I went through a really rough time a couple of years after I had my first child when I was about 31 years old. I had never experienced PMT prior to the birth. I was lucky. However, I became aware of gradual fatigue, and anxiety, and hot flushes. I went to my GP to ask if I could be going through the menopause. He said I was too young, and put all my symptoms down to mental health!Cut a very long story short, about 7 years later, following an oopherectomy and psychiatric ward stay, and the birth of my second child, in that order, I insisted that I was tested for menopause via a gynaecologist. A proper test. By this time I had been on HRT for several years, so had to come off it for 3 months to have an accurate result. Yes, I was menopausal. I wasn't menstruating. I was right.
My GP subsequently apologised for not believing me. He said I was the only patient he had knowledge of who had a premature menopause. He was about 50 years old at that time.
I am writing this because the same thing happened when I wasn't improving on levothyroxine regardless of increasing doses, until I was adequately medicated. I became increasingly worse. Regardless of many, many visits to my GP, he couldn't help. He had decided I was a nutter and a pain in the neck. I was too much trouble. According to my results, I should be OK! So, in his opinion I was having mental health issues!
I was already on antidepressants, and had been for many years. He told me to stop taking them, and then after two weeks, he would prescribe a different one! I always thought you had to wean off them gradually, or titrate with a new one.
I tried as he said, but within 4 days, I was climbing the walls. I couldn't do it that way.
I went back on them. He wouldn't titrate.
I feel that, as a woman, you have to attend the doctors regularly throughout your life, especially during pregnancy, unlike a man. I think we are judged before we are listened to.
I'm sorry to moan, but I have had a lot of experience of inept doctors.
Has any other woman had similar problems?
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DandyButch
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I think the majority of women can put their hands up to that.
I've written about some of my experiences on my profile, but that just covers the thyroid aspect. I've not mentioned my experiences with doctors during pregnanices, births, and sick children.
I mention having taken iodine in my profile. I went to the doctor with my ex husband for moral support. But, he and the doctor got on like a house on fire and completely ignored me! He asked my ex if I was neurotic. My ex said yes. And they both had a good laugh. And I was just sitting there like a lemon! And the upshot was, he prescribed iodine, for some unknown reason, which just made me worse. I didn't bother going back to him, just chucked the iodine out.
When I had the back op for a slipped disc I didn't have, I was in terrible agony after the op, but the surgeon had gone off on a joly with a bunch of old age pensioners, so I didn't see a doctor between then and my discharge. And all the nurses did was tell me I 'shouldn't be in that much pain'! Without doing anything about it. If it were these days, I would sue for negligence. But, if it were these days, I wouldn't have the op in the first place. These experiences have changed me.
I grew up believing that doctors were right. However since my experience re: menopause I have become wary. We know our own bodies, but the doctors try to dismiss any symptoms by suggesting they are in your head.I have also lost complete faith in hospitals. In my experience, and particularly that of my mother, most of the staff just don't seem to care any more. They seem to be very detached from their duties, except when relatives are visiting. I witnessed it frequently, in several different hospitals locally. They neglected the patients. The ones that seemed to care were the assistants, when they were there.
We are living in the 21st century, I think, but I am disgusted with the way the nhs is now.
The experiences certainly have changed you greygoose . I can categorically state, having read your comments here for several years now, that you are in no way a lemon or any kind of shrinking violet anymore. And that's a very good thing, that has helped many people on here. And then you made the joker an ex. Good move.
I absolutely agree about, "No pain no gain" ...with the insinuation that pain is a necessary part of improvement....rubbish!!
But I do think that if one has suffered/ experienced a situation through no fault of their own and managed to cope and get through what ever challenge arose then it helps prove we are stronger than we thought and can then cope better in the future.
That's dreadful and I bet they've changed you. Funny how many men like to be seen to be 'one of the boys', immaterial of... what is being said/going on!?
Must be age, greygoose, [us, thankfully, seeing this more critically!], but that's pretty much how many of them seem to behave. Maybe we didn't notice it quite so much when younger [saw it but made allowances??], NOT NOW! 😁 xox
There’s an excellent podcast 28ish days later about the menstrual cycle, and there’s a particular episode that highlights how badly over the centuries women have been treated by the medical profession. Medications were never tested on women as we were seen as too “changeable” to give a reliable test result! I think part of the reason conditions like ME/CFS have never been seen as a priority for research is because it predominantly affects women. I’m so sorry to hear of your poor experiences and sadly I do believe that you are right. Whilst things may be changing, there is still much to be done.
Thank you for your input. After I posted my rant, I hoped that others had or would be experiencing the same brick wall. When you have anxiety, you want/need doctors/nurses to listen and act. I know it's in my head, but what is causing it?
I have real horror stories. I received a lot of casual medical abuse as a young, fairly ignorant of what I know now woman. My thyroid issues were completely dismissed, despite me going to the doctors many times with a plethora of symptoms, including saying I felt like I was being strangled by something in my throat. My throat apparently became my brain, because this was dismissed as being 'overly worried and anxious'. "Get out more, make more friends" was the advice. My falling grey hair was dismissed as 'well afro hair doesn't grow as well in the European climate' 😄😢 this was a private so-called trichologist, who later on I realised must have been a complete charlatan, as not one blood test was done.
My experience of maternity ward care was simply it was cruel. No food except tea after giving birth because 'I had birthed in the early hours and missed the dinner rota' nurses talking at the desk all night, they actually had the radio on ALL NIGHT. Lights left on. 6 women to a room, babies crying all night, no rest at all. First baby, I was placed next to a woman who had had 3 caesareans, and this poor woman moaned and cried all night with the pain, especially if she breast fed. She was refused the breast milk from the breast milk bank as her baby wasn't premature! I couldn't understand that, or why she hadn't been given a room of her own, and some of the other women complained about 'her noise!' the nurse told me it was because she wouldn't pay for one and then said, 'well it's her own fault because she keeps on having babies when she's been advised to stop.' Yet the one of the private rooms was empty and was still empty the 2nd day.
