Another unhelpful article!

[dolphin5]

Have people seen this article? There are so many doctors out there working against thyroid patients!!! My TSH was suppressed even when I was under-medicated (with below range FT3)!!!

medscape.com/viewarticle/99...

[jimh111]

Will need to read the full study sometime, it's behind a paywall.

The summary says there is a link between low TSH and cognitive problems. Perhaps because people are given more thyroid hormone to overcome cognitive impairment caused by hypothyroidism.

[dolphin5 in reply to jimh111]

They are suggesting that low tsh is linked to cognitive problems, with no hint that there may be good reason for having a low tsh eg when you take Liothyronine.

I already find that every time I see either a GP that I don’t usually see, or a hospital doctor who isn’t an endocrinologist, they tell me I’m over-medicated. My life is an ongoing fight with doctors not responsible for my thyroid treatment, even though I’m not over medicated and I’m not hyperthyroid. It’s very frustrating and stressful!!!

[1tuppence in reply to jimh111]

I didn't see any reference to this "over treatment" referring to hypothyroid people, simply hyperthyroid people with low TSH. Did they bother to check the levels of T3? No mention of either T4 nor T3.

[jimh111 in reply to 1tuppence]

I'm only guessing that if patients still have cognitive problems they will try a slightly higher dose and this could lead to a link between a lower TSH and cognitive impairment.

[1tuppence in reply to jimh111]

Without testing of both T4 and T3 how can they possibly claim TSH is the correct marker for anything?

[jimh111 in reply to 1tuppence]

It shows a correlation. The next, important, step is to find out why it correlates. It could be because patients with cognitive problems aee given more hormone in the hope it works (it might). It could be that they have higher fT3 or fT4 and this is harming cognitive function. It could be a reflection of reduced pituitary function. Will need to see full paper as an initial step.

[1tuppence in reply to jimh111]

Thank you. I shall be interested to hear your thoughts when/if you do.

[humanbean]

This article has been discussed fairly recently on this thread :

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu......

Surprise, surprise - it wasn't popular.

[dolphin5]

ooooops, sorry, I missed that! Thanks for pointing it out.

[Charlie-Farley]

Hi   dolphin5

You are totally right 😱🙄😬

In the outline of the paper there is no mention of T4 and T3 levels, no mention of any other medication the individuals might be taking. No mention of poly-pharmacy as a contributing factor there are papers a plenty out there that have found it does more harm than good.

nia.nih.gov/news/dangers-po...

“During the follow-up period, 7.2% (4779) patients received a new cognitive disorder diagnosis, which was dementia in 77% of cases.”

How many were on statins? Blood pressure tablets? etc. and goodness knows what else and were these even factored into study???

I have heard of so many instances of people who are hypothyroid having been put on statins (and experiencing symptoms from them). So many medications are being given as prophylactics. Thresholds dropped to encompass more and more of the population.

And let’s not forget…..

So many studies on thyroid issues are rendered useless from the start anyway by virtue of the fact they don’t sample or discuss thyroid hormones…….. You couldn’t make it up. 🙄😱 Terrible science.

[1tuppence in reply to Charlie-Farley]

Well said. Totally agree.

I also find the assertion that stopping replacement thyroid hormone in those over 65 to be "good practice" completely abhorrent. I can only think those who promote this view have NO experience of the many adverse experiences when under replaced, never mind complete non-replacement. These "researchers" need to be careful with what they assert/promote.

[Charlie-Farley in reply to 1tuppence]

Complete non replacement could lead to anything from slow inexorable physical and cognitive decline right through to death - these idiots get well paid to do what is laughingly called research. The whole reason we go onto thyroid hormone replacement is because we have symptoms and are struggling. I thought I was going to die (literally) when my doctor left me on 25ug of Levothyroxine for 6 months and I thought I was bad enough before starting. I know my antibodies are still active and my thyroid is still being attacked. If I were to come off Levothyroxine now I would feel even worse than before. This sort of research is all about the numbers in test results and ‘stuff all’ to do with well being. They get so hooked up on getting certain parameters within range and ignore symptoms and thyroid hormones. 😱

[TSH110 in reply to 1tuppence]

That’d be a death sentence for me - these people are preaching eugenics - yet it’s ok to make us work till we’re 66 and it could be as high as 75 in the future.

[Charlie-Farley in reply to TSH110]

On point 😞

[Yostie]

Look at the funding sources and conflicts of interest section...if they did a study on eye colour and hypo wonder what the significance factor would be. More tosh to be assigned to file 13! Gather the good stuff and arm yourself with it for those discussions withe medical profession.

[northsix]

😡

[arTistapple]

I watched a video by the Thyroid Trust with Professor Simon Pearce some time ago. He just loves this kind of drivel. He emphasises at every opportunity that many people don’t need thyroid hormones, have been wrongly prescribed and is a fan of removing prescribed hormones.

I think he is a great judge. Whatever he likes/promotes I can be sure is damaging to hypothyroid patients, so I can be sure if he likes it, it’s wrong.

[TSH110 in reply to arTistapple]

Dr Death

[arTistapple]

Must add here. I am not a fan of ‘cascade prescribing’ (a phrase learned here on the forum). However I am certainly a fan of another forumite’s succinct observation. “We want clinicians to work with us. We don’t want medic number crunchers”. We don’t want medics who want to be seen as at the forefront of allegedly saving the NHS money”. I put Pearce et al at the forefront of this quackery.

[FoggyThinker in reply to arTistapple]

I've often wondered how much money the NHS could save if they researched, diagnosed and treated OPTIMALLY thyroid problems. Not even considering quality of life etc for us, and productivity, etc etc. The impact must be enormous.

[arTistapple in reply to FoggyThinker]

I do too FoggyThinker. There is a piece of research that scratches the surface of this. I am pretty sure it will be ‘pinned’. If I recall it’s University of Dundee. It looks at the effects of hypothyroidism in the workplace, usually womens’ stories. Some of us took part in it. However as with all things research (it seems to me) it ends up asking more questions than it answers. I hope someone somewhere is doing research to answer those questions - very similar to the ones you put in your answer to my comments. Endocrinology seems very self satisfied with its ‘answers’ from the very little out of date research it seems to follow. There are a few like Dr. Peter Taylor or Dr. Salman Razvi (not forgetting most importantly diogenes ) who are doing or at least looking at the medical research but as for looking at or researching the very important issue you raise re: saving cash - properly, there does not seem to be much. At least not that I can find! So much hinges on ‘will’ and frankly the guys who could do something about are sitting on their laurels.

[tattybogle in reply to arTistapple]

arTistapple FoggyThinker This post links to the research you mentioned : healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... people-s-experience-with-thyroid-disease-survey-results

( earlier post : healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... /people-s-experience-with-thyroid-disease-survey

[arTistapple in reply to tattybogle]

Excellent work tattybogle! Thank you.

[TSH110 in reply to FoggyThinker]

Very good point the likes of Pearce are what’s costing us all a fortune - wasting untold amounts nhs money on a plethora of unnecessary medications, tests , investigations, staff time, nhs equipment etc rather than treating the root problem thereby wrecking countless lives with medical negligence

[holyshedballs]

seems like another study concentrating on TSH not T3 or T4, and saying that low TSH is overtreating. Plus its a meta study based on patient records so not sufficient account of direct experience with the patient.

And it doesn't take in to account patient preference, many of whom would rather feel good now and manage any potential side effects with other methods.

[TSH110 in reply to holyshedballs]

a garbage in garbage out paper