Ideas for upcoming IEP meeting (specifically refusing to do non preferred homework at school)

[SurvivorFan]

Hello,

Looking for some ideas to bring to the table for our up coming IEP meeting. Specifically, what have you found helpful if your child was refusing to follow along with what the class is doing for a lot of the day. My son will be present at this meeting so he understands we are all on the same page. I want to keep it very black and white for him what the rules are at school.

For some backround: My son is in 2nd grade, medicated, does not have any learning disabilities, is quite smart, says that he is not bored with the work, gets offered lots of movement breaks or options to work in a smaller flex space if he chooses. He has a para. He will become annoyed if he does not want to follow with what the class is doing, argue with his para or teacher a bit about doing the task and then will flee the room sometimes, run in the hall, etc. It is not always a specific time of day/subject.

I know he does not like writing. At all. Being told he has to write more than a sentence or two makes him automatically say I don't want to do that.

So, if you have any helpful tips or ideas that worked for your child at school please share! I don't put up with the refusal at home. Either he chooses to do his chores, homework, and be respectful to the family at home or he doesn't, which means HE is choosing to not have screen time. I feel like he has figured out that if he acts out enough they will remove him from the class for fear of a blow up. We have tried the if you refuse to do work at school then you don't earn your I pad at home but for some reason doesn't translate the same for him and he just accepts that the I pad is gone that day (but still does all that's asked of him at home) As of now, meds seem to be working well. Higher stimulant has not been helpful.

[Aspen797]

Has he been evaluated by OT for dysgraphia or fine motor difficulties? Does he have a hard time with open ended writing prompts? Can these be made more concrete? Can he dictate to the para pro and she record it?

He may be reinforced by being removed, but something is initially prompting him to feel discomfort with what is being asked. The IEP team needs to drill down and determine what is causing the discomfort and how to accommodate or teach a skill to remedy it. If the initial discomfort is addressed, the need to escape should lessen and he should still be required to complete the work but with reasonable accommodations.

[SurvivorFan in reply to Aspen797]

He has been to OT (private) for over a year but they were more focused on body awareness/movement. He met all his goals so we discontinued. He does have trouble with open ended writing prompts for sure but I have seen him get better with this lately. It seems the act of writing is what sets him off to me because he thinks "ugh this is going to take so much time." He does not have difficulty with actual writing or fine motor.

I worry that if I allow the para to write down his ideas that will hurt him in the long run? Won't this be required of him more and more as he gets into higher grades? I don't know to make him push through and do it or maybe come up with an agreement that he writes half/she writes half?

[Aspen797 in reply to SurvivorFan]

I think it’s great that you have identified activities that set him off and actions that others take that reinforce his behavior. You know that writing is a stressor, but it’s not fine motor related, and that he can argue about other class activities. Writing can be challenging for a lot of reasons. Sometimes the open ended nature can be overwhelming. It’s hard to know how to begin. Sometimes you have so many thoughts it can be hard to see an ending. Talking out your ideas to another person and having them record them or use the ideas to fill in a graphic organizer or outline might help. See readingrockets.org/topics/w.... Using timers so he can see the end in sight to his writing task may also help. Good teachers utilize dictation to offload stress and enable a student to feel successful/show what they know, but scaffold the support so it’s not provided any longer than needed. They can also modify writing prompts to make them more concrete, without making the task ‘easier.’ See thewatsoninstitute.org/wats...

Another possibility if organizing thoughts isn’t an issue is a weakness in perspective taking/pragmatic language. Some kids need to know why they are doing an activity and see the logic in doing so in order to do it. Barring that, they may need a ‘first this, then that’ approach where, even if they don’t agree with the logic of doing the activity, they know they have to complete it before earning another preferred activity. So your idea of providing reinforcers for activity completion would work here.

It sounds like you and your child’s team are knowledgeable and supportive and are committed to working together to figure out a good combination of accommodating and skill building that will help keep him trying hard and feeling successful. He’s a lucky boy to have such a team behind him.

[SurvivorFan in reply to Aspen797]

Thank you for all the info and resources!We discussed tonight if he might be motivated to push through/be flexible to do some more classwork without arguing if we cut the day up into 2 portions/rewards.