There was more and for years I cried over my birthing experience, and how it was ruined yet despite this, I was refused an at home birth the second time.
Judging by my mother's stories, it was better on the 70s. But I remember feeling very gaslighted as I looked at all the thank you cards on the maternity desks.
Women's healthcare is terrible at every stage and full of misogyny. So many women working in it but nothing much changes.
The hospital wasn't a nice place to give birth. There was an overemphasis on breastfeeding but no support. My first ended up being ill for his first year because of trouble feeding leading to jaundice and then a blood disorder. Thankfully, number 2 was born at home with known and trusted local midwives.
So sad that so many of us have experiences like this, yet are still ‘gaslighted’ into thanking the staff and leaving them chocolates and cards. When I had my daughter in 1990 the staff , on handing over to the next shift, always said I was a ‘lovely lady’ - I realised much later on that this was nurse speak for ‘she won’t give you any trouble’. I had a couple of bad experiences with the nursing assistant, the first one refused to help me get up out of bed a few hours after my caesarian op, reluctantly offering me her arm even though I had no feeling and could not get my body to move. The second one gave me a lecture about not changing my baby on the bed, even though I told her that the poo on the sheet was because baby pooed whenever I breastfed her - she ripped the sheet off the bed and ranted as if I had deliberately made her do extra work. Fancy having to change a bedsheet when working in a hospital ward, oh the horror!
That's dreadful Tanglewooddream, I bet you couldn't wait to go home! Unfortunately I saw stuff like that happen myself. Women with caesareans were treated like a bother. I myself wasn't helped to use the bathroom with a vaginal tear and stitches and a catheter in, or washed in the bed despite asking. You'd think intimate hygiene would be a priority. I'm not sure it's got better for women during or post birth. It's disgraceful and it can ruin what should be a precious experience (whenever possible). It is simply an extension of women being seen as overly dramatic and demanding.
It’s disappointing that all these experiences resonate with each of us.
I am a woman but I dont think it’s my gender that’s the main factor - I thinks it’s people who know their bodies and voice their observations and that tends to be women.
We laugh now but I can recount 7 times when I nearly died because medics didn’t listen - I nearly lost my son too and we both ended up in intensive care.
My hubby was always one who listened to the medics - and even though I encouraged him to ask questions was reluctant to do so. He was always warmly welcomed by them as a good patient.
However recently when I encouraged him to question the GP about his low B12/Lansoprazole/heart health and insist on a referral for a second opinion he has for the first time experienced GPs as we all do.
No red carpet now as he has dared to question … and rightly so it seems! But the GP is not being proactive in prescribing the new meds or vitamin D. Dragging their heals.
They do not like being asked questions - it’s a consultation after all, NOT a discussion!!
I think you hit the nail on the head. In the past (and now?) doctors had such high status - no-one questioned them. As you say - it's a consultation, not a conversation between two equals seeking progress/resolution with regards to a health issue. I have tried it every way - meek and cooperative; assertive and confident; charming and helpful; angry and resentful; knowledgeable and armed with facts/studies. Doctors just don't seem to be able to have a normal 2 way conversation with their patients. Perhaps they should start their training serving tea and toast to patients and emptying bedpans. Or maybe being good at passing loads of exams doesn't mean you'll be any good at an actual job?
Couldn't agree more. You notice the attitude is often better with nurses, who aren't necessarily less clever, just chosen a different path or not as academic and do the grunt work. I agree doctors should start doing menial tasks as part of their training. In fact a nurse saved my exes life by reading his psa results properly and a nurse during a hernia operation first questioned my thyroid status.
Nurses, I have found to be wonderful and very knowledgeable. The sooner we get away from thinking that academic ability equals intelligence, the better. It takes a whole lot more than a good memory and a clutch of A levels to treat a sick human being. Personality and motivation need to be scrutinised. Nurses tend to have knowledge, plus intuition, kindness, understanding, people skills etc etc, all crucial when dealing with illness.
Hello Wwwdot,Thankyou for your thoughts . The trouble with this is when I have raised a complaint, I just get the usual "Lessons will be learnt", but it is so shallow and nothing is learnt!
I don't tend to complain about my own treatment, but I had to, on behalf of my mother, because she was paralysed, several times each at several different local hospitals. Each time she was back in hospital the exact same problems occurred.
I became aware that a lot of nurses are now bank staff. They leave the NHS and become bank staff and earn more money. But, they have no need to be good at their jobs, because they will be on a different ward or hospital the next day. I also believe that 12 hour shifts are not conducive to optimum care. They get tired and make avoidable mistakes, and are short fused.
Bring back ward matrons who actually were in charge of their wards, and were held accountable.
Totally agree with you. I have many complaints that one would think are black and white (ie not telling a patient of a 18cm mass detected 6 months ago, forgetting to make an urgent cancer referral so that it was delayed by 8 weeks, prescribing the wrong antibiotic, mis-diagnosing an e-coli infection...) . All have been the subject of a complaint but guess what - each time the toast lands jam side up for the medics and I am labelled a trouble maker.
But it won't stop me complaining and trying to be proactive with my healthcare and that of my family! I think we are all in the same boat for whatever reason.
I had to reply to this post. Yes, I've had many a run-in with GP's, and also with hospital consultants. And as I get older, it gets worse. First memory age 16, a GP diagnosing hay fever instead of glandular fever, and prescribing anti-histamines; later a damaged elbow diagnosed as tennis elbow; a nerve condition diagnosed as scabies; hypothyroidism symptoms put down to 'depression' and 'anxiety'; accused of exaggerating pain when going into early labour and offered paracetamol (THAT helped!) - and many more.
My husband has never been offered anti depressants - his health concerns have never been put down to 'depression', and he has always been taken at his word and seriously.
You would think that having more women doctors would help, but it doesn't seem to. These days I open a 'consultation' with - 'I'm not depressed, deluded, attention seeking or confused and I have a decent IQ, and yes, I have consulted Dr Google', and go from there.
