iodine

[sporty333]

hi there...

Does anyone take iodine to help their thyroid and if so, whats a good choice as a supplement?

Cheers

Simon

[PR4NOW]

sporty333, iodine is tricky stuff. I would not suggest taking more than the RDA of 150mcg unless you are working with a doctor who is familiar with it and can watch over you or unless you have researched the subject throughly and know what problems to look out for. Some people take more and do just fine but there are a fair amount that cause themselves problems and increase their thyroid problems. Iodine is not to be taken lightly. PR

[sporty333 in reply to PR4NOW]

Hi Pr...

Well Dr P wrote back to me today and suggested i take some. He just put '2 a day'. also to take Tyrosine...1000mg a day of that. Wish he would recommend a brand or something lol

What problems might i experience then? I'm hypothyroid by the way/

Si

[PR4NOW in reply to sporty333]

sporty333, I'm glad you clarified that you are working with Dr. P., I would have him clarify, "2 what?". Sea Kelp can be around 200-250 mcg per pill, more or less, and as sarah says below it is a gentle way to try additional iodine. Also as sarah says if you feel strange for any reason, STOP and talk to Dr. P. For some people if their diet is lacking in iodine it can be very beneficial. Dr. P has been doing this awhile and is good at what he does. I feel you are in good hands. My sister worked with him years ago and he was very helpful. If you want to read about iodine there is a lot out there. A good starting point is Dr. Brownstein's book, "Iodine Why You Need It" amazon.co.uk/Iodine-Why-You...

He also wrote "Salt Your Way To Health" amazon.co.uk/Salt-Your-Way-...

Working at the lower doses is much different than iodine loading, 12mg per day,and much less problematic. Working with Dr. P. you should not have problems. PR

[sporty333 in reply to PR4NOW]

Yeah but all he put in the covering letter was 2 kelp a day! That's it! Hardly much guidance is it lol

I'll try calling in the morning but I won't get to speak to him will I!

[sky00 in reply to PR4NOW]

the Japanese on average consume roughly 12.5 mg that's milligrams per day not micro grams and they have the lowest rates of breast cancers and some other organs--dr.david brownstein is the authority on iodine--dr. p even refers to him-- davids book explains all you need to know--even the rates of ingesting more than you need and being hyper for awhile, then just lowering doses--however he highly reccomends having the 24 hour iodine LOADING urine test.. not the random pee test without the iodine loading that endos try to give us--that test only reflects a few days at best, so his book has the answers--i take iodoral tablets 12.5 mg as i don't trust the purity or accuracy & content of the liquid iodine/iodide---someone well me actually should stress that when one talks about taking iodine--it IS NOT the over the counter iodine that one puts on cuts and scrapes that we keep in our first aid kits.. strongly suggest to read dr. brownsteins book-- his company also sells iodoral--but only cause he knows it works and most folks are iodine deficient and suffering needlessly esp.. see chapters on what substances make one iodine def--- chlorine bromide fluoride certain vegs eaten raw etc.etc... don't be afraid of iodine--your thyroid and whole body needs......

[sarahstevenson]

Sea Kelp can be a gentle try to iodine available in supplement shops - take one and see - check to see first what other folks recommend - if racey STOP and feedback to Dr P. My son tried it as recommended by a homeopath and found it to be the wonder drug - for a while which then tapered off - he's the one who has also been on a salt regime. He's doing much better and takes a mix of NAX NA and kelp as and when he thinks he needs it.

[sporty333 in reply to sarahstevenson]

Are you, is he under dr p? :0)

[greygoose]

Sporty333! I'm surprised at you! All the discussion there's been on here about iodine - didn't you read any of it?

OK, so iodine... well, we need iodine to make thyroid hormone along with tyrosine. However, a thyroid gland can only take just so much. It doesn't necessarily happen that the more of the ingredients you put in, the more finished product you get out. That's true with any kind of manufacture.

It depends on why you're hypo. Did Dr P test you to see if you are iodine deficient? If you are, it could work wonders. But if you're not... If you are Hashi's or your gland is damaged some other way, it cannot up its production just because you feed it more iodine and tyrosine.

It may work for a while, but for how long? People get better when they start to take iodine because it's stimulating the gland to make more hormone. They pronounce themselves cured. But one day, that gland will just burn out. Yup, been there, done that. Got no thyroid!

So then, you're worse off than when you started. Especially if you're Hashi's.

