A question going round in my mind after reading so many stories regarding the sh*teness of GPs in an culture of 'where's there is blame' etc. Has anyone done this, is it possible? or are these GPs relying on the fact we are all so clapped out and depressed we can't conjure the physical energy to sue them??
suing these useless gps: A question going round... - Thyroid UK
suing these useless gps
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mitchell66
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29 Replies
•
helvellaAdministrator
Have you got a huge bank balance? If not, find someone to fund you, then think about suing.
Not saying it is impossible, but extraordinarily difficult in a controversial area.
Far more likely you would get somewhere without bankrupting yourself with a locla PCT complaint, a GMC (or whatever) complaint.
Rod
I am just so angry Rod, I have lost 12 plus years of my life, i nearly died when I was pregnant because the GPs wouldn't believe how ill I felt. 6 years on they are telling me I'm fine even though many on here have said my bloods are not normal. I felt like punching my doctor in the face last time she talked over me and was actually quite arsey with me for trying to tell her what I'd been told on here. My eyebrows are all but gone, as is all my body hair (I literally look like i've had electrolysis), I am producing very little urine, I am a big fat bloated uncomfortable balloon, I am mostly in bed, my two little boys are missing out on having a normal life. My husband has taken out a loan and I am in the process of convincing my doctor to refer me to Doctor S. I am really scared of how much pain I'm in 
hi mitchell66, i have only just joined this group a couple of days ago, and in a strange way it has gave me great comfort to know im not alone in what im going through. i cant help with your suing question, but i can say i know what your going through. it has become clear to me that all us thyroid sufferers are brushed aside and not taken seriously. i too lost my eyebrows a few years ago (got accused of doing it myself for attention...ha ) it was crushing, now im a major hairy mary, which again is so upsetting i feel like a freak! im so exhausted all the time that my 66 yr old mother has to help me look after my 2yr old daughter, i feel like such a bad mother and so guitly. im 34 yrs old have no friends as i have lost contact with them all due to the fact i feel ill constantly, and have cut myself off from everyone. all the things i have/im feeling has been put down to depression, or all in my head, which makes me soooooo p*ss*d off, cos i know thats not the reason. so anyway i just wanted to say i know how you feel. suzie xx
I wish someone would do it! I'm so angry at Edysia's surgery, they are so reluctant to do anything and she is made to feel like she's putting them out! Then they try to tell her it's all in her mind it makes my blood boil! All to cover their inadequacy and lack of knowledge. I honestly know what you mean when you say you feel you want to physically attack them,I'm surprised it hasn't happened before now somewhere. We're there tomorrow again to literally fight for essential blood tests, (if the doctor is there, It must be nice to work a 3 day week!) it takes so much out of her to go through the stress of visiting someone who is meant to help her. I honestly think they are hampering any kind of recovery. If I'm totally honest we haven't had much joy from the private sector either, I don't know if it's the same in other countries but it's really grim here.
Rant over I'm sorry! Besides I'm preaching to the choir!
are you in the UK Tony?
I've felt that way myself, but have to keep reminding myself that all it would achieve, even if successful, would be to further deplete the financial resources available to the NHS...and it is OUR money!
mitchell66• in reply to
I think the same Sue, when I nearly died there was a big cover up and I never got an apology and I never said I told you so. I didn't have to energy to complain and I was glad my baby and I survived.
But for 6 years I have carried round this anger about the way I was treated and it's happening again now, they won't listen!
What does it take to change the way GPs listen to you?
Doctors will always cover each others backs and they can choose which guidelines to follow. They back the RCP, BTA + BTF guidelines because if they dont they will be challenged by the GMC and suffer Fitness to Practice hearings or even losing their livliehood. They have a protection for every option which is why we have such a problem fighting them.
Hi Glynisrose
Dr Myhill's site has some really interesting information on it about the GMC's current attitude to treating patients in line with "our" way.
