reply more later too, with those things I was looking up.
Yes, I can totally see the time pressures, have been in similar situations in the past. My oldest daughter is almost 30 and my youngest is turning 21 in July, so I'm in a different situation now, but I can appreciate how hard it is to manage children and everything else while having ADHD.
The beauty of the 20min 30min interval training vids is, if you can do it first thing in the morning it sets you up really well with motivating endorphins for the rest of the day. The crew at Global cycling network are quite funny when you get to know the presenters. I tend to do things on a loop so I must have watched some of the vids many times and I always get a laugh out of it too. I think trying to make the exercise routine as quick and easy as possible is important. I used to roll out of bed first thing in the morning and do the 20min one, I would usually have a better day and that was before I was diagnosed and on meds.
I have heard of people working out in playgrounds like doing chin ups from bars and such.
Like a functional type of exercise. Thinking of ways to incorporate it into what you usually do, like you already do with your walks with your child. My Husband rides his bike to work only twice a week and that 30min x2, up some impressive hills, sets him up really well . He's strong and fit and does chin ups and other things on a bar type thing we have set up in our bathroom, he doesn't spend long. He also walks our dog mostly too, I think we underestimate how much good walking does. But walking doesn't give you that hit of endorphins like interval training does.
I really struggle with making time for exercise too. I'm just off to force myself to do my pilates matt work. I think habit is key. It is for me anyway. When I do something out of habit it's like being on autopilot and becomes easy. I mostly swim now not interval train because of my knee issues and I have a good swimming routine now.
I have all the gear in a carry bucket thing and can just think I need to do my swim now and be off out the door quickly and it feels so familiar now that it's comforting in a way. I listen to music during the car ride and enjoy that. I do the same habit stacking when I get home to prepare my swimming things for my next swim. I try to habit stack in a compartment type way. I find making it enjoyable in some way seems to help me. Like how I used to enjoy the familiar banter of the GCN crew.
I'm trying to put my other routines or things that should be in a routine into a habit too, so working on that. It's a process but I think it's logically the same principle and should be able to be applied across all aspects of my life. It's a work in progress that's for sure.
dude i wouldnt mind talkin with you (phrasing, i'd like to, just dont wana come off to strong lol) I'm nearly 35, everything was managable until lockdown and layoffs. i have custody of my 11 year old and she is surprisingly well adjusted, given who her parents are. that being said, i've never been great at simple adult things, but somehow managed 12 years as quality control manager, inspector, and forman most of the times(yes, conflict of interest) and maintained the companies database created out of necessity in excel and dropbox with relative ease, but i also will have rent's money order filled out in my pocket for up to a week after its due, late charges for no reason. I was 33 when my mental break happened, i put me back together the best i could but i dont dare assume i did it correctly. i've been forced to get to know my self and all the varied emotions one could feel, i've always been the thinker type i thought. As an engineer i'm hoping you know the pain in the ass it is to get a company ISO certified, i only bring it up because i know i put zero effort into grammar in such that you're reading here. I've maintained compliance with oen company, and was qms for another with certification. i have mental tools, but have no idea if they'd work for anyone else, but i get the vibe that entry level/what-your-supposed-to-say can be a put off to you too.
Fun fact.. Jesus was crucified at 33.. he knew a thing or two.
... I should probably take out "fun" but.... im not
I think Icontinue to break down when I get to the point that I can see failure coming but I am unable to effectively redirect myself towards a solution.
I'm not familiar to much with ISO outside of the basic fire standards for residential communities. I do land development and my only work with ISO is ensure potable flow requirements are consistent whenever I have a community that may require these standards to be met.
I had the goal to be a development manager, to be in the field just as much at a desk but I do not have the direct experience. I thought it would be similar to the plumbing and maintenance work I do around the house in that I get fixated and can see the problem/solution first hand.
Once I get licensed, fingers crossed, I'll need to continue with the CE requirements. I've been apart of that stuff already so that's not a concern as sometimes sitting in on a sales pitch qualifies as time.
all iso is, is a quality management system that has reached status of one of the paperwork standards to meet in a way.. like audit requirements, having iso certification automatically can put you on approved venders list internationally and things like that. but it costs a handsome salary to have someone simply manage paperwork so redundant that it actually encourages pencil whipping instead of actually checking boxes as QC/QA. the idea in it makes sense, but its not always sensible to do given what it takes to maintain it. thats the only reason "ISO compliant" is a thing, its just passing an ISO audit to a certain degree that allows whatever documentation provided can be used by the company using it and they're iso certified. kind of like buying into the top players club, its stupid but you need someone that can actually do it. like a challenge of how good someone can follow poor instructions in a daunting way lol
like when corporate positions get nervous and have to implement something to prove their working and keep their job (bitter opinion of 15 timers expected to manage at starbucks, none of which set over 15 minutes, some as low as 2..... how about i just make their coffee instead of setting timers non-stop, it makes them not even alert me, selective hearing takes over) ... while back, still bitter lol.. i may wanna look at that
One thing to remember is that therapists jumped all aboard telemedicine, therapy via video. And frankly, that can work quite quite well. What this means if you have more flexibility to go see a therapist. People will sit in their car in their driveway and connect with their therapist via phone if they can't get privacy in any other way.
