this is very worrying. I’m sure I’m suffering from the interaction between cbd patches and levothyroxine that I was totally unaware of.
Knowing that both levothyroxine and CBD oil serve the same purpose, which is treating hypothyroidism, you may wonder if it’s appropriate to use both forms of medication simultaneously. This is where you need to consider potential CBD-drug interactions. CBD oil and levothyroxine compete for metabolism, and they both require the same pathway to metabolize, which is the cytochrome P450.A study in 2017 discovered that if a patient takes both levothyroxine and CBD oil simultaneously, this may result in a case where more thyroxine becomes compiled before the body metabolizes it due to the aforementioned interaction. When this happens, it results in another disease called Hyperthyroidism. Other risks involved with the interaction of levothyroxine and CBD oil involve anxiety and mild nausea.
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if a patient takes both levothyroxine and CBD oil simultaneously,
The advice always given is to take levothyroxine on it's own and keep other medication and supplements at least two hours away.
this may result in a case where more thyroxine becomes compiled before the body metabolizes it due to the aforementioned interaction. When this happens, it results in another disease called Hyperthyroidism.
Well that's not right is it. If a person is taking levothyroxine for an underactive thyroid, there's no way it becomes overactive (hyperthyroid). Hyperthyroid is where the body naturally produces too much thyroid hormone so when one has hypothyroidism the thyroid cannot regenerate and then start producing too much thyroid hormone. What can happen is that a patient with hypothyroidism can become overmedicated but that isn't hyperthyroidism.
I know it won’t cause hyperthyroidism it should be worded as over medicated.
I think this has happened to me while using PATCHES as they’re a continuous slow drip I .
My ft4 has gone over range and in more than 48 years this has never happened. It’s always 14-16(9-19) now it’s over range and I’m feeling very jittery & anxious.
Took the patch off 48 hrs ago. Got my results yesterday afternoon
So you'll know that you are not getting a true FT3 measure as T3 should be split the day before and last part of dose 8-12 hours before test, your FT3 will be showing lower than normal.
What were the actual FT4 and FT3 results/ranges from this test?
I understand what you are saying, you are keeping a consistency but I believe that is giving you consistently lower levels. (And therefore, at this time, not indicating whether you are overmedicated)
You keep changing the time gap and sometimes the result, this is where the confusion lies which is why I haven't commented further.. And I can't see where you've mentioned an FT3 result of 4.53 after 35 hours in your other posts.
when my ft3 is 4.53 after 35 hours it is 5.8 after 23 hrs
I’ve told you that testing after 12 hrs gave me ft3 of 5.8
thre ft3 after 12 hrs is 5.2
150 Levo 15 T3 last dose 8.40am previous day. Test was 8.40 - Ft3 4.51 ( 2.6-5.7) - which is 24 hours
There is a lot more to it than the bare bones outline given to the poster and as SeasideSusie points out the problem seemed to be when the 2 things were taken at the same time.
And reading further, thanks to the link Lalatoot has posted, we can see they say
However, if a patient spaces out the time frame between the use of Levothyroxine and CBD oil, there may be minimal or no effect at all, as found in a couple of patients. Nonetheless, you will need to consult your doctor to establish the right routine for both compounds.
and
While both substances may effectively treat hypothyroidism, you shouldn’t take them simultaneously. If you do this, it may lead to another dysfunction like hyperthyroidism. However, if you space out the usage, the risk of both drugs interacting and becoming counterproductive can be reduced to a bare minimum.
which is exactly as advised - do not take anything with your levothyroxine, leave at least 2 hours between Levo and other meds/supplements. But they have still used the term "hyperthyroidism" which is incorrect.
You are using patches 130396 and this article is talking about using the oil, the oral form.
So you need to be looking for information about whether using patches has any effect. Absorption is totally different. But testing 6-8 weeks after not using the patches will show if that has any effect on lowering your FT4 level.
What was your new FT4 level with this most recent test whilst on the patches?