While they were preparing their case against Dr Myhill, Dr Skinner's FTP case was resolved and won. Following this the GMC asked a leading Counsel Tom Kark QC to review Sr Myhill's case. He concluded that "it would be very difficult to establish that no reasonable body of medical opinion would behave in the way that Dr Myhill did in relation to the suggestion of using thyroxine.
In other words, because there is now a body of reasonable medical opinion on the use of thyroxine for patients in the reference range, it would be very hard to build a case for a doctor who prescribes thyroxine to a patient with blood results in the reference range.
This is due to the hard work of Dr Skinner in his FTP hearing.
So a doctor should be free to prescribe thyroxine to patients with blood results in the reference range and signs and symptoms of thyroid disease with the GMC building a case.
However, if problems result due to prescribing, such as iatrogenic thyrotoxicosis (doctor induced thyoxine poisoning), that may result in a GMC case.
The way to stop doctors referring other doctors who prescribe thyroxine to the GMC is to publicise the GMC review and advise GPs that they can prescribe thyroxine to patients with blood results in the reference range and symptoms.
If you feel you may have a clinical negligence claim please contact a solicitor that specialises in this field. Despite popular belief you can only get compensation if the doctor has acted in such a sub standard way as to be negligent and this sub standard care has caused you harm. It is not as easy as sometimes we are led to believe! Those that get compensation truly deserve it. Unfortunately the only two options of formally challenging a doctors care and treatment is by either the complaints process and/or a clinical negligence claim. As far as funding investigation into a claim you may be able to obtain funding via one of your insurance policies if you have legal expenses insurance or a number of solicitors will offer a no win no fee agreement in certain circumstances. Also until April 1 for those who are financially eligible may be able to get legal aid. Hope this helps
Do you have class-action suits in the UK? You could check with a lawyer and find out how many complainants have to be involved and what kind of evidence is needed. Actually, if you find certain medical evidence would be necessary, people could start collecting and compiling it. So far, all the petitions don't seem to be effective as yet. Petitions are requests but lawsuits are demands.
• in reply toHeloise
Class action, that's interesting, yes we do and I posted on either this forum or another Thyroid forum several months ago that very question on this subject to all those "really upset", "really angry" people who write often about the disinterest, ignorance and just plain negligence of their GP's saying that something should be done. I suggested "how about a class action, there is enough of us"?, Response nil, interest nil ! I don't know what else to say! How about I ask again. Who would like to join together to go down the legal route toward challenging either a GP or GP's or their professional body or other professional bodies for failing in their duty of care toward several thousand people?
Heloise• in reply to
Maybe you need to get some information to work with regarding the action. It could be that money as in "damages" would not amount to enough to make it worth the firm's investment. The two I've participated in, one with regard to a car part defect, and one, years ago involving Synthroid did not profit me in any way but I think Synthroid did pay damages. I wonder if there is a record of that.
Heloise• in reply to
Do you think Forest (the company that produces Armour) would support an action since it might benefit them?
Probably going after individual GP's would be too trivial.
It is understandable that asking very sick individuals to stress themselves even more may be asking too much but if they only needed to provide permission to use the lab tests and treatment, I cannot believe they wouldn't cooperate. The right people don't seem to be realizing the magnitude of this situation although some agencies require a huge amount of casualties before
they will act; especially when money is involved. But it does seem, that even this malpractice may be costing the NHS more than good practice.
rosetrees• in reply to
Phoebs - this is something I have been thinking about myself for the last few months. I have said to several people that if I ever actually get well enough there will be such an explosion that it will be heard worldwide.
I wonder if there is anyone here who is a solicitor who has first hand experience of this poor treatment?