might as well like it, its everywhere, and some are playing more seriously than others, and sometimes, I'm that11 year old that just discovered what 52 pick up is. i cant help but to be exZaktly me, and can't only because idk if i wana
Back to your original question:You need the meds. For ADHD. If necessary for mood disorder later. But yes, definitely for ADHD. ASAP. And whichever way you get there don't matter.
Living in UK so don't know what you have to do to get there but your provider's reason given for not continuing your ADHD meds makes no sense. Sounds like they don't know their stuff. So either pressure them into it to you or to refer you to a psychiatrist or change provider.
Meds need to be your goal. Nice to chat and do lots of other stuff as suggested in the various comments but that will make you work even less. And with 2 kids you will need to keep a job going so to enjoy it - which you probably will on effective meds - would be great. BTW doctor speaking and love my job on Elvanse/Vyvanse 70mg daily.
Well on Friday i did speak with someone new and we will be continuing where I was left-off. It's a relief for sure and I can definitely see an improvement at work and home even with a small dose 10mg and soon to be 15mg daily. Due to covid, the fact that telemedicine has been available is great. Missing work is just another stressor, I can sit my desk and video conference and avoid 1-2 hours of travel during the work day.
The new doctor is thinking I may benefit from going back onto Lexapro which I've done before as anxiety I guess is my thing. I'm almost certain the anxiety I get is my coming from my perception of failure and my inability to course correct. Happy to explore that though as that may be a only a part of it. Work has definitely been hard to enjoy but I want to enjoy it. I miss that attitude.
Hi there, 38 and diagnosed this year. One of the resources shared with me was ADDitude Magazine (online email subscription) and their affiliated podcast. The magazine is structured specifically for people with ADHD with formatting and such so you don’t get bogged down as easily in the content. I’ve had a lot of “A-Ha” moments and feel the articles, webinars and other resources they offer are informative/helpful.
Dear Dreww88,I feel for you and I can relate to you coming from the country of engineering and having a younger brother with more pronounced ADHD than I, who also loves the hands-on engineer work more than doing his reports or pure office based work. He travels all over the world, installing, then teaching staff how to maintain, power station gas turbines.
He would simply die from boredom, anxiety, clashes with authorities and colleagues, and eventually from depression and suicide if he was forced to work in an office all day. He is at his happiest and best self when he crawles in and out of "his" turbines and has with the energy of loving the mechanics role TWICE managed to squeeze a lumbar disc out and onto his nerve roots to the extent that he was sobbing in a heap/rod on the floor and hence needed urgent surgery. TWICE.I also agree that with ADHD and Generalised Anxiety Disorder often/?usually the ADHD came first, causing anxiety levels to rise then become entrenched.
Back to you and me, I used to be on Citalopram 20, later 40mg daily. In the beginning episodically, then, many years ago already permanently with Citalopram 40 and 20mg being the equivalent of Escitalopram (Lexapro) 20 and 10mg respectively.
Then one day, not so long ago, I felt my motivation slump when a big project came along, so big that the sheer thought of starting on it made it impossible to actually get going and far too big to be able to compensate for the procrastination with it (a flat I had bought needed furniture, unpacking lots of stuff in boxes and decorating all by myself, and my ADHD mind did not help with organising to organise friends, penniless students or other willing people to ask for assistance) and after suffering endless guilt trips over this inertia, shame, self-doubt and fruitless search for solutions I eventually thought maybe I just needed to change my antidepressant/antianxiety pill from the SSRI Citalopram to a more motivation improving SNRI eg Venlafaxine (Effexor), so, for the first time in my life, I consulted with a psychiatrist with that mission - online, and for me it doesn't make a difference to face to face.)
I had no other thoughts on my mind, in fact I was pretty convinced that this meds change was what I needed, having read up and knowing how to read clinical evidence. Ok, perhaps therapy, but I know I have good resources, family and friends and a mindset inclined to enjoy my time on this Earth (atheist).
It was he, the psychiatrist, who diagnosed me with ADHD - mixed type in November 2021.
I am now established on effective doses of Venlafaxine and Lisdexamfetamine but in retrospect I think I would be equally well on the combination of Lisdexamfetamine(Vyvanse) and Citalopram, as I also see the cause for the anxiety inducing procrastination in the original ADHD starting to cause me problems in early childhood and NOT the (secondary) anxiety disorder being the primary affliction.