I have met many a female Dr that didn't listen and have offered anti depressants. Come on, what happened to the sisterhood?I have come away thinking that it will be good when they hit perimenopause because they might actually listen.
Perhaps they should do a survey, not asking the questions in a way that the answers will be good for them, but asking difficult questions to get honest and open responses.But, it is all about box ticking, not by improving the service. It has, I think, got worse over the years.
I hear what you're saying re: survey. But first Nhs doctors, at least, have to realise that they are public servants - tax payer subsidised training and tax payers pay salaries. And that ridiculous hierarchy in hospitals where the consultant is God (often a part time God) and the patient just an inconvenience he encounters as he sweeps through a ward/clinic with a retinue of minions in his wake. The mindset has to radically change.
I agree. The management must listen to the workers as well, because they know what is needed to improve the purpose of the NHS, National Health Service. Management are too concerned about paperwork and statistics.
You bet! Absolutely crucial to let ALL staff have an input. Not these layers and layers of 'management' ie people who have a smashing job title and go to lots of meetings and talk a lot - but nurses, cleaners, physios, porters etc etc. who, along with us patients, no-one bothers to ask. Oh, matron! (as Kenneth Williams would say)
I think also, privatising hospital cleaning and patient transport has been a big mistake. The workers do not seem to have any enthusiasm or pride in their jobs and are all probably on minimum wage which naturally affects moral and quality of work.
I so agree with that. It's interesting how we are told we have to pay huge salaries to get 'the best people' at the top, but everyone else is supposed to have a vocation and work for peanuts - and still be enthusiastic even when they have to use food banks to feed their kids.
Yes, but the lower paid employees are damned by society, particularly better off people, for needing to claim benefits to help keep a roof over their heads, and food on the table. That in itself makes you feel shamed.
Der !!!!!!!!
Some, patronising people, usually higher earners, say benefits claimants should get better paid jobs!!!!
Where are these better paid jobs for unskilled people.
Also if no-one did the low paid jobs, where would society be. No dustman, no cleaners, no childminders, no shop assistants etc etc.
I am fed up with the better off in society, criticising the lower paid in society, when the low wages are encouraged by fat cats.
Very welcome to do so. These days I aim to get respect - at the very least. Often that's all I get, of course. But I don't leave the appointment in tears - not any more.
My brother advised me, years ago, to try to see a woman doctor. When he saw my raised eyebrow he said "they try harder". Translate that into "they listen to women" and he probably has a point. Anyone had experience of this gender bias?
I definitely can relate..this is the very reason my health has deteriorated over the past 7 years ….Doctors male and female just don’t care to listen and make you feel like a hypochondriac.
I think it has been recognized by now that women have in the past gotten and still get to this day the short end of the medical stick. It is a medical tradition to dismiss women and to attribute physical issues to mental health problems. Advocating for yourself, as a woman, just confirms to the physician that you are hysterical, depressed, irrational or have any number of mental issues. It does not matter that much whether we see a male or a female doctor. They both have the same education and operate on the same confirmation bias. And it can even be a self fulfilling thing when, as a female patient, you keep running against walls and get anxious and/or depressed by the mere futility of your efforts. Although, in all fairness, I'd say that a male patient who asks too many questions or contradicts (real or perceived) a doctor will also meet with an unpleasant reaction. A really good book on the subject is "Doing harm : the truth about how bad medicine and lazy science leave women dismissed, misdiagnosed, and sick" by Maya Dusenbery. Changes, if any, will be slow in coming. This is why, I am convinced, it is so very important to have a community like this one that has your back, gives you advice and support and makes you feel that you are not alone. Alone we are vulnerable. Together we are strong(er). I just wish I could take a whole bunch of you with me when next I have to see a doctor. I think that would be quite the experience for both, the doctor and the patient.
Gosh! what a point you have made - to have regular GP appointments throughout life. Well, I was so healthy in my younger days that I couldn't have done that but now I have such a lot of issues that I'm scared to make an appointment. Even a double appointment wouldn't be enough time. They don't like it when you present them with more than one issue at a time. I'm thinking of finding a holistic doctor but no way am I wealthy, and that is holding me back. Also, if we alll did that, how would that help us to hold on to our health service here in the UK?
When you have multiple symtoms, it is supposed to be the doctor who diagnoses whether they are separate issues or all related. Unfortunately most doctors only deal with one symptom at a time, and prescribe the required treatment. By the time you have finished reporting all symptoms, you are more ill due to all the medications. Been there, done that.They seem unable to be detectives and join the dots.
They don't like it when you present them with more than one issue at a time.
This is one of the things that modern doctors do that I find absolutely astonishing.
Suppose someone has a persistent headache. The number of medical conditions that have headache as a symptom must be in the hundreds if not thousands. Fixing it may be as simple as drinking a couple of glasses of water a day to relieve dehydration headaches or as complicated as finding a brain tumour and removing it. So how can a doctor tell that someone has a simple problem or a complicated problem if he won't listen to other symptoms?
The profession has always dismissed women, but now they are probably dismissing everyone, irrespective of age, medical history, gender, and symptoms. And yet despite being absolutely awful at their jobs, in many cases, they continue to act as arrogant, conceited and pompous as they always have.
I'm wondering whether if you have two conditions that produce the same symptom - say fatigue - do we get a double dose of fatigue? I bet they couldn't even answer that simple question.
No, of course not. They would probably say that you should get back to work because it is all in the mind. Mind over matter. And if you get out more, you will feel better, which also suggests it's self inflicted.Ha!
