No surprise to us..."Hospital admissions for la... - Thyroid UK
No surprise to us..."Hospital admissions for lack of vitamins soaring in England, NHS figures show"
A lot of older people have a very poor diet. I was in a pub yesterday and sat next to a couple of elderly women one of them was very frail and tottered off to the toilet. I asked her friend if she was ok she told me her friend had Alzheimer’s and was not eating properly she had tried to get the woman’s daughter involved but the daughter had her own family and did not seem interested. I found it all quite depressing I am 65 but this lady was 86. What lies ahead for me? Her friend then went off to the toilet and I helped her zip up her coat.
I bet that lady helped her daughter out with childcare when it suited though and I expect if she has any inheritance they’ll be more than happy to collect that,
I remember when I worked in the hospital there was a family who spent plenty of time complaining about their mother’s care but when she died it was us with her. They were nowhere to be seen.
🤬
No surprise at all …..😐.
sad. infuriating.
our first cornish xmas i planned to have 4ish elderly guests for lunch with self & 12 yr old. we were new so i didnt panic when i couldnt figure out how to connect with any, rang council & asked how best to do it. was informed that would require police clearance etc. yes, really. i almost laughed but she was serious. took the lesson & ended up chucking out half the food as it was too much for us to eat.
in my experience uk is heading towards problems becoming too big to fix. it will have taken less than 40 yrs to totally collapse the economy. remember when people were tutting about ukrainians abandoning their elderly in war zones? how is this different? situation for most pensioners is about to get dramatically worse -
i recently heard australia has 800,000 homeless women pensioners. AUSTRALIA!
I note:
There were also 38,140 courses of treatment involving people with vitamin B12 deficiency anaemia, up from 35,983 the year before, and 227,097 courses of treatment for other B vitamin deficiency, up from 201,320.
I suggest that we need to take such figures with caution - especially when they point at diet and affordability.
Specifically for B12, how many were primarily due to ignorance? E.g. moving towards a fully or partially vegetarian or vegan diet without realising that will very often result in a lack of B12.
And the flip side of patient ignorance, how many were due to failure of the healthcare system to have identified pernicious anaemia sooner - out of professional ignorance - thus avoiding hospital treatment?
When it comes to folate, if you can tolerate folic acid, then taking 400 micrograms a day can be achieved for around £5 a year. Which is probably within reach of most people. But circumstances such as lack of accommodation and numerous other issues affecting individual lives might make it between difficult and impossible to adhere to taking every day. (Yes, there are issues around folic acid supplementation masking B12 deficiency.)
Yes, our financial well-being is a major factor. But don't miss other causes.
On the iron front, it feels as if iron infusions have increased considerably. Obviously limited and incomplete data! But at least some iron deficiency seems to be contributed to by other disorders - here, likely hypothyroidism. But could it also be that iron infusions are occurring because the health system is (sometimes) better at offering them when needed?
Not sure how the statistics were compiled, but it could be interesting to see how many were repeat infusions?
Exactly what I thought, it’s data, but not as we know it Jim…. Seriously though as you point out the data is not much use without rationale applied, bit like TSH blood test.
Edit: since following this site I’ve started eating meat for my health. I’m not an ethical vegetarian, just have never liked meat ever. Now I eat a little twice a week
TM,
How terribly sad ☹️. Not sure of the answer if people can’t afford the high cost of foods. Food banks can only do so much. I’ve heard good reports about the OLIO app but the elderly might miss out.
If only the NHS would acknowledge the importance of these basic things and at least flag up and advise folk about possible supplementation rather than labelling everything 'Normal' when results really aren't at healthy levels🫤
In some ways the older folk are more switched on and have a better understanding of basic nutritional needs and know what real food is... they often remember cod liver oil and vit c handouts
Even just some posters in the waiting rooms 🤷♀️
Yes I find that particularly frustrating. If the basics are not being considered what hope do the elderly have if they don't have someone aware to check blood test results for them? Why do gp's tend to appear to ignore symptoms? I realise this is mentioned so often on the forum but it still really frustrates me 😐 everytime I read 'you're in range so everything's fine' makes me feel really angry.