I knew a girl on another board who was always extolling the virtues of iodine. She had Hashi's and suddenly announced that she had come off all thyroid hormone and was feeling wonderful. A year or so later, she said she was on x amount of T3. No more talk of iodine.

But there's worse. If you're not Hashi's, you can become Hashi's, if you take excess iodine...

I've been told that all this won't happen if you take iodine with tyrosine, but I'm not taking anybody's word for that. I've asked for proof. Nobody could give me any. And that's the thing I've found with iodine advocats, if you ask for proof, how, why does this work? They become vague, and I've known them become agressive! It's always seemed to me like a sort of religion: don't ask for proof, you must take it on faith.

But faith didn't get me anywhere. Iodine ruined my life. Now, I try to stop that happening to other people by warning them of the dangers and stressing the need to get tested for iodine deficiency. Ask Dr P why he thinks you should take iodine. What will it do for you? What are the dangers? See if he can come up with any answers, and then you can share them with us! lol

Hugs, Grey

[sporty333 in reply to greygoose]

Hi Grey,

ok, fair point! I know nothing of iodine so thats why i asked on here. I got my fouth diary back from Dr P today and thats what he put on the cover note. He suggests me trying it. I guess i would take his word for it.

I am hypothroid with hypoadrenal. Not extreme but enough to keep me from feeling well. My T4 levels have gone down instead of up but my TSH is below 1.0. I'm presuming Dr P thinks i do not have enough thyroid hormone in me.

I will attempt to call Dr P's office in the morning. Its never easy to get through though!

Thanks for your posting though :0)

Cheers

Si

[buggles84 in reply to sporty333]

Hi Sporty! I was talking to Dr P regarding starting iodine a few days ago. Like some people say, it is not something to be taken lightly.......But there is evidence that for some it does turn things around ......even for hashi's and graves patients. I have just read Dr Brownsteins book on iodine, and from what i understand, it is all dependant on the oxidation process. If you start taking iodine whilst antioxidant pathways are depleted ( such as selenium and glutathione ) this is where the iodine can do destructive harm. I suggest doing some significant research first, buy the book and see then if you want to try that route. Here is just a little link i found that may answer some questions.

healyourselfathome.com/HEAL...

Use all the related links on the right hand column as there are many pages relating to the use of iodine.

I am going to get a urine iodine test first before i commit to anything. I am a bit nervous about this, but other people who warn you about it (and rightly so!) were in the same position at one point in their lives, so i guess it's just something you have to make your own mind up on based on research.......but just make sure research is exactly what you do before deciding!

I will give you an update if i decide to take the plunge!

[sporty333 in reply to buggles84]

Blimey this sounds complicated!! Lol

Why is dr p suggesting trying it then if its dangerous? Or is it that dangerous?

Is kelp as bad then?

Cheers

Simon

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to sporty333]

The important thing about kelp does seem to be the iodine content. In that sense, it is one way of taking iodine.

I suggest you spend a bit of time reading this chapter of Thyroid Manager:

thyroidmanager.org/chapter/...

Not suggesting you have to be able to answer questions on it - but it does give quite a lot of information.

Rod

[sky00 in reply to helvella]

may i inject--that one would need to take 2 huge handfuls of kelp if one was iodine deficient dr .brownsteins books are the authority on iodine-with reference by many other authority's dr.peat etc.etc.one can see on you tube loads of his videos--i had a 24 iodine urine test and was told yes you are deficient -HOWEVER this only represents the last few days, don't worry... well the last few days is THE exact diet i have been eating for the last five years--thus i have been deficient all that time, that 24hr test is NOT the best test, one needs the 24 hr. urine iodine loading test, where one is given iodine/iodide then pee for 24hr. that tells the true picture of one's deficiency-- i currently take Iodoral 12.5mg iodine/iodide-note that is milligrams not micrograms, as in kelp bladderwack etc. & i trust Iodoral as the lugols liquid is suspect by who is making it up ,it's purity, their hygiene their integrity etc. the pill form Iodoral is consistent, regulated more strictly--i feel loads better have way more energy and my body feels it needs it -will continue till i finally get to see endo & some treatment hopefully ndt or at least t3. by the way BE prepared to detox of the nasties in ones body, see dr. brownstein ) but it passes and iodine is doing it's job..also note iodines relationship to cancer --of the breast prostrate etc.etc. again dr.b or dr.bob or dr.peat, stop the thyroid madness is excellent and their websites... hope this helps someone anyone.... sky

[buggles84 in reply to sporty333]

I've heard kelp also has some toxic elements also. Lugol's solution is supposed to be the ideal one.

