lactose intolerance and vaginal oestrogen containing lactose monohydrate 🤷🏽‍♀️

[Regenallotment]

hi there,

Sorry not strictly thyroid related but I trust you symptom sharing lot so I hope you don’t mind. Having sorted my thyroid replacement I can now see I have some perimenopausal symptoms.

The Menopause specialist at GP is reluctant to prescribe Lenzetto & Urtogestan until I have the all clear from the NHS Genetics Unit via the Breast Cancer Team as there is a BRCA 2 query after looking at my ancestry DNA and grandmother with bowel and breast cancer in her 90s.

While I wait she’s prescribed Vagirux tablets to be inserted vaginally. But I’m lactose intolerant with a dairy allergy. Tiny quantities set me off. I can’t take Accord Levo etc.

A menopause forum I scanned suggested I’ll have abdominal discomfort from these, just wondering if anyone else has this. PIL says avoid with fibroids etc. I’m thinking this is a bad idea.

Any thoughts? 🌱

[TiggerMe Ambassador]

You certainly seem to have a good team at your surgery!

I've tried researching vagilux and can't find anything useful but it certainly doesn't sound ideal adding lactose monohydrate to any part of your body if you are sensitive😕

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

I don't really understand the issue with replacing a little estrogen when levels drop as you are still looking to keep them below the levels you have been ticking over on for years?

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

I’m not allowed cyclical HRT until the BC risk has been established. I’m not sure of that timeline so looking at alternatives while I wait x

[Delgor]

I agree with Eeyore as I wouldn't knowingly put something into my body that could cause you discomfort in any way or upset you with being lactose intolerant. I did have bc 30 years ago and wasn't allowed anything, although I believe that has changed now, but if you can get through the menopause as naturally as possible it can only be a good thing - perhaps investigate herbs😓

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Delgor]

Hi love, so many questions for you, if you have time. Any recommendations on herbs? Sarah Myhill’s website had a long listBlack Cohosh, Red Clover, Agnus Castus, Wild Yam but another Google suggested it’s all unregulated untested so I’m a bit 🤷🏽‍♀️, Shirley my hairdresser said evening primrose, my sister sage tea any interactions with Levo/Lio? Dr Myhill site also mentions we get less good at making melatonin DHEA and D-Ribose and CoQ10 has anyone looked at this in relation to thyroid and perimenopause?

[Delgor in reply to Regenallotment]

Oh dear I really can't advise you on herbs as of course we are all different and as usual it's trial and error to find out what suits us as individuals. I went to see a homeopathist having also been diagnosed with CFS all around the same time and I do remember being prescribed CoQ10 and having Evening Primrose Oil but there were other things as well.

So sorry - hope others can advise you better!

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Delgor]

Thanks so much x

[grumpyold in reply to Regenallotment]

I have Hashi's and was perimenopausal at 37. It was all over by the age of 43. I really didn't want to go down the HRT route. I used black cohosh, agnus castus and wild yam and sailed through it. I know everyone is different of course, but I can personally recommend those.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to grumpyold]

It seems a lot of it comes down the the state of our adrenal glands and whether they are capable of taking on the sex hormone production which seems a big variable amongst us and the menopausal journey we have 🙃

[WitchingHour2point0 in reply to grumpyold]

I reckon I've been in peri since I was 35 - 38 now. My question though is now you're post menopausal how are you caring for your bone health?

My biggest fear is getting frail as I age and, at the moment, I'm starting HRT as a protective measure.* If there is an alternative I'd love to hear how you've done it.

*6 months ago, I was on my knees and desperate for symptom relief though. Symptoms have massively decreased in the last 2 months.

[grumpyold in reply to WitchingHour2point0]

I'm 67 now and no bone problems so far, that I'm aware of, though if I were to have a scan, it might reveal otherwise.

Weight bearing exercise (walking etc) is recommended, light weights though I must confess I haven't used any for years.

I don't feel frail....a lot fitter than some people much younger than me.

Glad that you are feeling better than you did. Long may it continue 🤞.

[Spangle15 in reply to WitchingHour2point0]

I’m on HRT for that very reason. I was diagnosed with low bone density aged 41. I started Peru roughly the same time although didn’t realise it until I started HRT aged 46 and loads of my symptoms went. I also do weight bearing exercise - a mix of body resistance ( squats, lunges, press ups,plank mainly) , barre and some low impact cardio. I take vitamin D and k2, magnesium and calcium but the calcium is because I don’t absorb it well from diet. I’ve now introduced collagen too because some studies show it can increase bone density.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to grumpyold]

Thanks! How much and when? Might be my only option.