I managed to get an elderly relative's B12 injections restarted after they'd been stopped. She still has tingling in her fingers 😐 I pushed for every other day injections but got fobbed off with the usual excuses 'we don't do that' etc. I'm still working on that but as it was my first visit to her surgery thought it better to start gently as I'd only just met the nurse.
Being able to check blood test results on the NHS app has been a real eye opener. She has bottom of the range folate levels but told everything's fine with her blood test results. She has tiredness and memory issues so after getting her B12 injections reinstated I will be starting her on a folate supplement a bit later on.
My relative is of the era 'doctor knows best' and so accepts how things are. Since having thyroid issues and becoming more aware and proactive with my own supplement levels I feel more confident in approaching her surgery. But it really shouldn't be like this; why should we have to point out what is glaringly obvious but is being glossed over by the GP's?
Well done you 🤗
Sadly is isn't just the old, my daughter often encourages her friends struggling with fatigue, foggy, anxiety, headaches, stomach or skin issues (20's and 30's) to get tested only to see the 'Normal' result and she then educates them on what they really need to do to help themselves, many of them almost anaemic either B12, iron or both, generally terrible folate and Vit D levels 😕
I think part of the issue is GP's and hospital doctors dont really get any training in the importance of nutrition. They are very much focused on disease management and pharmaceuticals and rather miss the point that poor diet and nutritional deficiencies are the wellspring that many diseases follow from. And telling people that a barely " in range" result is acceptable is plain wrong.
Another issue I think is that many dont cook nutritious food themselves, either from lack of knowledge, confidence, time or money. People rely on fast food, takeaways or convenience food, which is often ultra processed and lacks any nutritional value.
Plus I think many youngsters especially get very weird and wacky lifestyle advice from 'gurus' on social media who often prescribe very faddy and restrictive diets.
These people are downright dangerous imo.
They are not qualified to give advice but amass millions of followers and tell them to give up this, that or the other without telling them that if they cut out something they need an alternate source of whatever vitamin or mineral the food they've removed provided. So people end up severely deficient in protein, iron, calcium, B12 or vitamin D.
Can only agree. GP’s have a lot to answer for regarding these levels. Honestly they must know better but they just ignore low as long as in range. I asked about a year ago for my Zinc to be tested as it’s often low. It came back on my NHS App under range but no dr has ever mentioned it to me 🤷🏻♀️ I just went & bought some tablets. At the beginning of lockdown our practice stopped B12 injections unless you had Pernicious Anaemia. I saw an Endocrinologist & mentioned I had been on injections for 12 years. He wrote to my GP to reinstate them. He did initially but then reduced them again to 6 monthly. It would be sensible for everyone to have yearly vitamin tests but I doubt that’s likely.
I don't think they do know much about the importance of vits and mins, I too managed to get a zinc test only for my Dr to say "I haven't got a clue about low zinc this is the first time I've ever tested it in 30 years, I'll refer your to Nutritional Health" their suggestion was to eat Special K!
Frankly I am surprised by the actual collation of this information. It shouts about the complete incompetence of our so-called health system. I agree with all observations of all posters.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul is the basic policy in place. A proper Thinktank needs to be set up (and quickly) to redefine government objectives, since succeeding governments have failed to properly move anything forward. They have forgotten their purpose it seems to me.
As a tax payer our only voice is through the vote and thats not working.
As for those of us who are unhappy with our treatment, we seem to have no recourse for complaint. We see no research translating into treatment. We are in a position where this very old familiar illness in terms of successful treatment, has gone backwards, whilst treatments costing tens of thousands of pounds can be spent on one patient! I truly hate saying that because I don’t want anyone to suffer but if this is the reason many tens of thousands of patients who would/could do better for literally pennies, we have our heads on wrong.