As of now, I believe he can earn tokens through the week then cash them in for a prize on Friday. We will work out details in the meeting but essentially if he can be less argumentative about doing the work and completing the work in the morning he will receive a small reward, then same for the afternoon. He seemed pretty excited about this idea and thought of some small rewards he would be happy with.

Maybe having a more immediate reward system will help. We shall see..

[Mamamichl in reply to SurvivorFan]

Honestly, my kids teacher made the offer to write every other sentence offer to the whole class. Told the kids that they could get help but needed to ask.

[Mamamichl in reply to Aspen797]

I had high school students that had me write what he dictated. There are also speech to text programs kids can use too.

[ADHD_DAD in reply to Aspen797]

Agree with this advice about dysgraphia. Very common with ADHD. For us diagnosis required independent evaluation by a neuropsychologist. Since this is not a medical doctor, my insurance would not pay, but it was only about $1200. This eval and the increased requested accommodations helped a lot. Good luck.

[SurvivorFan in reply to ADHD_DAD]

We have a neuropsych evaluation coming up in the beginning of the New Year so I am curious as to what, if anything that will reveal. I admit, I have been fearful to do one for a long time because I don't want more labels put on my son. I am coming to realize that this could help put some pieces of the puzzle together for us.

[ADHD_DAD in reply to SurvivorFan]

My son is now 18. I have certainly heard plenty of labels put on OTHER PEOPLE'S kids, from exceptional, stellar athlete, popular, "social butterfly," etc. People seem just fine with labels that do nothing for my son. I have no problem with labels that get him the help he needs. Plus, nobody really cares, except people have create some made up competition that I want no part of (and they will manipulate the rules so they "win" anyway). All silliness.

[SurvivorFan in reply to ADHD_DAD]

Yeah I get that. I could care less about competing with anyone else's child. My worry comes more from a place of wanting him to have the correct diagnosis/not miss diagnosed. But, after having some good conversations with his doctor I understand that just because we have this done does not mean we have to agree with everything if we feel strongly otherwise. To be clear, I do feel we are missing something so I know it needs to be done and anything that can benefit my son I will do.

[Aspen797 in reply to SurvivorFan]

This is great! The more info you get, the more you can get skill teaching and meaningful accommodations on IEP and the more you can learn about how your kiddo is perceiving the world to better advocate for him. It’s frightening but ultimately this is where things shift from child focused blame (they don’t want to behave—let’s reward; they are seeking attention-let’s punish) to provider focused responsibility (what skills does he not have that are causing the behavior that I need to teach? How can we accommodate so he doesn’t feel hopeless and bad?) It’s scary but empowering.

[SurvivorFan in reply to Aspen797]

Yes, this is exactly what I think all of this school year has led me to come to terms with Nicely said!

[STEM_Dad]

I recall watching a video in which Dr. Russell Barkley says that the consequences cannot be delayed, because that just doesn't work for the ADHD mind. Based on that, your son refusing to do work at school and taking off running, then losing iPad time at home later that day, would not be an effective consequence for him.• To add Dr. Edward Hallowell's observation, for a person with ADHD, there is only "now" and "not now". (As someone with ADHD, I can tell you that this is a very accurate statement. Calling it "time blindness" doesn't get the understanding across.) So, for a person with ADHD, especially for a child like your son, consequences (reward or punishment) must be as immediate as possible to his actions. (e.g. If he does a writing assignment, he should be recognized. If he does it well & quickly, he should get some sort of small, appropriate reward, like maybe a wiggle break.)

Whatever happens at school, the consequence also has to occur at school, as immediately as possible. For instance, an example that I can recall from when I was in First Grade, if a student was acting out or taking too long to complete an assignment before recess, they would lose the privilege of going out to play at recess* (not a delayed consequence, like sending unfinished work home as homework, or detention at the end of the day).

Whatever consequences or accommodations that get implemented at school need to be enacted as close in time as possible to address your son's needs &/or behaviors.

______

*(I started First Grade in 1981 already reading and writing better than most of my peers, but would get distracted looking out the window, usually after finishing an assignment quickly, but then would miss the transition to the next lesson. My teacher told my mom that she regularly caught me "daydreaming" instead of paying attention to lessons. So, I did have to stay in class through recess a few times to finish my work. But, I'm grateful now, because I think my First Grade teacher's observation of my distractibility helped me get diagnosed with Inattentive ADHD at 45 years old.)