We had to have IVF to conceive after a very sad miscarriage of twins. I was over the moon when I found out I was pregnant and then absolutely terrified as I suddenly realised that the pain I had been feeling for a while in my throat was not a sore throat but pain in my thyroid. My husband was very supportive and we rushed to see a private gp as I was terrified it could impact the pregnancy. The gp (female) dismissed me as basically hypochondriac and said that at maximum I had a slightly inflamed lymph node, nothing to worry about. I kept on feeling unwell, with stronger and stronger pain in my thyroid so my husband took me to urgent care in hospital. By that point my heart rate had already started to be over 100. We saw a lovely female doctor who again said I had nothing to worry about and that if I went to see a doctor everytime I had a new pain during pregnancy I’ll never stop. I still was not convinced and all I wanted was to protect the baby so tried again with a private visit to a ear-throat-nose specialist as if it wasn’t my thyroid I thought worth checking my throat.. He actually agreed that it could be my thyroid and the ultrasound scan showed I was having de-Quervain thyroiditis. The same night of my diagnosis I developed a high fever and was really unwell so we had a trip to A&E. They were really nice but suggested that we return the next day as very busy and my temperature not high enough. Luckily before sending us home, they decided to check my pulse. It was over 145 at rest, so all of a sudden they wanted me to stay. The nurse repeated the ECG multiple times as the results were so bad. I suddenly became a priority and was moved to an emergency room on my own. The doctor came to see me and I sad to him it’s my thyroid!!! I have never given so much blood in my life for all the tests they decided to run. At 5 in the morning he came back saying that none of the incredibly extensive blood tests they had run explained my heart rate, very high CRP and fever so would I mind giving more blood so that they could also check tsh, t4 etc??? I couldn’t believe they hadn’t done them even after I told them everything including my increasingly painful thyroid. Of course it was my thyroid but the first specialists I saw in hospital weren’t actually sure on how to treat my by now out of control hyper symptoms without impacting the pregnancy. I had to have an argument with one of them who was insistent on a medicine I had just checked should not be given in pregnancy. I joined the forum at a time I could not even get out of bed without my heart rate spiralling, got good advice , managed to eventually see a very good endocrinologist in hospital and despite a very difficult start I am now holding my 4 month old baby. I didn’t notice any difference between male and female doctors, but there was definetely a common tendency on dismissing my symptoms as pregnancy hypochondria. Funny enough had I not been pregnant, I don’t think I would have been so loud in saying it was my thyroid and not stopping until it was addressed. I have really learnt to trust myself and not be silenced.
I fully sympathise with the dismissal of your concerns. I nearly lost my son and myself in my first pregnancy- never felt so desperate as no one would listen for months. Kept telling me I was an over anxious first time mum.
Well that over anxious first time mum was right and I had a brain haemorrhage and ended up in intensive care unit. My son too only just made it. I didn’t see him until he was 5 days old. My husband still has nightmares about it. I don’t know what it is about not being willing to listen. It’s not difficult.
So glad you have a beautiful babe! Enjoy !!! So precious!
Of course it was your thyroid! I'm surprised they didn't check that out at the time as it's quite common to have some sort of problem. They were always checking mine out in those days.
yes - it is heartbreaking- and many women doctors fall into gaslighting patients too.
I just try to tell anyone that will listen Doctors ? Well they don’t know much as you think, in fact less than in the past.
Indoctrinated and cultish and fed do-da by NICE and big Pharma. Many have lost the skill (for the most part) to interpret symptoms, instead relying on blood tests they don’t understand. Treating symptoms not seeking the cause. Ignorant of the true importance of nutrition- the keystone to health.
Big Pharma do the research on their own medicine, then when they get presentable results they give NICE the pitch for a contract and If it’s not too exhorbitant they get the contract.
Doctors are told to prescribe and that’s just what they do.
They are all taught the same old ‘tut’ and this creates a robust echo chamber.
So if you challenge you come up against -
“We, the medical profession, all know ‘this’ so if we all know ‘this’ it must be true as we can’t all be wrong.”
I also went through premature menopause in my very early 30s. Approximately, 10 yrs after my last period, I went to a new gynecologist. I informed her that I was post menopausal. A few weeks later, I got a bill for an unauthorized pregnancy test. Yes, I agree, too many doctors don’t listen to/believe female patients. Note, after getting the bill, I called the doctor’s office, read them the riot act, and refused to pay for the invasion of privacy, completely unnecessary, pregnancy test. The worst part of the entire experience was how violated I felt and that I didn’t get the care that I needed. Unfortunately, good doctors are rare.
I think our intuition is the best guide, whether it is something "off" in our own health or in someone close to us. "Why have you called an ambulance?" "blood sugar very low. "No it's not; it's up to 5" "Well, it's only recently risen in that case and 5 is not good." Took my partner to hospital anyway and guess what? He's there for the week while they sort him out. A short while later and he's back in again with a painful neck, high blood sugar and extremely abusive behaviour. I suspect a UTI as well but the crew said "No, he hasn't got a UTI" Well, we'll see, won't we?
The number of times I've woken in the night to find him having a hypo and sorted him out myself, and yet now I also seem to know when sorting him out myself is not something I can do.
Incidentally, I got told off for not following protocol and ringing the surgery instead of 999. My partner actually wanted me to take him to the surgery to get an ambulance, but at the same time, he wanted to go to the hospital in an ambulance which would be more comfortable than my bone shaker. No way was I going to drive him 4 miles in the bone shaker only to have to sit around uncomfortably in the surgery waiting for an ambulance when we could do that at home. I trust my intuition 👻👻 any day.
I know from caring for my mother before she passed, as soon as she had a UTI, of which she had lots, because she became another person and then hallucinating. My, that was weird the first time it happened.However, every time she ended up in hospital they put on her notes that she had dementia!!!!! She never had dementia, even to the day she died.
Thankyou, thankyou. I care for my partner with little help from anyone else. (He has carers but they only do what they've been told and learn how to make tea). I have been researching dementia because the personality change in my 82 year old partner is scary. It started immediately after our return from holiday last winter, when they said He has high blood sugar, keto acidosis, high blood pressure, a UTI and incidentally - covid. I did find out that the UTI was probably the cause of his angry outbursts. Then he wasadmitted again a few months later - terrible abuse so that I did not want to visit him. And again and again. If UTI is the problem, I can't understand why it is recurring and how I am supposed to live like this. In his case, they always say he does not have dementia, so my story is the opposite of yours, but they do not educate us any further. It really pisses me off.
