joint pain

[BlueKeith]

suffering from a lot of joint pain especially in my left knee. Think it may be thyroid related. Anybody else experiencing this and if so can you recommend treatment?

[Jaydee1507 Administrator]

Perhaps we can check if you're taking the right amount of Levo for you. Sometimes symptoms can result if we need a change in thyroid hormones.

Do you have a copy of your latest blood results that you can share with us? You are legally entitled to a printed copy of your results, ask at GP reception. In England you can get the NHS app and ask for permission to see your blood results on that by asking at GP’s reception.

When hypo we get low stomach acid which means we cannot absorb vitamins well from our food, regardless of a great diet. For thyroid hormone to work well we need OPTIMAL levels of vitamins.

Have you recently or could you ask your GP to test levels of ferritin, folate, B12 & D3? Private tests are available, see link for companies offering private blood tests & discount codes, some offer a blood draw service at an extra cost. thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...

There is also a new company offering walk in& mail order blood tests in London, Kent, Sussex & Surrey areas. Check to see if there is a blood test company near you. onedaytests.com/products/ul...

Only do private tests on a Monday or Tuesday to avoid postal delays.

It's ideal if you can always get the same brand of levo at every prescription. You can do this by getting GP to write the brand you prefer in the first line of the prescription. Many people find that different brands are not interchangeable.

Always take Levo on an empty stomach an hour away from food or caffeine containing drinks & other meds. Many people find taking it at bedtime works well for them.

Do you know if you had positive thyroid antibodies? Many with autoimmune thyroid disease aka Hashimoto's benefit from a gluten free diet. A smaller percentage of those also need to remove dairy from their diet to feel well. These are intolerances and will not show up on any blood test.

Do you do tests as per the protocol recommended here? Recommended blood test protocol: Test at 9am (or as close as possible), fasting, last levo dose 24hrs before the blood draw & no biotin containing supplements for 3-7 days (Biotin can interfere with thyroid blood results as it is used in the testing process).

Testing like this gives consistency in your results and will show stable blood levels of hormone and highest TSH which varies throughout the day. Taking Levo/T3 just prior to blood draw can show a falsely elevated result and your GP/Endo might change your dose incorrectly as a result.

[BlueKeith in reply to Jaydee1507]

Got test results on my app. tsh 0.83 . Levothyroxine is 125 mcg a day. All other symptoms have gone to be fair and probably feeling best I ever have done apart from my joints . Thanks for all the info.

[BlueKeith in reply to BlueKeith]

Going to try the no gluten approach. Got a feeling it could be that as causes inflammation. Thanks jaydee

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to BlueKeith]

So GP has only tested TSH which is completely inadequate. For a full picture of our thyroid health we need to see TSH, FT4 & FT3.

Essential to raise low vitamin levels for our thyroid hormone to work well.

Suggest you buy a private test.

[BlueKeith in reply to Jaydee1507]

They didn’t test for ft4 this time but 2023 it was 8.7pmol within range.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to BlueKeith]

They didn’t test for ft4 this time but 2023 it was 8.7pmol

What was the range

Was test early morning, ideally before 9am and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Get FULL private testing at least annually if you have symptoms

NHS rarely tests more than TSH ….totally inadequate

what vitamin supplements are you taking

When were vitamin levels last tested

Recommended that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins

Post all about what time of day to test

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Testing options and includes money off codes for private testing

thyroiduk.org/testing/

Medichecks Thyroid plus BOTH TPO and TG antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes BOTH TPO and TG antibodies, cortisol and vitamins

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

Medichecks and BH also offer private blood draw at clinic near you, or private nurse to your own home…..for an extra fee

Only do private testing early Monday or Tuesday morning.

Tips on how to do DIY finger prick test

support.medichecks.com/hc/e...

Monitor My Health (NHS private test service) offer thyroid and vitamin testing, plus cholesterol and HBA1C for £65

(Doesn’t include thyroid antibodies)

monitormyhealth.org.uk/full...

10% off code here

thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...

Just TSH, Ft4 and Ft3 test - £32

monitormyhealth.org.uk/thyr...