GP’s frequently ignore low vitamin levels as inconsequential
I have a friend (a nurse) recently had high HBA1C result …..so GP “on her case”
But she is currently folate deficient …..GP didn’t even mention it
Low B12, folate or iron can cause false high HBA1C
myhealthexplained.com/diabe...
Falsely elevated Hb A1c
When red blood cell turnover is low, it can provide falsely high HbA1c values. This is because there is a disproportionate number of older red blood cells. This can occur in patients who have iron, vitamin B12, or folate deficiency anaemia
Indeed, and glucose can also be elevated if someone is not treated properly for hypothyroidism. But instead of increasing their thyroid medication, they rather berate the patient and tell them to lay off sugar (which is not really the problem) and give them some metformin - rather than tackling the root cause, which is a lack of thyroxine!
Well the cynical side of me thinks that diabetes diagnosis and management is a nice little earner for GP's, whereas they get zilch for folate deficiency. But perhaps its just me.
And me. A recent post pointed out the medical training is led by big pharma so naturally conditions that don’t produce money for these companies are not well covered during the training years , if at all and thyroid cases are an obvious example with diet another. The diet we have now has altered immensely in the last 80 years and so have the diseases we all get, surely there is a link. Throw in lifestyle changes like 24/7 jobs, shifts, sedentary jobs and the stressful life we have it’s no wonder we are an ill nation. I often wonder how GPs in training manage to fit in all the new learning required for all the new conditions compared to 80 years ago. The answer is glaring obviously isn’t it, they don’t, they just stopped learning about the established conditions like thyroid issues and how to treat them.
Nope you’re correct. I remember having some blood tests and the GP said my cholesterol came back slightly over the normal range. Anyway she looked into it further with more of my data and my risk of heart disease was low.
I remember thinking I’m taking no statins or whatever else you have in mind I’ll stick to a bowl of porridge every other morning.
I’ve been a vegetarian for over 30 years, don’t smoke and I’m slim.
The problem is, that our modern diet consists of too many processed foods, which lack the proper nutritional composition. And even if you make everything or most things from scratch, sadly the soils, where our food is grown, are depleted and therefore lacking essential vitamins and minerals.
It also does not help that the general advice on vitamins is not adequate. The NHS recommendations for Vitamin D are 10 mcg or 400IU per day! Given that it is very difficult to get this amount of Vit D through diet alone (who wants to eat oily fish every day??) and we cannot produce any Vit D through the sun between October and March (angle of sun too low to produce Vit D in skin), many people will be deficient. And just taking 400IU of supplementation will not be enough either to top up the depleted stores.
So unless you are better informed that you need to take much higher doses to have an effect on increasing your levels, and that you also need Vit K2 and Magnesium to make the supplementation work, you will have no chance in achieving a good Vitamin D level. In addition, especially in the elderly, low Vit D can increase the risk of fractures and is also associated with longer hospital stays. So how much unnecessary admissions and extended hospital stays could be avoided, if proper advice on Vitamin D was given?!
30+ years ago when I had menopause problems and finally persuaded the doctor of it, I tried HRT. But this was a very early version of HRT and didn't suit me. So what to do? No google etc, but I scoured the books in our local library and kept on seeing mention of WNAS (women's nutritional advisory service).
I went to see them and their nutritional doctor. Result, change of diet and vitamin and mineral supplements as needed. This sorted me out so much that my sceptical husband sent a message back to him thanking him for making me well again.
We knew very little about nutrition then. We ate home cooked food which helped. Women of the generation before mine ended up in mental hospitals because there was no treatment.
It's interesting that hospitals are diagnosing deficiencies these days. I'm pretty sure that most GPs wouldn't recognise deficiencies as they don't have the right training - maybe a day or two in all their years in medical college.