13/06/23150 Levo 15 T3 last dose 8.40am previous day. Test was 8.40Tsh <0.03 (0.27-4.74)Ft4 20.7 (9-19)Ft3 4.51 ( 2.6-5.7)Was using 15mg cbd patches (2 patches 36hrs prior to test
However I have now read that the Sativa species which is in the patches are stimulating which can cause an anxiety
Knowing that both levothyroxine and CBD oil serve the same purpose, which is treating hypothyroidism, you may wonder if it’s appropriate to use both forms of medication simultaneously.
This makes no sense. Whilst CBD oil may help with some symptoms of hypo - and I know it does because I've taken it - it cannot replace the actual hormone. One is not a substitute for the other. And, it cannot improve thyroid function if you don't have a thyroid, for whatever reason.
Besides, Levo doesn't 'treat' hypothyroidism, in the sense that an aspirin treats a headache. It is a replacement for a hormone that you cannot live without. CBD isn't a hormone.
A study in 2017 discovered that if a patient takes both levothyroxine and CBD oil simultaneously, this may result in a case where more thyroxine becomes compiled before the body metabolizes it due to the aforementioned interaction. When this happens, it results in another disease called Hyperthyroidism.
They are talking about hormone levels in the blood. But, hyperthyroidism isn't just about thyroid hormone in the blood, where it does nothing, it's about how much gets into the cells, causing hyper symptoms. And that cannot be measured.
And talking about the body 'metabolising' thyroid hormone surely means getting it into the cells, does it?
CBD is a versatile therapeutic compound: It modulates the endocannabinoid system (ECS), resulting in the regulation of hormonal activity.
It cannot 'regulate' the hormonal activity of a thyroid that is slowly being destroyed by autoimmune disease. Nor, I imagine, can it with a gland deprived of TSH by a pituitary problem - Secondary Hypo. Any more than an adaptogen can.
It is non-addictive: A study proved that CBD is not habit-forming, unlike the whole cannabis itself. This makes CBD safe for daily consumption.
Levo is safe for daily consumption. And levo isn't addictive...
I'm not going to read any more. This is a very ill-informed article written by someone who knows very little about thyroid, and is potentially confusing and dangerous. People shouldn't be chosing between levo and CBD oil. It's a good thing to take the CBD, it can help enormously. But, it can't replace levo.
130396, You should not take anything from this article at all.
As greygoose has said, it's written by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. It's full of glaring and potentially dangerous inaccuracies.
I didn't suggest you were, 130396. I was talking about the article and the effect it could have on the general public that knows nothing about thyroid.
I took CBD oil for a long time - T3 in the morning, CBD in the evening - and I found it very helpful.
but I find more than a coincidence that I started feeling jittery and anxious on Sunday afternoon while quietly sitting watching a film, then low and behold my ft4 has spied over range which I over 38!years had neverbvr happened before. Ft4 is usually 14.
I’m February it was 16.8 and that’s pretty high for me so it’s somehow linked
Or, there was an error in the analysis. It does happen. And, without trawling through all your posts, which I don't have time to do, I don't know what other factors could have caused it.
For example, did you take your levo too close to your blood draw for that test?
Was your FT3 tested at the same time?
Did you forget to take your T3 at any time between tests?
Do you know the cause of your hypothyroidism?
Do you know if you still have a working thyroid, if only a little bit?
Are you still taking all those other medications you mention on your profile?
So many possibilities that you cannot automatically conclude that it was the CBD oil.
That said, another thing about that article that I don't understand is: what do they mean by 'compiled'? If you always take the same dose of levo, I don't see how the level can suddenly rise in the blood. Where would the extra come from?
Well, whatever that article says, I don't see how CBD oil can cause your FT4 to rise when you've been on thyroid hormone replacement for 38 years. It's not logical - sounds more magical to me! If they said it could reduce levels, I could believe that, but not raise them.
it's only a tad over range. And your T3 isn't over at all. Edit (but it might have been if you had taken T3 at the correct time, I suppose. But if you're starting to feel symptoms, then maybe something does need to change.
by the way:
No idea what the cause of my hypothyroid. It’s not autoimmune as antibodies a negative.