My aim is not about compensation - how do you compensate for a totally lost life? I've never been well enough to get married, have children or even work more than part time. My aim is to get proper treatment for others in the future. Heck we aren't even talking expensive treatment, just treatment that takes time and input to adjust correctly. The two things that most GPs are not prepared to give.
blackqueen65• in reply to
My sister and myself would be very interested in pursuing this, not interested in getting money just a change in the way we are treated. I wonder if one of the big medical negligence law firms (I have two in mind) would be interested in a case against the bigwigs who make the guidance the GP's are working to? I know they work on a no win no fee basis so would only take on a case if they thought it would likely win. I'm sure if we all got information together and presented a few of the worst cases ( and I've read some really disgraceful medical failures on here and on TPA UK) they might be persuaded to look over it and see if it's worth taking on.
I know how you feel - but to be honest I think your energy is best channelled into getting really well and getting on and enjoying your life.
I have been/still am really angry about the treatment my family has had from the NHS, at one stage my GP blamed me for my daughters difficulties (she has since been diagnosed with autism) and my husbands ME! (husband had hypo and very unwell - now on T3 only after a fight to get him seen by an endo and has recovered a lot of his health). if it wasnt so serious it would be laughable but boy was I angry!!! I just carried on providing the evidence to shoot down his opinion of me and prove him wrong. Which I did on both counts
The latest episode is with my daughter who has suffered all symptoms of hypo for at least a year, this week her blood test showed her TSH has now risen to 9.34 so he wants to see her! (I told him I thought she was hypo and had all the symptoms, I believe he just thought it was me trying to be difficult again or it was her autism causing all the problems!).
I could write a book about our experiences with the NHS and CAMHS and the failure of the education system for our daughter ( I have a good case to sue the educational authorities for negligencewhose professional carried out assessments and should have spotted her so obvious autistic traits but refused to take any notice of me) but how much influence can one person really have ? That is why Thyroid UK and others groups are so important.
eshopper, sorry to 'butt in', but I have read about your daughter...sorry 
has anyone suggested or have you thought yourself that she is very likely B12 deficient? it is a common feature in autism.
Even if she has B12 in normal range (even in top range of normal) she could still be b12 deficient at 'tissue level'. Just though I'd give you a 'pointer' so that you can look into it xx
thanks for suggesting this - she should have been checked for B12 when she had her blood tests ( I requested this) and I will find out her results on friday when I take her to see the doctor.
sorry going off on a Tanjant, in terms of education me too, I wasnt well enought to keep battling the LEA for my son, it stinks absolutely, i had enough evidence to sink them to sue for discimination, but thank god he has made remarkable improvements and its due to the fact, I had to be his gp, counsillor, teacher, physcologist. now I have to mend myself.
xxxxxx
I have a friend who sued a surgeon for negligence, which involved several years of follow-up surgeries to correct the initial mistake, each of which caused more problems and all due to negligence. She used her insurance to sue, but it was extremely stressful because she had to write a detailed report - almost day by day - of several years of hospitalisations, then have it checked by an expert, then her solicitor had to keep following up everything with the surgeon's solicitor because they tried to ignore the case. The whole process took well over two years, no-one appeared to have kept her notes and certainly didn't produce any, so there was nothing to refer to. Once it was obvious my friend was going to win (I believe through lack of proof on the other side and the obvious arrogance and wriggling of the surgeon), she was offered compensation, which didn't cover her loss of earnings for those years (she also lost her job), to stop it going any further but without guilt being admitted. That also stopped it going to the GMC. The surgeon was defended by his insurance and they paid the compensation but my friend was little better off, stressed by it and the surgeon still continues his work so she didn't even make a difference for anyone else.
To sue and really make an impact you need first to make sure you have a copy of all your notes and, if possible, a recording of at least some consultations, a really good doctor on your side and a very good solicitor who specialises in medical negligence claims. Even then one person would probably eventually be bought off and nothing would change.
I think the only way would be a class action as Heloise mentioned, but that would also take years in this country and may even then not result in any change of treatment. I don't know at what point anyone would be entitled to invoke human rights laws but that might be more successful. But Rod has a blog today showing that it isn't only here that treatment is bad. All the NHS has to claim is that they treat properly and we're all suffering from other things and are deluded. They may not even have to prove it, I'm not sure. Anyway, having seen it from the side of someone who has sued, I doubt it's worth it in the end, unless a really huge numbers patients sued and it was reported everywhere.
