Can anyone advise me on a sensible approach to weaning off Armour? I’ve been experimenting with thyroid medication since April with no improvement in symptoms and I am now feeling much worse than before I started on the medication. My body and mind need a break from this torture! I’ll take final bloods in two weeks but now want to plan a sensible tapering off schedule for after that that I can discuss with my doctor.
I am currently taking 1.5 grains - 1 in am and half in pm.
For info, my thyroid bloods have always been low end of normal range but my many symptoms suggested I might be hypothyroid. Seeing a thyroid specialist this year who agreed to experiment. The experiment, whilst useful for ruling out thyroid, has not been successful. Further details are in my Bio.
I’d be grateful for ideas on how to taper?
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WestElf
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Just read your biog. You’ve been through a lot to get to this point.
Your ferritin could be better? We need ferritin to be at a good level for thyroid treatment to work well.
Sorry you’re not getting on with the Armour. You might just need a tweak to the Armour prescription to get to optimum. Going from 75mg Levo to 1.5 grain is a big change for your body, it might’ve been too much or not enough.
I don’t feel confident advising on how to reduce but I started private treatment similar to you, with low in ranges TSH/FT4/FT3, loads of symptoms, couldn’t get treatment in NHS. I’m titrating Armour, it’s taken me 15 months to get up to 1.5 grain, increasing slowly by 1/4 grains. (Definitely a cautious approach taken by my thyroid Dr.) I’m aiming for FT3 to be 70%+. When I feel rubbish I test at 6-8 weeks; when I feel ok I test at 12 weeks. Just had a blip because ferritin got low (46).
Edited: I take my full dose 1.5grain at 7am, didn’t get on with split dose.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience - very helpful. It’s interesting to hear from someone who also had in-range bloods. Did you start straight on Armour? Or try levo first?
I have read different things about how to go from levothyroxine to Armour. Some say to go straight to an equivalent dose, others say to titrate as you go. I just did what my doctor said! But the logic of it did make sense to me. There is less T4 in 1.5 grains of Armour than in 75mcg Levothyroxine, so I was at risk of hypo symptoms if I went in too low… anyway, I am where I am! And I have felt better on Armour than Levo (but still worse than when I started on any thyroid meds). Perhaps as I titrate down I may notice an improvement in symptoms?
At this point I am wondering why on earth I thought it a good idea to experiment with thyroid meds in the first place - so again, thank you for sharing that you also had normal bloods.
There is less T4 in 1.5 grains of Armour than in 75mcg Levothyroxine, so I was at risk of hypo symptoms if I went in too low…
No, that’s not how it works. There’s 57mcg of T4 in 1.5 grains of Armour but there’s also 13.5mcg of T3, the active version of thyroid hormone. The T3 is very roughly 3 times more potent than T4 (it’s not an exact science ), meaning 1.5 grains is kind of equivalent to more than 100mcg levothyroxine. 1 grain is approximately equivalent to 75mcg levothyroxine.
It could be that you actually need more. You say you feel better on Armour. And you’ve not taken it for very long.
However, if you do want to stop, you’re on a low enough dose for it to be reasonably straightforward (especially if you don’t need it and because you haven’t been on it very long).
In theory you could go cold turkey. Absolutely wouldn’t recommend it, but have seen it done. If your own thyroid function is going to recover it could take anywhere between 2 weeks and a couple of months for your TSH to come back up again to prompt your thyroid to make its own thyroid hormone (if it’s capable of doing so). It’s likely you’ll feel quite poorly for most of that time.
The alternative is to lower the dose by a fraction every fortnight or so until you’re down to half a grain and then you can probably come off it.
My apologies I didn’t mean to sound critical, I meant your current symptoms could be too little or too much Armour. Or adjusting to the T3 in Armour. The food/appetite issue sounds awful though, I would be worried about that too.
Have a read of my profile for the long version! I could not get treated by NHS. I do have multi-modular goitre so clearly something was going on with my thyroid. Low in range TSH/T4/T3, v low B12, vitD, iron. Multiple debilitating symptoms. I went on HRT as peri-menopause is in the mix too. I have iron deficiency anaemia. I take sleeping tabs cos my insomnia is chronic and longterm. I sleep longer now I’m on Armour (9.5h last night!).
I started Armour privately in July 2023 on 1/4 grain, increasing by 1/4 grain at a time, as prescribed. V v slowly!
I can describe how an increase feels, there’s an uplift in my fatigue and symptoms, then some weeks later, I’d start to notice some symptoms coming back. Then I’d retest and have an increase. I haven’t yet reached optimum.
It’s taken me three years to really get to grips with iron deficiency anaemia and its impact on thyroid. Your ferritin is not hugely higher than mine and I just had an iron infusion with my ferritin within normal range (46, bottom of range is 30) because it’s impacting my thyroid results. Cannot fault NHS care there!