[STEM_Dad in reply to STEM_Dad]

SurvivorFan , if your son struggles with writing, are there other fine-motor coordination activities that he enjoys?

My youngest kids are now in 3rd and 5th grades. They were homeschooled prior to the current school year, but are now in public school. (Both seem to me to have mild ADHD, but they are undiagnosed.)

• Prior to this school year, my son (the 5th grader) hated writing and would resist doing any writing work as much as possible. Now, he doesn't complain anymore, and his teacher sends home word about how well he's doing...both with his behavior and his work. I don't know what worked to turn him around, but I know that he responds well to structure and praise. --- This might not help much with your son, based on what you've described. But many children do respond very well to praise.

• Prior to this school year, my daughter (the 3rd grader) had really bad handwriting... about what I would expect of a student in 1st grade, not a 3rd grader. Just 3 months into the school year, her handwriting has improved tremendously (and so has her artistic ability...she loves to draw). She has even started writing cursive and it looks as good as my writing when I was in 4th or 5th grade. I don't know if she simply improved on her own, or if her teacher has been doing anything to help her to improve, but I'm blown away by the change. I do know from my daughter that she gets to do activity pages (mazes, puzzles, etc) in class, and maybe that helps. She is also super excited to get to go to art class, and I think that the art instruction has helped her to develop her fine motor coordination. --- I think that by doing fine motor coordination activities that she enjoys, my daughter's writing has improved, and she seems to love writing now, when she was indifferent before. (I missed the parent-teacher conference, so I didn't get the chance to ask her teacher.) So, I wonder if your son would like writing if he got to do things that made writing enjoyable for him, like activity worksheets ...so maybe an accomodation could be doing an alternate assignment, when possible, which is designed more like a fun activity.

[SurvivorFan in reply to STEM_Dad]

Thank you for your response. Yes, your right the delayed consequence at school is a problem and I know this/practice this at home. I needed to hear that again though so thank you for that. I had on my list- any work not completed needs to be sent home and he needs to complete it before earning his screen time. But, as you stated...to long of a time period for him to feel what that actually means. Also, then all I am doing is putting more on my plate and potentially causing problems in our good relationship because we are arguing over even more homework to do!I wouldn't have recess be taken away as a consequence because I believe that is vital for him but we need to do some brain storming for some small rewards he can earn for completing a task. He is motivated by praise. He wants to do well and generally likes his teachers and classmates so I think that is the way to go.

Thank you for your ideas

[STEM_Dad in reply to SurvivorFan]

You're correct that physical activity is highly important for children with ADHD.

(My recess example was how my 1st grade teacher ensured timely consequences. I think that I only had to stay on for recess a couple of times. But I have Inattentive ADHD, without Hyperactivity.)

A reward system might be a great option. It depends on what type of rewards work for you son.

[Mamamichl in reply to STEM_Dad]

Please do me and the teacher a favor. Praise the teacher for the awesome work they are doing and ask. My daughters writing is off too but teachers need to know they are awesome!

[SurvivorFan in reply to Mamamichl]

I for sure tell them often how much I appreciate them, their communication, and how much empathy and caring they have for my son on the hard days.

[Mamamichl in reply to SurvivorFan]

Some says it is a lot, but I keep in mind that I’m doing a lot of good for kids like yours. We are definitely a team in this.

[Onthemove1971 in reply to Mamamichl]

These types of positive comments could keep a hard working teach in the classroom..Praise is our paycheck!!

[Mamamichl in reply to Onthemove1971]

You work in education too? Your right that we really need the praise sometimes.

[Mamamichl in reply to STEM_Dad]

In the last 20 years of education, teachers learned to rarely take away recess. Some do it because they would lose their own down time (we use to make copies and do other maintenance work), but some also know that the students that stay in are the ones that need the movement break the most.

[Onthemove1971]

Wow this group is amazing. I agree, really try and get him to admit/discuss what his trigger are so that it can be changed and then find out if it is the mechanics of handwriting? This can be qorkwd on in the classroom/consult with OT. If it is the open ended part there are ways to help with this also. Also what kind of reward could work in the classroom/school that is quick and connected to the activity. It sounds like you really have everything dialed in and are working. You guys will figure this out before he gets into higher grade where writing is going to be linked to success.

It also sounds like the IEP team needs a big kudos for having it all together that is rare theses days.