I have experience of dementia too. My mother-in-law has it. The trouble is, the doctors would always speak directly to her. Often, she would say there's nothing wrong. Correcting her made her angry and she would make myself or my husband look stupid. The doctors had no means of flagging up the fact that their patient had dementia. Big issue.Also we had to take her to hospital for an operation. The hospital rang my husband to go and fetch her, (his mum)
But when he got there she was nowhere to be found, but most of her things were still there.
She had gone home.
Also, when she had to go in for an xray, she had to go in by herself, due to rules. I tried to explain she had dementia, but was basically ignored. She kept coming out of the changing rooms fully clothed. She couldn't understand that she had to put the robe on. I spoke to the xray front desk about it and said something should be flagged on their records when someone has dementia.
They seem to go into a sort of "Me no understand" mode. One of my partner's daughters is a well qualified nurse. I have tried to get her to notice her father's strangeness on the rare occasions she has visited but I can't get anywhere. Now she says she can't interfere in our relationship - that I have to do what's best for me. WTF.
From what I've understood today, if he does have dementia it must be in the early stages, but earlier this year they did a brain scan and said it was "clear" whatever that means. Apparently a UTI can cause someone to clench their jaw so tightly that they break their teeth, which seems to be what has happened and he awaits a dental appointment. The point of this is to indicate the rage that he was demonstrating at the time. I'm open to either of these diagnoses but in between these horrible incidents, he can be as normal and pleasant as a blind and deaf man can be, though the deafness does seem to be to do with his brain rather than his ears. He was supposed to be phoning the surgery to demand an urgent appointment with a hearing specialist but he didn't get on with it and then this happened - on Tuesday.
Apply for power of attorney, if you can, because once he has a diagnosis it is too late to apply. He has to be 'In sound mind 'to sign the documents. It gives you the power to act on his behalf, when he becomes unable to. I have had experience on both sides. Otherwise someone else could do it, unawares to you, and use it against you. I know how manipulative people can be where money/valuables are concerned.
Gosh I just read your reply again. I didn't realise that a diagnosis would make a PoA too late. May be in the later stages it would be too late. It's a conversation we would have to have while he is of sound mind. I suppose we could have reciprocal ones.
The law doesn't allow POAs when diagnosed not of sound mind. Be careful. Also, once someone has obtained one, even illegally, like my husband's sister, there is nothing you can do. She was able to put her mother in a care home hundreds of miles away, and did not give permission for my husband and his brother to visit her. She had the POA. She wouldn't even tell them where she was for a year. She sold her house. By the time my daughter went to see her (her granddaughter), she didn't even know who she was. Dreadful.
That is so sad. Presumably your sister in law put her mother in a care home close to where she lived, which would be something, but what a manipulative way of getting an advantage. However, she would need to have sold the house in order to pay for the care home. But how awful for your husband to go through all of that, and for your daughter, who probably saw her grandmother frequently. It just goes to show how cruel some family members can be. And why?
What a dreadful abuse of POA. My husband experienced similar with his brother secretly obtained POA and then sold the family home and essentially engineered the early demise of the parents. That’s the elevator pitch the actual story is worthy of a horror film!
There was absolutely nothing we could do even the Office of the Public Guardian were powerless as they need evidence but the holder of the POA holds all the power - including the evidence.
A preventative approach is to have early open conversations with all family members- which in our case did not happen as the parents did not want that conversation.
It’s sad we are having these discussions about money above love.
I know, but I had faith in the morals and values of the family as a whole. It never occurred to me that a family member would or could be so manipulative and underhand for their own selfish reasons. My husband and his brother tried also to challenge the POA, but, as you said, the system only supports the person with the POA. The system is truly flawed.
Yes, we trusted family too, we allowed and respected differences of opinion, but also thought the base values would help us navigate collectively - it’s frightening how different people cut from the same cloth can be.
By contrast my nephew who has learning difficulties has given his mum and me LPA and registered with the courts and the hospital won’t recognise it despite giving them access code to view the LPA via Gov website. A week later I can still not get through to the Office of the Public Guardian to complain so having to work round it. Not easy when you are 200 miles away. The whole system is an illusion - I rang safeguarding team at the hospital and it’s not in their remit!!! Same for local authority. Only people who listened was the Qualiry Care Commission. So exhausting.
Must be absolutely awful for you. 200 miles is a massive distance.My husband asked me recently to phone the care home where his mother is to find out how she was doing. They told me they would ring me back. When they did ring back, my sister-in-law had denied access to me for any information.
Oh yes - becoming a different person and hallucinating. Many blind people experience Charles Bonner syndrome where they often think they are going mad because the hallucinations are so very real, but before he starts to "go crazy", my partner seems to suffer from the more ordinary hallucinations as well, particularly after he has fallen asleep in his chair and wakes up from a dream. Then he continues to act out what he's dreaming. Last Monday he shushed me because he was dreaming he was in church!
He often has a catheter when he goes into hospital, the first time being after the holiday last winter. While we were asleep he had gone into a coma and I had woken up in the morning to find him unresponsive. So - well, actually I was told he had a UTI upon arrival, but he also had Covid on arrival. Anyway, it is my own experience that long term use of a catheter is not helpful.
I am used to seeing him having hallucinations and he will often tell me that he has an annoying old lady walking next to him. I tell him that's me!
Oh bless. I bet that makes you feel all sorts of emotions consecutively. I know how it can completely change their personality. It is very difficult to cope with.My heart goes out to you.
He belongs to a Blind Veterans Choir and a lot of the members have the same thing, as it's very common (Charles Bonner syndrome). Sighted people can get it too but rarely. So I am used to the two types of hallucinations. What is hard to take is the scenario that takes place after "Did you put ANY salt in these potatoes/spaghetti?" That seems to be the start, and then a few hours later, when an ambulance crew is ready to take him to hospital he starts accusing me of all sorts of things. On Tuesday when I brought him the "wrong bag" for the hospital, with the "wrong socks" and things he "didn't need" he started throwing things around the room, which is totally out of character. He wants them to believe that I am stupid (does the mansplaining thing as well), and says he wishes I'd move out. During all this time, of course, I'm not permitted to speak. If he thinks I'm not within earshot (though in a small house, that's nearly impossible) he will tell all sorts of lies about me. I find that upsetting.