10% off code here

thyroiduk.org/testing/priva...

Link about thyroid blood tests

thyroiduk.org/testing/thyro...

Symptoms of hypothyroidism

thyroiduk.org/signs-and-sym...

Randox FULL thyroid test including both thyroid antibodies just £29

Test at home or in clinic

randoxhealth.com/en-GB/at-h...

Vitamin tests £69 - in clinic only blood draw

randoxhealth.com/en-GB/in-c...

Clinic locations

randoxhealth.com/en-GB/heal...

[Lulu2607]

Yes, BlueKeith I've experienced knee issues off and on. If you Google 'thyroid and arthritis' or something similar you will see there's a lot of evidence for a link between the two conditions. It's fairly well documented. Apart from knees my other joints seem OK.

[BlueKeith in reply to Lulu2607]

Thanks lulu

[Buddy195 Administrator]

As a first step, I would test for FT3 and FT4 alongside TSH, to provide a complete picture of your thyroid health. This would then allow you to determine if optimising thyroid symptoms may aid joint symptoms.

[greygoose]

Have you had your vit D tested lately? Low vit d can cause joint pain.

[BlueKeith in reply to greygoose]

No . I’ve just started taking cod liver oil . I take it October to march every year. Worth checking though. Thanks

[buddy99]

Joint pain can have quite a few causes, but in connection with autoimmune thyroiditis I have found information that made sense to me. Autoimmune conditions always cause systemic inflammation to various degrees. That means that not just a specific organ is affected by the autoimmunity (in this case the thyroid) but the whole body. For some no other parts of the body show symptoms of the inflammation and for others there are symptoms all over the place. And then there is everything in between. So that could be one explanation.

Another cause for joint pain with AIT is hypothyroidism. Since, unfortunately, only the TSH was checked, there is no knowing whether the FT4 and FT3 are optimal. It's worth finding out.

Less than optimal vitamin D, I believe, was mentioned. That would be worth checking. But, as far as I know, low iron can also cause joint and muscle pain because not enough oxygen is being delivered. The same goes for B12. I mention these three, because people with AIT often seem to be deficient in vitamins D and B12 as well as iron. None of this may apply to you, but it would be good to check it out, if nothing else to exclude it as a cause of your joint pain.

There might be a bit of detective work ahead for you to get to the bottom of this. I hope your doctor is cooperative in ordering all the tests needed and tenacious enough to get to the root of your pain. And, of course, there are so many knowledgeable and experienced people here for you to come back and "brainstorm" if you are stuck and don't see results. All the best.

[BlueKeith in reply to buddy99]

Thanks buddy. Yes I tend to find solutions to my issues on this site much easier than my GP .

[Leonella]

I have the same problem and my physiotherapist recommended to use ice on my knees. It’s been 10 days and the ice improved my condition.

[Judithdalston]

2+ decades of hypothyroidism and 1 decade fibromyalgia, but 40+ decades pain/ stiffness in spine, later knees…I am of the opinion low thyroid hormones can at least aggravate it/ them, so you need FT4 and FT3 tested alongside TSH, and yes low mins/ vits like vit D and ferritin don’t help! My Gp recently reduced my levo.from 100 to 75 mcg ( fortunately have private T3 5x3 mcg daily) and fibro came back after 2 weeks in, and still there a bit 5 weeks after replacing the 100 dose…FT4 had halve to 29%.

[BlueKeith in reply to Judithdalston]

Thanks Judith . How’s the t3 going . Feel much different?

[Judithdalston in reply to BlueKeith]

yes..even with the very first tiny, 2.5 mcg dose T3 I felt ‘instant’ hangs, like the beer that reached places other beers never reached!

[FoggyThinker]

Yes, I feel you're pain (pun kind of intended but it's no joke is it?) Thyroid hormone and vitamin/mineral levels seem likely culprits, maybe cortisol, but also hearing that gut health is linked, potentially. I'm reading Dr William Davis' Supergut, but no idea if this is reliable info! The trouble is that all these are interlinked so it would be hard to gardening which is at the root.