[SurvivorFan in reply to Onthemove1971]

Agree! This group can be pretty amazing!

His IEP team is amazing and supportive right from the principal all the way down. They see that when he is regulated and trying how sweet and funny he is so they want to help bring that guy out more just like we do

I think it will be extremely helpful for us all to sit as one unit and help my son nail down what exactly it is that is triggering for him as well as for him to be a part of what these small immediate rewards could be to help motivate him.

I hope everyday that all the work we have done since being diagnosed at 5 yrs old will benefit him when his brain starts maturing more and more. I already can see how the parent training (shout out adhd dude) has helped us much at home. We just gotta figure out how to make school more tolerable.

[Mamamichl]

I work in education. Special education to be more precise. My kids are on an iep and 504. Although my kids didn’t have this type of issue, my students in my last position did. One idea is to say student needs to do a certain percent of the work the rest of the class is doing and then raise it as the years go by. Another option is to have a reward (maybe extra recess at the end of the day) if he stays in class all day or gets that amount of work done. Education can help him find reinforcements. Some students like to do the trash for the school (see peers), visit certain locations or see certain people. I have a student now in elementary school that gets car stickers for being in class and participating. He also gets a hot wheels car to take home after getting 5 stickers. He could also be the one to fill out how he thinks he did that day for school to home communication (if that won’t trigger him). Hope these ideas help!

[MNmom99]

hi there thanks for your post in reading it. It sounds a lot like my son who also happens to be in the second grade we implemented a plan for his class as well. He is very bored. They changed part of the curriculum for reading, and it ends up being an excruciating two hours, which is where he ends up interrupting the teacher being disruptive and honestly just can’t focus in. We have had to implement multiple breaks and change up his medication a bit which has seem to help. Our child never did well with reward system or if you don’t act this way you can’t do this, I think because their executive function is delayed a couple years that they just can’t grasp that type of motivation. I did see your post that your child was on medication, but was wondering if you have tried a non-stimulant at all? A while back, we did a gene site DNA test and involved a psychiatrist to help get him medication that according to his dna would work best for him. Prior to that he was being medicated by his pediatrician which was ok but the psychiatrist seems to have much more knowledge and hands on with these types of meds,The change seemed to help with defiance and aggression ( I think some of the previous meds were making that worse, coming down from them) We may have the correct combination now it stays in his system and keeps him more balanced, but still having a struggle in the class. Also curious how is his teacher? I have realized with his teacher this year that she is having a hard time understanding a lot of his difficulties, which makes it really frustrating for us as we have seen improvement yet she somehow seems to expect the same behavior out of our child as the rest of the class which clearly won’t happen each kid is different. I feel your pain and frustration and hope you find something that works for your family sending hugs you you and your little one. ❤️❤️

[SurvivorFan in reply to MNmom99]

Hi, thanks for your reply!

Yes he takes a stimulant, non stimulant, and an antidepressant. Right now we feel like his medication is working pretty well. Regulated, happy, and does what's asked of him outside of school(most of the time.) We have tried switching things around med wise to improve his behavior for school hrs but I dont think this is the reason anymore. We also switched over to a pediatric psychiatrist a while back since he is definitely a tricky one to figure out med wise. Very sensitive to meds/side effects and also metabolizes the stimulant really fast.

We had a meeting this week with his team and went over all strategies that have been tried to help him succeed and there have been many. It was pretty emotional. Even the principal was teary eyed as he has been a big supporter of our family. Everyone agreed that he is such a sweet, funny and kind kid who truly is trying his best but that enviroment is likely playing a big factor. He tries and wants to go back to class but 5 minutes in can't tolerate it. They are seeing this year that he is breaking down in true sadness because no matter how much he wants to do well he just can't meet classroom expectations right now and the last thing they/us want is for him to start feeling bad about himself.

We have agreed that for now a better enviroment would be a smaller classroom where he can learn in a way that's best for him. Thankfully there is a school very close by that works with his grade school. It seems pretty wonderful and once the kids gain the skills they need, they can implement back into the elementary school. Its a tough decision but I can really see how he will enjoy it. I could see the relief on his face when we told him if he needed to stand and pace to learn and write he could do that or lay on the carpet with a pillow that works too. The classroom is 6 students with a teacher, para, and OT professional.