GPS get paid extra for having pensioners on their books. It must annoy them that I haven’t seen a doctor in over 4 years I keep getting automated texts for the Well Woman clinic Covid Jab, Flu jab, Shingles jab Bowel cancer screening and breast cancer screening. They definitely want to keep me alive. What a pity they didn’t take as much care 15 years ago when I kept making appointments for various ailments. I had hair loss and was told that women of my age 47 should be expected to have thinner hair but if I wanted they would do me referral letter to see a private dermatologist. £250 later I was told female pattern balding and offered Regaine. So finally after 2 years of weight loss sweating and heart palpitations I saw a new GP who had recently joined the practice. Clutching my print out of blood results I told him I had asked someone on a hair site for advice was told I had a suppressed TSH of 0.002 and low vitamin D which was 7 and low Ferritin. He said he could see my goitre as soon as walked in. I could have kissed him after being treated for the menopause I actually had thyroid disease and it wasn’t all in my head. This helpful doctor actually wrote “delusional” on my records so perhaps not so helpful in the long run!
I now have gone rogue and look after my own health of course if I felt really ill I would see a GP but only for a cough and cold that’s all they are capable of treating in my honest opinion
My story is on my page if anyone is interested. Because my GP wasn’t at all.
We’ll said !!!!
I have just had a letter from the NHS asking me to take part in a GP Patient Survey. It is dated 1st January 2025. What a weird coincidence.
I of course told them my experience with my GP surgery because I have nothing to hide
Definitely a weird coincidence! Speak your truth !
If I never had to see another doctor again it would be too soon. I’m not referring to those in hospital but GP’s.
I had an MRI scan of my spine after I kept getting headaches. I was told a doctor would contact me with the results the following week.
They didn’t. I had to wait nearly a month because I had to arrange a telephone consultation so the doctor could give me the information.
I was referred for Pilates and given exercises which actually made the headaches worse.
After a few sessions of acupuncture from my mum who is a qualified therapist the problem resolved.
The best bit is the physio actually gave me a rundown of the report before the GP did.
Absolute joke.
unfortunately we live in a society that promotes extremes ie we have to do so much now and be so much now … I myself count myself in as an absolute nutter when it comes to just packing it in - I don’t stop. ie I had a “week off over Christmas” so obviously I did my usual cleaning, exercise, i have single handily fitted new internal doors through the entire house, done the Christmas stuff - shopping and decorations etc, fitted a new carpet, runs to the tip, sorted some finance for a car purchase etc etc etc then we need to work ourselves to death to afford to live in this world which I honestly don’t know how people do it. I’m fortunate currently that I earn enough to run my home with a little spare to do all the above- many don’t and it’s a scramble for survival. I’ve crammed it in. I will burn out but still much to do. We are all guilty of it. This in turn leaves us trying to “look after ourselves” I myself after another mad “day off yesterday” thought sod it I'm exhausted pizza it is … then I feel poo because I had to make do rather than treat myself to something of quality. I work in the NHS it’s already on the brink of collapse and certainly can’t be turned around in my 20+ years left of working 😞 in my opinion society has to change and evidence shows it won’t 🤷♀️
I used to work for the NHS with my husband we worked at 3 different hospitals in different departments
Are we all doomed then? I agree with you and it’s frightening to think if the children’s future.
I hope we’re not all doomed … I fear it’ll take a long long time though
Just as an aside to your thoughts on how we all cram so much into our busy life styles these days. The pandemic brought early retirement to us both as our jobs ended and in our early 60s we decided not to look for new roles. I honestly have no idea how we used to manage full time jobs with lots of travel, maintaining the house and garden ourselves, cleaning, shopping etc visiting aging family in the evenings. I’d like to say the house is sparkling and garden like Kew but the only change I can admit to is home baking and ironing everything including socks but apart from swimming twice a week and recently caring for aged Mum the time just seems to disappear. I think that in itself is a sign of being retired. An added bonus is spending time together, ours is a second marriage and until retirement we worked such long stressful jobs we hardly saw each other but now we couldn’t be happier
I’m not surprised. Our food culture is shocking. Going into a local stall I have to walk around for ages to get food that’s not been ultra processed!