Sounds to me that you're going too fast to draw any conclusions about whether or not Armour suits you. It can take many months of increasing slowly. Did you jump right in with two grains? That would be bound to upset your system.
However, if you are unmovingly decided to come off it, you should do it by decreasing no more than 1/4 grain every two weeks. Possibly less. But your body won't thank you. Too much experimenting is too much messing about as far as the body is concerned.
Also skim-read your bio and send sympathy. Brief response, pre-work! Have you looked into cortisol at all? ETA I don't think I saw a blood test with all vits? Maybe stopping your vits is a problem - forgive me if I misread in haste!
Thank you for your kindness. I’ve done the saliva cortisol test which was fine. Vitamins are all currently fine. It will be interesting to see my next lot of thyroid blood results and see what they are doing - might be useful to refer back to if I ever decided to try Armour again in the future…
But for now I need to come off Armour and hopefully get back any sort of desire to consume food. I am in a very very bad way with eating and as somebody with teenage children, a husband and a job I just can’t go on like this and with this experiment. It is not fair on any of us.
I am very interested in your experiences, as they are very like my own, including your starting point blood results. I have many times asked myself if I'm doing the right thing. I was finally diagnosed in 2021 and have tried every combo of thyroid meds, but while it has relieved some symptoms, others remain and some new ones have immerged.
Are you saying that you think you weren't, in fact, hypo? And do you have any thoughts about what your symptoms indicate, if not thyroid issues?
I am at a bit of an impasse, myself, and am searching for an improvement re: med type, dose, brand etc or an alternative answer that explains my symptoms and could potentially be treated. Your description of the 'torture' of it all apt.
Hi noquitter, I’m sorry you are struggling too. How old are you if you don’t mind my asking?
I’m not certain if hypothyroid or not, perhaps I am but the medication doesn’t agree with me? Maybe I’ll never know for sure… I find it interesting that lots of my hormones are low, which would suggest some problem with the hypothalamus. And that I do carry antibodies (not thyroid ones but the lupus/RA ones)… so maybe that’s related? I’ve also been reading about b vitamin toxicity lately and seriously wondering if that might be a factor (so many neurological symptoms).
But in my gut I do wonder if it’s all just perimenopause related. And the tiny doses of estrogen in current HRT products are just never going to touch the sides of what my body needs.
It looks like we are both confused/struggling, sadly.
I'm 69 - a lot older than you, I think, but I have been unwell for a long time. I sought help, but the NHS ie GP and endo, were (looking back) very unhelpful. If I had a pound for every time I was offered anti depressants I'd be rich, but I was never depressed, just physically ill. I had all the symptoms of hypo, plus a huge female family history of thyroid problems. My blood results at the start were very close to yours, the TSH, which had been rising for years was around 4.0.
I was diagnosed privately in the end and have been attempting to sort out the dose/ brand/ type of meds that will suit, plus improving B12, vitD, folate etc. and trying out gluten free diet (which didn't make any difference). Hence my frustration. I AM improved, but not yet completely well, so my dilemma is what to do next to move things forward. At my age ie more than 10 years past menopause, HRT is not really an option as too many risks, and few benefits.
Having been slim, very fit and healthy all my life, and even at 60 I was doing pretty well, the 'crash' has been hard to take.
I wish you well. Fingers crossed we both work it out. Onwards and upwards.
I wish you well too : ) And glad to hear you are improved, just not ideal yet.
It is very hard when medics try to blame everything on anxiety/depression. I found it particularly hard because I also have suffered from anxiety, but trying to explain that my physical symptoms are not always connected to anxiety is generally not understood by the profession. They seem to find it hard to understand that anxiety can be a symptom in the same way a physical symptom can be and that anxiety is not necessarily causing the physical symptoms but is occurring at the same time as them. I was offered antidepressants many times before finally giving in in 2019. I took them for two years and all they did was make me not care about my many symptoms which all persisted during that time.
Anyway, it does sound like you are hypothyroid with having the family history especially. I don’t have a family history of it which makes me even more inclined to think it is not the diagnosis.
I am glad to have been given the chance to try thyroid medication this year as for about 18 months prior I was so frustrated wondering if it would help but not being allowed to do it. I’ve also tried gluten free which did nothing for me. For me this is all a very slow process of trying things out, and being able to rule something out, whilst disappointing not to have found the answer, is also helpful in narrowing the options.
As you say, hopefully onwards and upwards for us both - sending you lots of good energy : )
Just to add that I have no way of knowing 100% if I have a thyroid problem - other than the fact that the symptoms + family history + blood tests (to an extent) would indicate that. And I chose to ignore two NHS endos and take the advice of 2 other doctors, because the NHS were offering nothing and hinting that it was a bit psychosomatic, which was infuriating. It may be that we both have a thyroid problem, or one of us or neither of us. Personally, I'm not 'improved' enough to call it.
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Armour
Update - how I fared stopping Armour 
Armour Thyroid
Update for those interested :)
Consultant wants me off ALL thyroid medication!