[buggles84 in reply to buggles84]

Celtic sea salt or pink himalayan is good.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to buggles84]

I hope you are not suggesting celtic sea salt as a source of iodine?

In general sea salts are LOW in iodine because any available iodine is taken up by what lives in the sea - especially some seaweeds. So the amount left to go into the brine pans to form salt crystals is tiny. And even more sublimes from those very brine pans.

Himalayan salt also contains very little iodine. One analysis of a sample is here:

atthemeadow.com/shop/Resour...

(Not sure how trustworthy that is - but seems close to elsewhere that I have looked in the past.)

[sky00 in reply to sporty333]

this is a year later hopefully you have read dr. brownsteins book by now and see folks that don't understand proper iodine supplementation---do alot of scare mongering even some gp s... where is their medical learning of the basics.....

[sky00 in reply to buggles84]

hopefully the 24hr. iodine LOADING urine test--not the regular pee in a bottle and send off--that is an incomplete testing and only shows a three or four day result-- the nhs is lacking in proper testing as in the loading test where one takes x amount of iodine tablets and so on and so forth---see dr. brownstein, for explanation on proper urine test

[PR4NOW in reply to greygoose]

Grey, if you wouldn't mind sharing, how much iodine and for how long were you taking it? Was Hashi's confirmed when you started taking iodine? Did you take selenium and/or tyrosine along with it or any other supplements? Just trying to learn more from people's actual experience. PR

[greygoose in reply to PR4NOW]

PR I would love to share this with everybody, but I really can't remember. It was over thirty years ago. In those days, I knew nothing about health matters except colds and flu and stuff like that. I didn't know what a thyroid was and I'd never heard of and endo!

However, all my life I'd had weight problems and little things that I now know are thyroid related: skin problems, breathing problems; terrible menstrual problems, etc.

What happened was, I went to the doctor because I had a large black spot in one eye, just on the edge of my vision, that was beginning to bother me when driving. It was not long after we'd moved to France and my French wasn't very good. My ex thought his French was better (it wasn't!) so he dragged me off with him.

He explained - more or less - the problem to the doctor, who didn't even glance at me. The doctor asked him if I was hysterical and my ex said 'oh yes! ha ha ha'. They both had a good laugh over this and then the doctor said 'give her a glass of this every evening after dinner', and lead us to the door, session over! He didn't look at my eye, he didn't even look at me! He didn't ask any questions let alone examine me or do blood tests. And he didn't say what he thought was wrong or why he was giving me what he was giving me. And I was far too conscious of my bad French to open my mouth (I've changed since then!) and, besides, in those days I still believed (almost) that doctor knew best.

So, on getting the bottle from the pharmacy, we worked out with a dictionary that it was iodine. And every night I filled a ligueur glass (it was all very unscientific, no measuring) and swigged it down. It was dreadful! But I must have taken it for several months - no idea how many - because I remember taking it on holiday with me!

Once I'd finished the course, I forgot about it. I didn't feel anything at the time, good or bad. And the black spot was still there. But some time later, all my little symptoms started to get worse. I put on a lot of weight. I got more and more colds. My allergies worsened. I got terrible joint and muscle pains, there were days I couldn't walk, couldn't get out of bed. And my menstral problems escalated to a point where I had to have a hysterectomy (because, of course, the gynea knew nothing about thyroid!).

But being Hashi's, there were times when I was ok, and I thought I'd got better, only to go rapidly down-hill again. But I didn't get diagnosed until about fifteen years later, by which time, my thyroid was on its last legs, practically all gone.

So, after jumping around from one doctor to another, finding them all equally useless and ignorant, I found France's leading hormone expert and got an appt with him. All went well for some time, he seemed to know what he was talking about. Not only that, but he liked it that I knew about my disease. He encouraged me to look things up on internet. And he said, once you get the hang of this, you won't need me! Good job, because I don't have him anymore! lol One day, during a telephone consultation, he said: you should try taking iodine. I said, no way! I explained what had happened to me and told him that I'd read how bad iodine was for Hashi's etc. He said, ah, yes, but you have to take tyrosine with it, it only works if you take tyrosine. I said well, a) you told me my thyroid was dead, so how can it work again? b) before I take anything I want a blood test to prove I need it c) I want written proof that this has been studied and how it works and all about it. He said, look it up on the internet! I tried but could find nothing on the subject of iodine with tyrosine. I had my blood test and the result was through the roof! The last thing I needed was more iodine. I already had too much and it wasn't helping at all! And after that it became impossible to get a rdv with him because he was so busy, and my condition got worse so it became difficult for me to travel anyway. So I never saw him again and never got to discuss my high levels of iodine. Sigh.