[grumpyold in reply to Regenallotment]

Oh golly, I'm afraid I don't remember how much. I took them 30 years ago. When ?....I would have followed the recommendations on the bottle/packet. Amount would probably be a bit of trial and error to find what suits you. Good luck...x

[Christabel in reply to Regenallotment]

The herbalist Baldwins offers a fifteen minute online consultation with a qualified medical herbalist for £5.00, if you wanted to find out a bit more. Less in-depth but a lot less expensive than a full-length consultation with a herbalist, and a good starting point perhaps.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Christabel]

Great idea, love baldwins used them a lot for a business in a previous life 🤗 thank you x

[RedApple]

I'm by no means an expert in these things, but as this is a transdermally applied form of oestrogen, I'd say the lactose is unlikely to affect you. Lactose delivered transdermally is not the same as via the digestive system. The dose of oestrogen is very low, and millions of women use this form successfully. So if the lactose is your only concern, maybe give it a trial. Any negative symptoms are more likely to be from introducing exogenous oestrogen, rather than from the lactose.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to RedApple]

Thanks for the reassurance, I’ve survived the night without issue fingers crossed 🥳

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to RedApple]

Urgh nope abdominal/pelvic pains and terrible wind now. I’ll have to go back to her.

[RedApple in reply to Regenallotment]

Oh no, so sorry to hear this. Do keep in mind that it just might be the oestrogen (not the lactose) causing your symptoms. Lots of people suffer a variety of symptoms when first introducing oestrogen. Hives type red rashes on the back are very common for example. Symptoms can sometimes subside once the body becomes accustomed to the hormone being delivered exogenously.

Remember that this is another hormone, so getting it right can be as tricky as introducing thyroid hormones is for some people.

Whatever the cause, I hope you can find something that works without side effects.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to RedApple]

Oh what a numpty! Well the symptoms can’t be the Vagirux because the tablet was still in the applicator when I went to try again tonight. It had survived my attempt to insert, a soapy wash and a rinse 🤦🏽‍♀️ I’ve tried again 🙏🌱

[RedApple in reply to Regenallotment]

😊 If at first you don't succeed...

[Angel_of_the_North in reply to Regenallotment]

What about Vagifem instead? I don't think that has lactose

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Yeah it said that online I’ll ask thanks 🌱

[RedApple in reply to Angel_of_the_North]

Vagifem does contain lactose. I suspect these pessaries may all be the same thing, just under different brand names. novo-pi.com/vagifem.pdf

Vagifem ingredients

[Knackeredandcross]

There are other vaginal estrogen a you could use if the vagirux is an issue. Ovestin estriol cream can be used but you would need to check the ingredients or you could use an estring which has no fillers at all and so should be a safe bet

[Torquaygirl]

It will be a tiny amount of lactose as it’s going direct. There are other gels and moisturisers you try I don’t remember names but breast care nurse can advise either hospital or breast cancer now helpline or forum.

Just as a sideline do you have any other dryness? Ie mouth or eyes? I have Sjogrens it flared /started up when I had breast cancer pills. It’s take nearly 10 yrs to be diagnosed and now it looks like I have developed thyroid problems. It’s very common to get more autoimmune disorders. A blood test can diagnose if you do. Good luck.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Torquaygirl]

Yes very dry eyes! Specsavers chap I saw after the drops they gave me that are supposed to be amazing reacted awfully said the inside of my eyelids look like cobblestones 😕 On his instructions I now have to do a warmed wheat bag for 5 mins at bedtime which is very relaxing and makes my vision very blurry as it releases the oils in my eyelids. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[Torquaygirl in reply to Regenallotment]

I am still trying to get my eyes sorted after 10 yrs but an appointment at ophthalmology on Tuesday. Here’s the link to the Sjogrens website , have a look and I suggest a conversation with yr GP to get bloods done you been ENA, ANA and CRP levels. They sometimes do a few more.

bssa.uk.net/information.asp

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Torquaygirl]

Thanks so much I’ll look at what you suggested. Does it have to be eyes and mouth? I am quite salivary 🤷🏽‍♀️

[Torquaygirl in reply to Regenallotment]

Dry eyes and mouth. I still have some saliva but it’s very thick and I am having terrible trouble with my teeth

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Torquaygirl]

I’m so sorry to hear this, teeth going is a big deal. I hope you can find ways to reduce the impacts. My teeth are tip top, I think I’m very lucky, they are wonky and naturally on the yellow side but dentist says that makes them strong. I did have some gum health issues but interdental cleaning seems to have fixed that. So possibly not Sjögrens or not yet then. If I notice more I’ll ask the GP to investigate. Thanks for sharing it’s so valuable to compare symptoms 🌱

[KBird01]

There is a new alternative to vagirux, which is called Blissel. This is a gel, rather than a pessary and I've read that lots of women have had a good response to this. It's also a different type of oestrogen and a much lower dose. Please let me know if not allowed, but in addition to the forum on here, there is another excellent forum called menopause matters with some amazing advice. Also Dr Newsom's Balance app. Theyre a lot more sensible than the usual Facebook bunfight too!