Sadly, and without your close contact with an unfortunate person in that position, I rather agree with you.
The law is often a poor tool to achieve any sort of real, long-lasting improvement.
Perhaps it would actually be better to target, for example, the existing pseudo-guidelines? For example, at least one of them has no statement in which interests of the authors are declared, another has a revision date that is long passed, and a technical error. I suspect that all existing guidelines could be rendered unusable overnight by appropriate action.
But even then, we need to ask ourselves, will this actually encourage the creation of new and significantly better guidelines? Or result in every doctor doing whatever they wish untrammelled by advice from more experienced and ;earned colleagues?
Rod
In the case of my friend, she wasn't naturally a litigious person, but the first negligent surgery would have caused her death if a nurse hadn't realised quickly what was wrong after the surgeon left the hospital saying she was just bloated. As things progressed a group of us suggested she must do something to stop this happening to anyone else. As it happened the surgeon didn't follow correct guidelines, but no-one was really interested. Surprisingly the GMC aren't informed of action against individual doctors nor of the outcomes.
The 'guidelines' that concern us could perhaps be challenged along the lines you suggest but, as lay people, we are unlikely to be taken seriously and the lack of technical correctness in them would probably be brushed aside.
I like nBob's suggestion of approaching Tom Kark, but even his expert opinion would probably cost the earth, although he has experience of both Dr Skinner's case and Dr Myhill's, so might already have his own thoughts on our treatment.
the biggest obstacle to suing a doctor for negligence is the cost of taking court action because so far as I know, legal aid is not available for most cases of medical negligence. However, there are many solicitors who will take cases on a no win no fee basis.
the steps for proving medical negligence are
1. the doctor must owe a duty of care
2. that duty of care must be breached
3. harm must result from that breach
by being a doctor i.e professing to be able to diagnose and treat medical conditions, the professional relationship establishes the duty of care to the patient. Further, a GP must know about hypothyroidism - its on their syllabus and they have a duty under Good Medical Practice to keep up to date.
two legal cases are of interest to thyroid patients
The medical negligence case of Bolam v Friern Hospital established that a doctor is not guilty of negligence if he has acted in accordance with a practice accepted as proper by a responsible body of medical men skilled in that particular art . . . Putting it the other way round, a man is not negligent, if he is acting in accordance with such a practice, merely because there is a body of opinion who would take a contrary view
It follows that the RCP/BTA is a body of medical opinion and under this piece of case law, you would think that means that doctors who follow the RCP/BTA statement are free from action in negligence.
HOWEVER
the later case of Bolitho v City and Hackney Health Authority said that the court is not bound to hold that a defendant doctor escapes liability for negligent treatment or diagnosis just because he leads evidence from a number of medical experts who are genuinely of opinion that the defendant's treatment or diagnosis accorded with sound medical practice.
In other words just because a doctor follows the RCP statement it doesn't stop him being negligent.
their Lordships went on to say the court has to be satisfied that the exponents of the body of opinion relied upon can demonstrate that such opinion has a logical basis.
Their Lordships also went on to say that the doctor must weigh up the risks against the benefits.
We have a substantial weight of evidence to show that the RCP/BTA statement is absolutely not logical and a weight of evidence to show that the risks of atrial fibrillation and osteoporosis are either minimal or non existent if thyroxine is managed properly.
Further we have many stories of how the misdiagnosis has caused harm.
All that is needed is for someone with deep pockets to approach a lawyer to review the cases and select either one or a number of cases to take to court. the point would be to get a judgement and costs rather than damages. Damages would be useful but would be better used in paying for better treatment of thyroid patients.