Since then, I've read more and more about iodine and it gives me the shivers when I read about how much some people take when you only need such a small amount over a whole life-time. I woudl hate them to end up like me, a sick, fat, old lady, with hardly any hair left, who can hardly breath, can't stand for more than a few minutes and can only walk a few yards without having to sit down. It's not the way I planned to end my days!

But I imagine none of that is of any use to you. You want more precise details. And I really regret that I didn't pay more attention to what I was doing at the time. Ah, well, you live and learn. Hopefully!

Hugs, Grey

[PR4NOW in reply to greygoose]

Grey, thanks for telling your story. That certainly is a classic example of bad advice from a doctor. It is precise enough to give me an idea what happened. Odds are that was Lugols solution and if you were already dealing with Hashi's that was not the correct approach and even if the Hashi's had not developed yet it still wasn't the correct approach. It is just appalling how many of us pay the price for bad information from doctors.

Since Simon is working with Dr. P and using a much, much smaller amount he should be able to avoid the problems you experienced. Hopefully he will report back to us on his experience. Thanks again, PR

[PR4NOW in reply to greygoose]

Grey, PS, Did you know that hysteria was a legitimate medical diagnois for women in the US until 1952? Thank goodness there are a lot more women doctors and thus more research directed towards women's problems then there used to be. Unfortunately, this hasn't helped with thyroid problems. PR

[greygoose in reply to PR4NOW]

I don't know about the US, but I know it was in Victorian England. They had a peculiar treatment for it, too, which I won't go into on this forum!

My story is a good example of why people should not blindly trust doctors but should ask questions and press for answers. With hind-sight I see myself as extremely stupid but that's maybe not fair because this particular doctor was arrogant in the extreme. Even though he was only a GP. He looked down his nose at people as if they were ants to be crushed under his boot. Actually, he was quite terrifying and nothing about him encouraged questions. I did see him on two other occassions for my children - simply because I didn't know how to find another doctor! - and he was even worse with children; nasty sticky creatures! Ho hum. So it goes...

But even if Dr P is recommending a lower dose of iodine, I would still push Simon to ask questions: how, what, where and when. And, above all, why! Just because it's Dr P and everyone thinks he's wonderful (don't say he isn't but don't know the man), it doesn't mean he's infallable. As I explained, my wonderful doctor in Paris who seemed to have all the answers, suddenly became iodine crazy without being able to give any explanation. Caution, ever caution. Grey

[buggles84 in reply to greygoose]

Iodine is only a problem when oxidation pathways are depleted. Some people need to take up to 50mg per day to get the desired effect, i know someone with hashi's who's had success with this amount. Just because it doesn't work for some people, it doesn't mean it is dangerous. The link i inserted above explains a little.

[greygoose in reply to buggles84]

How long ago did they have success with it? And what sort of success are you talking about? The problem as I see it is that there are no long-term studies. People stimulate their thyroids with iodine, the gland responds by producing more iodine, people feel well. But how long can that last? There is no evidence that it is permenant. At least, not that I have found. If you can supply me with some, I am ready to revise my opinions.

And how many doctors investigate oxidation pathways when they prescribe iodine for someone?

The thing is, as I have said many times, if you take thyroid hormone replacement, you ARE taking iodine. Now my thyroid has been destroyed by Hashi's (thanks to the iodine) and my body is not therefore using that iodine, you would be amazed at how much I have in me!

Actually, it is a scientific fact that iodine is dangerous, I didn't invent the idea.

I've read some of the stuff on your link. It doesn't convince me. I've read exactly the opposite on other sites. Your site encourages people to self-treat - how is the average person to know about their oxidation pathways? Seems to me that you want it all ways.

Have you tried iodine yourself? You talk about people you know, but would you try it yourself? I have tried. I know the results. Yes, I know we're all different, but the odds are that there are other people out there just like me who will end up with the same damage.