Looking back to life in primary school it was the ADHD causing this huge, frightening, confusing, debilitating and depressing, paralysing anxiety, but I could obviously not have had any concept of either, aged 6 to 10 in 1972 to 1976.
Things got better at first in secondary school with an adorable, mild-mannered, gentle and encouraging teacher as nearly my first ever other adult that mattered after my parents had managed to fall out with almost all uncles and aunts, but in the background existing difficulties continued and new ones arose. Etc etc. This is turning into the ever lengthening typically rambling narrative that my meds haven't managed to rid me of but that is probably because it's therapeutic. Forgive me.
So, in summary, I believe the combination Adderal/Lexapro is really good and could be YOUR life changer.
All else may just follow naturally.
So far my prediction. With that pinch of muscat, because who can predict the future? But I do think things are looking up for you, my friend.
You've made it so far. You've managed to become an engineer. You've not ended up in prison - at least, it seems, not permanently - and deep down, just waiting to come to the surface of your poor, starving frontal lobe you know what does you good, what you need in life to enjoy things and what makes life worth living. That is what is abundantly clear from your posts.
I would echo the possibility of "Adderall/Lexapro", but for me, I would edit to be Adderall/SNRI combo of some sort.
[obligatory Disclaimer], We're obviously not Dr's here and everyone's different. however, norepinephrine and stimulants are, generally speaking, fairly effective with ADHD. I've seen some well known ADHD spokes people (who are ADHD themselves) allude to Seratonine being counter productive to ADHD. Could be dependent on scenario, of course, and co-mobrid issues may dictate.
personally, SNRI's (like buproprion and duloxitine) have been most effective regarding the depression/anxiety component. Adderall has actually been the most effective thing for me with regard to mood and "getting up and going", but still struggling with "going" in the right direction. I think I may need a different stimulant, possibly, but still working on that theory with my physicians.
For illustration sake (maybe for others, too):
--"Successful adult" here with good paying job in tech industry, married with kids, was generally good at everything I tried most my life, but never felt like I 'knew' what I wanted because of natural ability through childhood into college (130+ IQ..so the tests say...only mentioning to illustrate how ADHD can cripple the mind) I struggle to articulate when speaking, feel like I'm in a fog when absorbing info, read slow, suck at standardized tests despite all A's in high school, full academic ride to college, changed majors three times (still not sure I know what I "want to do with my life", withdrew from college semesters 3 or 4 times, took 8yrs to squeak out a 2yr degree, had to live back at home for a couple years at one point..significant depression for a couple years, suffered from depression/anhedonia my whole life which I now attribute as mostly a byproduct of un-diagnosed adhd until adulthood (40-50yrs old)
--Finally realized most of my job changing happened when I hit a stale point with the job, and productivity/motivation kicked in harder. I think new jobs mitigated adhd to some degree until the novelty wore off, or the tasks were no longer "different enough" for me.
--Currently suffering with my latest of job of multiple years, probably should already have been fired, but fortunate with good humans for my managers so far and am still battling to make it out of my hole.
I haven't met with the "resistance" you have, I suppose, but have struggled with the notorious issues of ADHD being over-looked and not considered...by myself, even, my whole life...until recently. It's the resistance of societies view towards adhd, and the medical profession's slow adaption to curve to its complex symptoms beyond just a 'hyper kid'. It's especially misunderstood in adults, and the standardized tests and questionaires lag behind the time, still. Although the last 10yrs are seeing significant strides, it's the snail pace adaption of the medical professions official stance and treatment of it, that causes "resistance" for all of us, even when officially diagnosed.
I'm still working towards an official diagnosis, but have finally put the pieces together enough to at least give myself direction. I encourage you to keep trying...you're certainly not alone. If anything, I think adult adhd is the vast majority of unknown cases out there, or not fully understood, or maybe treated, as in your case, possibly.
I recommend ADDitudeMAG as a good site for insightful articles. Over the past year or two, this sight has had the most impact on me for knowledge and coming to understand ADHD inattentive type.
Your not wrong for pursuing depression/anxiety in tandem. It's present in most of us. It can be chicken and egg, sometimes, but I think most of us who of stumbled on to the realization of our condition (officially or personally), have a gut feeling on the source...or at least the most "to blame" of the sources, even if present together.
I think the mindset and attitude of the physician if more important than their pedigree..even for those who focus on ADHD admit there's much to learn. If you can find, or have found, someone to approach your battle the same way as you, then that's gold. (my Adderall Rx came from a non psychiatrist with a good attitude and respect for me as an adult and patient).
Hope that helps, or at least helps someone else. I'm just starting my own journey after being un-diagnosed most of my life. Being diagnosed, but not receiving the correct help or approach, is just as valid or in the same playing field of 'need', in my opinion.
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