I bet. It's a wicked illness. Especially for the family or people close to the person.It must be helpful to know other blind people have it too. Remember, you are not alone.
Are there any charities or carers centres you belong to. Good ones will be helpful to you. Funnily enough, when my mum was ill (she was 80 at the beginning), I was recommended to contact AgeUK for help for her.
Perhaps I got the worst person at AgeUk. He was unhelpful and quite rude. I didn't contact them again.
I don't think I made it clear. Blindness doesn't make people behave like that. My partner is a type 1 diabetic and I am coming to believe it is all due to high blood sugar. It's similar when it's low but once it reaches a certain level, he becomes unconscious. The council have been in touch quite a bit recently and I am hoping to get some counselling. He gets carers three times a week for 30 minutes. They observe what goes on sometimes but they can't really get involved, although they have sometimes told him not to be so unkind to "Momma".
My experience of being on a ward with elderly ladies on it a few years ago - a ward in which I was the only middle aged / young one - was that doctors and nurses (really nurses, because doctors weren’t around long enough to be asked / to notice) did not allow any of them to walk around. At all. Not even to go to the loo. There were two women with mild dementia on the ward and they kept asking to get out of bed and stretch their legs / go to the loo and were not allowed to, and not even supported to stand. Factor in the number of days they were kept in .. and you can imagine how much their muscles deteriorated during these days, because at home / in their care homes they were still able to walk around.
Having seen what I saw there, being an elderly woman in hospital is far, far worse than being a middle aged one. You are treated as mentally incompetent, whatever you say or ask for. I ended up running errands for lots of them - buying prunes and dried apricots in the shop for the one who wanted to avoid an enema but wasn’t given any when she asked the hospital, chasing the discharge papers for one of the elderly ladies who was told she was going home but then half a day passed with nothing happening and she was fobbed off, charging and fixing phones / putting in calls to a daughter… the list went on. Worse, I saw so much hostility from nurses towards them.
One nurse said to the lovely 80 something yr old woman in front of me - who was longing to go home and who only came into hospital under assurances she would be able not to stay the night, and whose family were not allowed on the ward (just post Covid) - as she started a new shift “are you going to be nice to me today? Because if you’re not I’ll tell the other nurses not to let you go home”. As soon as she said that I said “you can’t speak like that to patients”… evidently she thought she could.
Yes my partner has had about four episodes of being in hospital - the first time for four weeks. During those four weeks they did not allow him to leave the bed. He had already lost more than three stone in intensive care. Consequently he lost much of his muscle power. Now he insists on being able to walk around. They didn't give him enough to eat so he never put the weight back on. Patients die in hospital - not because they are ready for death but because they are allowed to deteriorate. It's frightening. At the hospital we attend, the hospital staff are lovely. So we are lucky in that respect, but I don't imagine they have time to feed a patient who can't feed themselves.
I have great experience of this with my mother. She had to have a neck operation to save her life. Unfortunately she was the 1 in 100 who had nerve damage and was mostly paralysed from the neck down.
I could write a set of encyclopedias of my mother's inadequate and sometimes malicious healthcare whilst in hospital.
She had a bedpan thrown at her during a night shift.
I had to visit every day to make sure that she had her hearing aids put in, her glasses on, her hydrant water bottle cleaned. Her feet were not cleaned at all during a 6 week stay in hospital.
One day she hadn't even been given a drink until I turned up at 4pm, even though she was right next to the nurses
Station without any doors between. She had an alarm to call the nurses, which she couldn't press, her water bottle hose was on the floor. Mum said she had been calling the nurses all day, but they ignored her.
Another time, another patient rang their buzzer for mum. She was told off for being an advocate.
One time they said my mum had said she was OK!!!! She didn't have her hearing aids in so couldn't hear them to answer them.
Her food was put on her table. She couldn't feed herself. The catering staff would remove the tray uneaten, because no-one would feed her.
I could go on....
I was alarmed and terrified at the lack of care and dignity my mother had to tolerate, by the ones you expect to care.
Yes - if the patient is asleep when they come round to ask menu choices for the next day, they get nothing. If the patient is asleep when the food is provided, they take it away when the time comes round, regardless of the fact that food is part of the much needed treatment.
All I can add to that is....My mum hated the hospital food. She called it dry, drab and tasteless.
I went in every day with different foods from home. Also she never had a hot cup of coffee from the hospital. Always cold by the time, sometimes , she was offered some. She didn't like it when it was cold. I took a flask of hot coffee for her each day.
It depends on the hospital. The one he was in in December didn't cook their own food but the hospital he normally goes to apparently does good food. Also, when one is sick, sometimes the food can have no taste, when really it's the tastebuds are not working. As to food and drinks being cold - some patients will get a hot meal but they don't seem to load the trolleys sensibly. The servers have to go from bay to bay to find patients instead of the food being arranged on the trolley by bay. Would that be so hard to arrange? They often don't have English as their first language and struggle to actually find the right tray on the trolley. All this delays the food to the point where I have gone to visit, only to be told he is having a hypo. It's absolutely ridiculous.
I had the chance to taste mum's hospital food here and there. It was bland. They don't cook in any of the hospitals around here, it's all contracted out.The nurses love to give their professional opinion on what the patient is suffering from. Sometimes though they get it completely wrong. Or what has or is going to happen to the patient and when. There is no accurate communication.
My mother was waiting over 6 weeks after her operation, for a 12 week course, which is fixed, for rehabilitation.
She was bed ridden all this time.
Naturally she was very weak by the time she got to rehab. After a month or so , some nurses tried to get mum to stand with the help of some machine. She told them she couldn't do it but was coerced into it.
She had a fall from the machine.