The main problem is industrial farming, the soil has been depleted. All the studies of vegetables shows that they lack the nutrients essential to optimal health, hence the need for supplements.
We have a few farms near us and the farmers usually swap the food they grow each year. One was muck spreading before Christmas the smell was horrible I had to keep my windows shut. I have noticed they were planting a lot of rapeseed fields I hate them because I can hardly breathe when all the yellow flowers are in bloom 😷
Rapeseed growing is, I think, restricted in some areas as it’s a known irritant but this maybe old information. Here in East Anglia the skies used to be yellow from the rape fields in the summer months but not these days
So the animals living off the land and bred for us to eat will be mineral deficient too i presume.. Supplemental vitamins are the only answer for us then but aren’t these made from plants grown in the depleted soils as well or are they synthetic?
A large number of vitamins are manufactured using things like bacteria and a fermentation process. For example, that is how B12 is made.
But many animals have supplementation of things like selenium and B12 in the course of their rearing. Exactly what they get depends on what they are believed to need.
As pensioners, we spend a ton of cash on supplements to keep us out of the hands of our GP surgery! I've been called in for an MOT but don't plan to make an appt as when my husband had his MOT he got a printout after nurse phoned with results and mentioned hardly any of the tests undertaken! 'within range' or 'no action' was the mantra - but it's only due to our supplement regime of beetroot extract+olive leaf extract (for high blood pressure), vit C, D/K2, magnesium, zinc, selenium (Brazil nuts), fish oils, quercitin that have kept us out of their clutches and my having private Endo for my T4/T3 combo! Plenty of meat also vital at our age, using pressure cooker/slow cooker for cheaper cuts+air fryer for fish and crispy jacket potatoes! Mind you,when I was at school we were taught in cookery class how to cook+bake from scratch+I passed those skills on to my son+daughter (tho my husband never caught on 😅). The only fast food available when I was growing up in the 50s was a meat+potato pie!!
One of the big problems with nutrition is that it is not taught well enough at schools. I was fortunate in that I did O level Domestic Science and O level Biology which between them covered both digestion and nutrition so I knew what constituted a good, balanced diet before I left school. That was not the case for everyone even back then (and it certainly isn’t now) though most of my generation had at least one parent who prepared daily meals and so could pass on cookery skills at home even if they didn’t have the same level of understanding when it came to good sources of vitamins, minerals etc. Nutrition should be a compulsory subject at school, as should cookery.
On this nutrition theme. Did anyone see the Royal Institute Christmas Lecture last night 3rd and last one this year. Dr Van Toleken presenting. Showed the young audience what the food industry put in our food . Had a guest make stawberry ice cream with heavy cream, strawberries and sugar. food industry icecream - nothing recognizable. just chemicals, no nutrients yukk. I hope the message got across to the young people
Watch on BBC I Player
Strange that there is no mention in the paper of the fact that fruits and vegetables (non organic) and other so called food products are now almost totally depleted of vitamins and minerals, instead they are full of harmful toxins. Why nothing is written in there about it??
I’m amazed how some health clinicians and similarly highly qualified professionals and pharmacist influencers types dish out advice telling people they don’t know to omit various dietary thing’s without and added warning of adding back the nutritional content either by supplements or another safer source of food … it’s just go dairy free just go gluten free without any prior warning to get tested first or check your own Doctors advice re testing speak to dietitian, who has all relevant information on hand…which seems to land some people having to add back to be tested which is less than ideal.
… Gluten free flours don’t have to be fortified by law as do the gluten alternatives, so various vitamins and minerals especially B vitamins are going to be lower naturally along with fibre as people cut out these sources without adding back. Dairy free isn’t something I know much about but a chunk of nutrition being omitted there once dairy free.