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to KBird01]

Thanks so much, I’ll try menopause matters, the forum format seems to suit me. I’ve tried the balance app a few times but my poor dyslexic brain can’t figure out how to use it. I just see boxes and pictures and other peoples questions with no responses and a load of scroll scroll scroll through stuff that doesn’t really get to the questions I have. My GP surgery Menopause specialist trains at the same training as Louise Newsome and she thinks she’s prescribing very high levels of oestrogen 3x what the body would make naturally and highly risky. That’s put me off a bit 😕 I’ll ask her about Blissel, that sounds good. Much appreciated 🌱

[WitchingHour2point0 in reply to Regenallotment]

Just keep in mind that the MM forum is MUCH quieter than this one...! 😂

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to WitchingHour2point0]

It really is, I found myself answering other people’s questions 🤣

[KBird01]

Yes, I agree with both your points about Dr Newsham and the app. I can say from personal experience that more is not always better. Good luck! 😊

[Mazes]

I’ve not the energy to check if this has been mentioned before, sorry.

I use Ovestin as a cream and these are the ingredients - hope this might be helpful.

What Ovestin contains

The active substance of Ovestin cream is estriol. 1 gram of Ovestin cream contains 1 mg of estriol.

The other ingredients are octyldodecanol, cetyl palmitate, glycerol, cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, polysorbate 60, sorbitan stearate, lactic acid, chlorhexidine dihydrochloride, sodium hydroxide and purified water.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Mazes]

Thanks that is helpful, do you use Ovestin internally?

[Mazes in reply to Regenallotment]

I do. It’s a cream with an applicator. My doctor wanted to prescribe a pessary but as I’ve had reactions to others in the past, was happy to go with the cream.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Mazes]

Ah sounds good thanks for the tip 🌱

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Mazes]

Thanks you Ovestin seems to be doing the trick, Another GP switched my prescription. Definitely a reaction to lactose in the tablet types. 🌱

[Mazes in reply to Regenallotment]

that’s great, glad I could help 😀

[Singwell]

This is for topical HRT? I take Oestradial 10mcg vaginal pesseries and don't have any issues. You might consider that diary intolerance won't manifest topically if that's any help. See what others say.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Singwell]

Unfortunately it has I think. this morning I’m in quite a bit of pelvic pain with horrific wind. I’ll seek advice on it.

[Singwell in reply to Regenallotment]

So sorry to hear this. No-one can predict an individual's response to pharmacological products can they? Hope you get this sorted.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Singwell]

I feel like a right daftie, found the tablet still in the applicator. Hubby’s breakfast was what set me off apparently as the Vagirux was soapy washed and rinsed and still there 🫣 have tried again 🤣

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Regenallotment]

🤣🤣🤣 is this what they mean by blind testing 😁... that'll teach you not to pinch your husbands breakfast!

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

****ing Zoe recipe again, 🤭 turtle beans 🫘 can go in the compost. Had to take him for a walk in the next village in the afternoon as he was trumping like a steam train too 🫣🌱

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Regenallotment]

I've never even heard of turtle beans 🤭

All beans are lethal 💨💨

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to TiggerMe]

Oh no I’ve got that wrong it was Black Eyed Peas (not the Will I Am band - I love them), possibly not cooked enough in the slow cooker. He was unsupervised 😬

Turtle beans are less problematic, little black beans people make chocolate brownies from them. They are nice in shakshuka breakfast… 🥴

[Hidden in reply to Regenallotment]

Hi Regenallotment

On the subject of cooking beans: are you cooking dried beans?

If so, and to prevent wind/gas, they need to be soaked three times with fresh water for each soaking 12-24hrs prior to cooking.

Read that hint years ago and do that whenever cooking dried peas and beans.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

Yes we soak overnight, but yes you have a point I’ll try that and report back 🤗🌱

[Singwell in reply to Regenallotment]

Laughing also because I've done this myself. Fired the applicator but nothing came out!

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Singwell]

Funny 🤣 glad it’s not me

[Hidden]

On the point of the topic,  Regenallotment , have a family member who boiled flax seeds/linseeds for a hair gel and just using this gel on her hair -not even directly on her skin, she ended up with heavier bleeding and also bleeding extra days on her cycle.

Turns out, linseeds are heavy in oestrogen.

So, if you have problems with lactose, I wouldn't think it wise to have it anywhere near your body -or hair!

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

Oh wow really! I eat Sarah Myhill’s linseed bread recipe daily. Hmmm will have to look into this more. Thanks 🙏

[Hidden in reply to Regenallotment]

Yes, definitely, Regenallotment Linseeds/flaxseeds are similar to soya beans and their effects. Glad to pass on the lived experience if it can help.

[Regenallotment Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

Very interesting, thanks so much for this info. 🌱