They didn't tell me, my mum did. Over the next day or so, she was black and blue all down one side.
Naturally, they played it down as one of those things. This put mum back again. She had been progressing with a different machine prior to the fall.
However as soon as the twelve weeks was up, she was out. Older people take longer to rehabilitate than youngsters generally. Had she had longer, she would have improved more.
They continued with mum's rehab in the community....
I had to arrange transport to get us there and back. When we got there, they didn't have the right equipment to help mum, so a wasted journey, and wasted hope.
This is really awful. I know the NHS has been in a state for some time, but where's the common sense? Where's the communication staff to patient, staff to visitors, staff to staff. One size fits all and if someone's been bedridden for weeks, nursing staff/physios shouldn't need to be told that an elderly person can't do what they might have been able to do six weeks earlier. It just goes to show that we really have to spell it out to them what they should know through their training. And it's not just nurses. Doctors can get it wrong sometimes. When I went for an appointment with my haematologist some weeks after having a bone marrow biopsy, she could tell from my general demeanour, and from questioning me about what I had been told, that her junior colleague had not given me the basic truth. I had in fact been given a biology lecture - not the straightforward news that I had blood cancer. Standards in this country have really slipped, not only in the medical field, either. There are idiots trying to sell us stuff we don't need who can't even speak grammatically and continue to say the same things that don't make sense - "to myself"🙄🙄
She was my mum, I loved her and she had always been there for me. She was the nicest person I've ever known. Even given the last few years of her life were pretty grim for her, she remained humble and said life is good. She was always grateful to anyone who helped her. Everyone on this planet could learn a lesson from her.
I witnessed a huge amount of complacency, and rudeness from the nurses to the elderly patients, not just my mother, which miraculously disappeared when a visitor turned up.Then, they were gushing.
My mum, now 85, went through an early menopause too. It started at about age 39. The docs back then just gave her tablet after tablet (1978ish). One day she said “you are going to kill me with these tablets”. She went cold turkey. I was 13ish and can still remember trying to sit on my mum to stop her shaking. She put herself into the psychiatric hospital nearby. Just walked in one day and refused to leave. The psychiatrist said there was nothing wrong with her as she was reading Shogun and helped a young lady get through the early stages of labour (the docs ignored the pregnant woman) who had mental health issues. He asked my mum how her sex life was……..she later told me she went for him (verbally). She was always good with words, no swearing. He apologised. Apart from hot flushes, her menopause was over before 50
A female doc once told me I could cure my migraines with 3 aspirin, just like her 🤨 This was at the time my TSH was 5, but no one mentioned it. The migraines are part of my life now. I am sure that if my thyroid issues were dealt with sooner my migraines would be less. And I would have not lost months and months of my life in bed because of both conditions. One make doc told me to push through the fatigue, I’d get over it 😶
Like others on here, I could tell more stories. But it’s not good is it? We live in an age of amazing medical knowledge and yet too many suffer with too many issues that could be helped and contained, even fixed if only doctors would listen properly and not fob us off with whatever drug is top of their list at that time.
Take care, and know that sadly, you are not alone in this situation ☺️
Thank you for sharing. Medics totally underestimate the severity of symptoms caused by hormonal imbalances.I know some women don't have menopausal symptoms, or minor ones. Perhaps because of this the medical profession say well if some women sail through it, the ones that don't are exaggerating or overreacting/paranoid.
I was 37. I didn't think I had any menopausal symptoms. I didn't know I was in menopause; I was pregnant! So how could I be? The pregnancy lasted 6 1/2 months and I had time off work but after a breakdown, the management were less than understanding and things lead to me over-reacting to something and walking out. I was suspended, went through an awful time while the union were trying to prove unfair dismissal, but I lost my job and suffered awful "anxiety"(?) problems, mostly shaking for a long time afterwards. Now I look back and realise that not one single person realised what was going on. They kept saying "wait at least 6 months before trying for another baby - you have loads of time." No-one thought to find out what my state of mind was. Ironically, I didn't even have a hot flush until years later when I went on a clinical trial to test an HRT patch. Perhaps those women are paranoid but couldn't that, in itself, be a symptom of menopause in some women?🤒
Hello, you have been through the mill even more than me, by the sounds of it.And, in answer to your last question, whilst many women don't have a bad time going through the menopause, many, many do. But, there is not enough knowledge out there to support those that do experience disruptive symptoms.
As humans, we are often told family history plays a part, sometimes significant part in our own health journey. i. e. Genetics. My mother was in her early 40's when she went through it. I was in my early 30's. But doctors don't like to be told. Often these bits of additional info are treated as irrelevant by GPS.
I was 37. I didn't think I had any menopausal symptoms. I didn't know I was in menopause; I was pregnant! So how could I be? The pregnancy lasted 6 1/2 months and I had time off work but after a breakdown, the management were less than understanding and things lead to me over-reacting to something and walking out. I was suspended, went through an awful time while the union were trying to prove unfair dismissal, but I lost my job and suffered awful "anxiety"(?) problems, mostly shaking for a long time afterwards. Now I look back and realise that not one single person realised what was going on. They kept saying "wait at least 6 months before trying for another baby - you have loads of time." No-one thought to find out what my state of mind was. Ironically, I didn't even have a hot flush until years later when I went on a clinical trial to test an HRT patch. Perhaps those women are paranoid but couldn't that, in itself, be a symptom of menopause in some women?🤒
Quite a shaming thing to say to someone who isn’t.
Some people sail through their GCSEs but people who look like they’re going to fail them aren’t going to don’t need to be told that by their teachers.
As my husband said to me - as we left hospital with our brand new baby, following the total carnage of his delivery (my midwife had been asleep on her feet through the baby’s delivery and scorned me when I told / asked her things, an incorrectly injected epidural was given to me leading to neurological headaches which laid me flat & reliant on morphine yet still being encouraged to breastfeed (which I somehow did), the many hours in active labour when I was actively ignored (and as a result it was not discovered the baby was not in the right position for delivery until nearly too late), no sleep for me for days as woken by all the other babies on the ward and nurses expected the mothers to pick up their babies when they cried even if ((in my case) I couldn’t ).. the list goes on… . as my husband said to me “if men gave birth it wouldn’t be anything like this”.