If you heard that people were about to dose themselves with arsenic in the mistaken idea that it was going to make them fit and well, wouldn't you want to warn them against the dangers? That's only what I'm doing. After that they make up their own minds.

Grey

[buggles84 in reply to greygoose]

I know it's easy for some people to be bitter about it when they've had a rough time like yourself. But iodine is not at all dangerous, various organs in the body rely on iodine to operate The parietal cells in the stomach are just one example, it's then no co-incidence that some people with hashimoto's also have parietal cell antibodies. If you read Dr Brownsteins book on iodine, you'll find all the evidence you need there. It's too much hydrogen peroxide that does the damage. It's a bit like the cholesterol scaremongering when in fact it's inflammation that does damage to the blood vessels, just because it's at the scene of the crime it does not mean it's responsible.

No doctors test for these intense toxic and nutritional elements on the NHS, but nowdays although at quite a cost there are some good laboratories that do these tests. My test showed selenium was undetectable amongst other absorption issues, so i'm addressing them first.

Levothyroxine nearly put me into a coma at one point because of too much RT3 but these endo's didn't have a clue what was happening, but i wont say bad things about it, because once things are in the right place i'm sure one day it will work for me one day. It's unfortunate that many of us have to self treat because of NHS cost cutting which doesn't enable people to get state of the art testing. Maybe iodine will make me feel terrible........or maybe it could be a blessing. But yes, once i get results of my iodine loading test done, i will not hesitate. Any nutritional element can be dangerous when taken without considering co factors, like calcium and magnesium work together, so do iodine and selenium.

[greygoose in reply to buggles84]

And I forgot the most essential part...

You said, and I quote, 'Just because it doesn't work for some people, it doesn't mean it is dangerous.' It's not a case of just 'not working', we're not talking about aspirin here, it is a case of things getting ten times, a hundred times, a thousand times worse! Or even causing cancer. Did you know that excess iodine can cause cancer? Can turn a euthyroid person hypothyroid? Can cause a person who is just slightly hypo to develope Hashi's? I don't call that just 'not working'.

The fact that certain organs need it, does not mean it isn't dangerous. In normal quantities it isn't dangerous. In excess it is. And I'm not saying all this because I'm 'bitter' (so condescending) but because it is documented in many, many places. What happened to me could happen to you, Not saying it will, but be aware that it can.

And that's all I have to say on the subject.

Grey

[buggles84 in reply to greygoose]

Hi Grey, I've read stories about it curing cancer but not causing it. It's a fact that your body as a whole needs iodine. Yes it could turn a euthyroid person hypo, but it's the entire process it goes through which has to be looked at. It's also a fact, like i said, that it has helped people with hashi's regain full health. Your opinions are badly one sided, i think reading Dr Brownsteins book would enlighten you to another view of this. Clearly you have just read a few articles on the net without trying to understand the mechanics of how iodine and oxidation works.

[greygoose in reply to buggles84]

Well, that's all you know. But if it comes to that, your opinion isn't entirely unbiased! But I'm not going to discuss if with you anymore, in any shape or form. Enough is enough!

[sky00 in reply to greygoose]

all the proof one needs is in dr. david brownsteins book--- have you read it per chance--he is an authority a respected and highly qualified medical doctor--so as i replied to sporty---" the Japanese on average consume roughly 12.5 mg that's milligrams per day not micro grams and they have the lowest rates of breast cancers and some other organs--dr.david brownstein is the authority on iodine--dr. p even refers to him-- davids book explains all you need to know--even the rates of ingesting more than you need and being hyper for awhile, then just lowering doses--however he highly reccomends having the 24 hour iodine LOADING urine test.. not the random pee test without the iodine loading that endos try to give us--that test only reflects a few days at best, so his book has the answers--i take iodoral tablets 12.5 mg as i don't trust the purity or accuracy & content of the liquid iodine/iodide---someone well me actually should stress that when one talks about taking iodine--it IS NOT the over the counter iodine that one puts on cuts and scrapes that we keep in our first aid kits.. strongly suggest to read dr. brownsteins book-- his company also sells iodoral--but only cause he knows it works and most folks are iodine deficient and suffering needlessly esp.. see chapters on what substances make one iodine def--- chlorine bromide fluoride certain vegs eaten raw etc.etc... don't be afraid of iodine--your thyroid and whole body needs......