Diets…The reliance on ready meals is less than ideal but it’s quicker and easier for elderly to get … My mum in her 80s won’t even eat good food now as prefers rubbish as probably addicted to the excess of salt and sugar in these foods and the ease of eating as often softer in the mouth… something we are just realising as elderly have teeth mouth swallowing problems more they switch to softer foods so the feel of food starts to be a choice too… my sister and I make her some (better quality and nutritionally) favourite meals to microwave (like for like) but my mum will chuck in salt like going out of fashion and she shouldn’t have too much, 🫣 but it’s a constant battle like you would with a child eating, won’t drink plain water and she’s always had hang ups with food and everything you present nothing seems to be right even back in her 40s nothing ever good enough moaning even when went out for meals … takeaways was only thing not heard her complain about too much 🙄…my mum has all her marbles so to speak and does know what she should and shouldn’t have or do but won’t and doesn’t … it’s just mobility problems with her…she just says let me eat what I like, there’s no reasoning with her at all she’s very overweight not helping her mobility along with prediabetes and kidney heart lung issues … so it’s very difficult. I can see for onlookers it probably looks like we now don’t care or try…we try and still do then getting into arguments on weekly basis on the subject matter. It starts being quality of life v longevity and ultimately her choice unless deemed not mentally fit which she is, just bloody minded… obviously in Alzheimer’s it’s different they forget to eat also in some cases…but generally at some stage you have to honour their wishes eventually, even if you know it’s not best… I mean hospitals don’t give out the best nutritional choices or advice either… my mums last visit 2years ago was dreadful and she let them know it and boy they know exactly the difficulties we have with her.
My mother in law is absolute opposite grateful for everything… but she has much better health anyway although they are the same age.
We had to fight to get my mum the B12 injections for her although genetically all mums side my sister myself her mum and others all had and have B12 deficiency…she had been low years she never interested in getting access to her results (avoidant type) but on few occasions I chirped up when there asking about it and now she actually feels brighter the 6wks after it, so now Drs looking to increase the frequency but I doubt that will be done it was just mentioned to pacify her I’m sure to shut her up as now she feels better with it wants more…she get right bee in her bonnet then doesn’t want to know other times.
Don’t get me started on hospitals having good dietary choices and safe access for gluten free meals for coeliacs, some can only provide basics…my last visit after small gyno op was a flapjack, egg mayo sandwich and an apple - good job I’m ok with gf oats and not vegan and have all my own teeth!🤦🏻♀️
CoeliacMum1
Spot on. My elderly mother is another who will not eat anything healthy - it's a constant battle trying to stop her carers popping to the sweet shop or the delicatessen to buy rubbish when she asks. Drawers full of chocolate bars. There comes a point when one can't fight the battle any longer - she has all sorts of health issues (some of which may be because of the diet), hasn't got a single tooth left because of sugar intake, but has made it to 94, outlived all of her friends, and may outlive some of my generation at this rate. The thing is she is living a long life, but not living a healthy, long life. The extra years beyond average mortality are all unhealthy.
The Zoe podcast youtube.com/watch?v=iRxbxmj... about how to eat in 2025 talked about diets and exclusion diets leaving people without nutrients etc for exactly the reasons that you mentioned.
My 87 year old Mum chose 6 weeks respite care in a luxury care home after breaking her hip and recovering to go home. It was £1700 per week payable in advance. The timing between meal times was dreadful, breakfast sometimes as late as 10 AM then lunch too early at noon. Dinner was soup or a sandwich , fruit and yoghurts not offered and offered at 5PM. It’s a long time between dinner and breakfast if the timing is out and you’re supposed to eat with your meds! Mum refused to complain though and the ironic thing is that she used to be a cook and studied nutritional diets at college.
Awful sorry to hear.
There are several both macro/micro soil nutrient depletions. A lot of the 'real' reasons 'aren't' discussed on a 'google' search! These just happen to mimic what is missing from our diets.
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