Tom Kark QC springs to mind because he acted as legal Councel for the GMC and reviewed Sarah Myhills case, which resulted in her case being dropped by the GMC. he was also legal Coucel to the Mid Staffs Inquiry. I expect his fees to be rather high. BTW I am not Tom Kark
Is the other way to see if he would take a class action approach and sue a group of doctors or in fact the RCA/BTA where the costs could be spread amongst a large number of people.
Before you even think of sueing, get a copy of your full medical file. This is best done via a solicitor as what you get and what is in your file are 2 different items altogether. Drs are approached and if they feel a part of your file may cause harm or upset etc they will refuse to give it to you. Not that you would know this.
Any surery, make sure what is onthe consent form is identical to what they say. If they say they are removing nodules form your thyroid, make sure it says theya re removing all the nodules before signing it. One thing not on there that you were expecting to have, will be denied it was mentioned. They love to say well it wasnt on the consent form.
Not always is your Consultant the man doing the surgery, he may lead you to believe he is, but he isnt. So its what is passed on to the actual surgeon is what you get.
Yes you can sue the hosptial. No it doesnt take resources out of the hosptial at all. The compensation and legal fees are covered by the hosptials insurance and a segmented amount set aside just in case of legal dispute occurs.
The NHS uses Solicitors who will drag the case on for as long as possible. Simple reason for it, it is money and most people cannot afford to fund a long drawn out case. So they longer they draw it out the quickr you will buckle and drop the case.
Also you have to prove that there is a case for medical neglect - failure to treat apporpriately. Medical Negliance - failure to rectify a problem within set time. Such as surgery= leaving an object inside. etc
The NHS legal team will use the full medcial terminology. The average person will not understand it and again therefore back off and drop the case.
Another trick in the NHS team is to say you should have complained using the officat channels at the time the issue arose. Also any time lasped while this was going on will also be used to say, well its in the past and the NHS has a cut off period of x years for you to sue.
They can be faught and people have won but it is not an easy thing to do and the tricks they come out with is nothing more than typical bullies would use to grind you down.
.All communication must be sent recorded with signature. Otherwise it never arrived. All names must be exact or they'll claim no such person is of that name. That can include who did the operation, if that is the case, who was in the theatre and what they did or was their role.
Hands up anybody who knows who was in the theatre when you go in knocked out and sound asleep.
You will have to prove fault has occured. Prove you complained and what occured. Have other Drs back you up saying fault was and by what means. You will undergo several Drs testing you, some Drs the NHS will refuse to accept from and will insist you use theirs. So expect those Drs to refute your claims.
You will have to have a plan to what you want from such dispute. Be it answers, apology compensation, continued treatment. Never deviate from it.
I went the PALS route first. I complained and never heard anything for years. Then I opened a new complaint and got one meeting with my Dr and this was all recorded in a n hours meeting. Now its gone to pot as soembody took over and theyve made a right pigs ear and are most definetly not on the paitents side.
To be honest the PALS team I feel that they are not that helpful at all, as in my experince All I wanted was answers and explantion of why things were left up in the air and now no surgery can ever be done to me. etc. right horror story. Those answers are still elusive and I have no trust in the hosptials at all, Certainly wont be having operation as I honestly think I will not wake up and certainly they wont help me if I hit an problem while under.
There lies the biggest hurdle. Once the can of worms is opened and you sue or complain. You are tarnished. The little looks or snide remarks will occur. You would think that this wouldnt happen but it does. My best friend complained after her surgeon didnt do the operation he said he would. Everytime she ended up in hosptials, various wards, not same problems all the time either. She got the looks and remarks. It got so bad, she walked out and back down to A & E to get a drip changed.and to be given her Flourinef (she had Addisdon's Disease) Lucky for her the same Dr who sent her up was on duty and went ballistic at the ward for what they were doing. He also lodged a formal complaint about it, quoting that she was put in mortal danger for no reason other than petty school yard bullies.and gosspis. Not professional NSH staff. He also stayed with her when he was not on duty and made sure somebody was with her 24 hrs a day. Thats a real Dr, rare one too.
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