I’ve had migraines since my teens. Fortunately, they have never been too frequent, meaning I rarely have more than 1 per month and usually, I don’t have more than 3 or 4 per year. When I get migraines, they take over the day, meaning I’m unable to do anything other than stay in bed because my head hurts so badly and 99% of the time my migraines make me throw-up. I keep a couple of prescription promethegan suppositories in my fridge at all times because they are the only thing that can stop the vomiting.
When I gave up gluten, one of the unexpected benefits was that I have fewer migraines. Also, there is some evidence that ppl who suffer from PMS, which I did, and ppl who have migraines might be magnesium deficient. From what I’ve read, bloodwork that shows that your magnesium levels are in the normal range don’t necessarily mean that you aren’t magnesium deficient.
I now take between 300-400 mg of magnesium daily via supplements. I decided to supplement my magnesium because, in addition to hypothyroidism, I also have osteoporosis.
I take magnesium every evening too. My migraines went up 10 levels after my full hysterectomy. I had gone through a huge amount of stress too. In 7 years I worked out I spent approx 6 months in bed (either trying to prevent, having, or getting over migraines). It turned out my Hashimoto’s had been triggered too, but no doc even mentioned my TSH of 5. I have since worked out that low thyroid levels make my migraines more frequent and more severe. Adding some T3 (which I pay for) has helped a lot. I struggle with GF as many alternatives upset my tummy. We all have to work at finding our good and bad ways of functioning. Paracetamol gives me a bad migraine (with sickness), aspirin gives me tummy ache and the migraine will linger longer, ibuprofen just delays the inevitable. I have Imigran. The generic makes me vomit for 7 hrs with a terrible migraine. Let’s hope we both have fewer migraines and decent thyroid levels and can get on like the majority of people (ever the optimist) ☺️
Thank you. They are a lot better since being on thyroid replacement hormones. But I have to be on the ball. (Not going to the ball though as I have to be home by 9pm or I’m too tired next few days 🙃)
My migraines used to be like that, about once a month. I tried various medications, some that worked better than others, but if you didn't catch it early, there was nothing for it but at least a day in bed. They seemed to originate in my neck. I still have some neck stiffness but I haven't had a migraine now for years and I can't explain why they have gone.
My migraines used to be like that, about once a month. I tried various medications, some that worked better than others, but if you didn't catch it early, there was nothing for it but at least a day in bed. They seemed to originate in my neck. I still have some neck stiffness but I haven't had a migraine now for years and I can't explain why they have gone.
Have to stay that all my negative experiences with doctors relate to problems a) relating to periods, when in my early 20s (ie. a problem only affecting the female anatomy) and then b) with almost everything I have had since I had my first child.
When, pre children, I had major issues relating to my bones - this problem of not being believed didn’t crop up. The x rays don’t, in a doctor’s mind’s eye, lie.
Something about specifically female problems, doctors and health care - it doesn’t surprise me at all now that women with endometriosis struggle with these (fairly specific) symptoms for so many years, on average, before getting a positive diagnosis.
as a woman I think we are often not taken seriously with our health but then we are up against some docs that just don't care basically and the knock on effect can be devastating.
It says it all when you are treated differently when chaperoned by husband than alone. this used to happen to me and im saddened , as if my word was not enough but male back up and it was listened to. I now have no male attendee to take, is that why im left like I am 🤨🤔
I have no trust in health service but trust myself, i will no longer have them make me doubt myself because of their failures, I am saddened to have lost my faith in the nhs for many reasons but yes I think as a woman its difficult to be listened to by gp before judged but thats as you say inept doctoring .Any good doc should take every patient visit seriously, they do not and that is devastating for us all, especially women, but all of us, sad times 😡
I haven't lost faith in the NHS. I have lost faith in the medical profession.
If too many people say they have lost faith in the NHS we'll end up with a healthcare system like the USA. I think we are on the way to that already because there are so many things that the NHS won't treat any more.
if too many people are saying it then we are already in trouble , im pretty sure its out of our hands as I don't know anybody that has liked the changes in nhs lately. considering im old enough to have appreciated and trust nhs in past I fear my loss of faith and fear what lies ahead , but people must say ,and sad they have to do so, I think people say as they want the institution back as it was, to help regain, not to damn it.
DandyButch I’m so sorry for the suffering caused to you by what seems to be wilful incompetence, or a sadist.
The cop-out of your (I hope no longer) gp saying, "... I was the only patient he had knowledge of who had a premature menopause. He was about 50 years old at that time." is just unbelievable.
Caveat....we had moved GPS due to moving house about 10 years after the misdiagnosis. Many years after that we bumped into each other in a car park. By that time he had retired. He came up to me and apologised for his mistake, saying that after me, he had another patient with exactly the same symptoms and causes.
Open your minds GPS. Just because you haven't come across it before, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I think this is the most depressing post for a long time, reading all the dreadful experiences, my opinion has changed - it is gender based. Sadly, horrifically, disappointingly.
Sorry to make you feel gloomy, and I realise that not everyone will have experience like mine. However, I wanted to highlight the inadequacies in the entire health service, so those who haven't experienced it, are aware that it exists.Whilst I know there is sexism in the NHS as a patient, there is also ageism. If you are a child or younger person, everyone is sympathetic and wants action. If you are older, it is as if you have expired your use to society and don't deserve proper care, regardless of the fact that they have paid in all their lives.
Hospitals don't have enough staff in wards for the elderly, when they have complex needs. Hence relatives play a crucial role in their wellbeing whilst they are in hospital or, indeed, even in care.
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Why so keen to reduce T3 dosage when feeling better?
Coming off my medication (NDT)
I need a good endo, feeling lost and not taken seriously 
Concerned that my GPs are still not taking my condition seriously, what should I do? 
Where do I begin? 