A negative result doesn't prove not autoimmune. it s just that a positive result does prove it. Hope that makes sense.
just to help you understand . I had this sent to me from an advisor who deals with cbd ( no knowledge of thyroid though or interactions )
Rose Greenfield hi,
I can see you have two new posts pending regarding this. Just to make you aware, we are volunteers so it can take time to answer posts and queries and we appreciate patience to do this.
As already discussed, and to remind you, the patches will have had a 'jittery' effect because you opted to use two far too early in your CBD routine. This will have likely flooded your system and been too much for you to take this early, resulting in the symptoms you are experiencing. Because your system has been flooded the effects won't disappear instantly when the patch(es) are removed. We recommend everyone starting CBD do so on a low dose and build up with time. It can take a few days for the effects of this to calm down.
It's also worth noting that sativa is not the best option for everyone as it depends on what you are looking to treat. For some it is too uplifting.
The indica range does not come in capsules and the closest option will be the purple capsules, which are 70% indica. As with the patches, you would start taking these on the lowest dose, the 50mg capsules, and increase gradually over a number of weeks. Again, whether these are the best option or not will depend on what you are treating. They will be unlikely to get rid of the after effects you are experiencing of using two patches.
My suggestion would be to give us full details of your diagnoses and ALL your medication so we can look at the best options for you.
Please be aware that starting and stopping and switching products will also not be good for your endocannabinoid system; CBD needs to be consistent in order to get results, and can take 6 weeks or more for some to notice even gradual changes. It is a process rather than an overnight cure 💜🌱
How long was the gap between your last dose of levo and the blood draw? Taking it too close to the blood draw is the usualy cause, you get a false high FT4. Or, do you take biotin? Or, as I said, laboratory error. Or, perhaps your conversion has got worse.
Just seen that you said above that it was a 24 hr gap. Sorry, for the confusion.
Hi Greygoose Am just curious but having patches on continuously could it affect blood tests? Bit like biotin? It is curious that after being consistant on ft4 results for so long there is a sudden rise in Ft4 levels.
it seems possible that the fT4 might have been rising for a while , (unrelated to using the patches) .. looks to be a rising trend , rather than a sudden spike . .
"Ft4 is usually 14. In February it was 16.8 "
"The only thing is I used cbd patches and doubled up on Saturday night."
"I started feeling jittery and anxious on Sunday afternoon while quietly sitting watching a film"
The sudden onset jitteryness is most likely the result of applying two patches the night before. ie. the symptom probably caused by the double dose of CBD , and not by the higher fT4 level.
Yes , i think it was probably the double patch causing the jitters, not the fT4 .
BUT the fT4 appears to have been rising steadily for a while anyway , and is now over range .
So try going back to 1 patch /or stop CBD for a few weeks, and if that doesn't fix the jitters and if the fT4 hasn't come back down by next test , then it might be a good idea to reduce Levo dose very slightly.
(over range fT4 is not desirable long term if you can avoid it)
You didn't say what previous Levo dose was , but maybe try reducing to half way between previous dose and current dose , and try that for a couple of months.
I was actually thinking that if it didn’t come down then I’d drop 26mcg t4 and increase t3 to 20mcgs.
The test prior to the June test results
09/05/22125mcgs Levo +15 T3 last dose 24hrs before test at 8am Tsh <0.03(0.35-4.94)Ft4 11.4(9-19) 24%Ft3 4.6(2.6-5.7)65.62%Add 20% 5.3 84.38%1x100 patch 3 1/2 weeks Oestradiol here 169
Also just to say I’ve had no patches on since Tuesday afternoon this week
just so you know..... estrogen has an effect on fT4 (in relation to Total T4) ..but whether the amount in patches is enough to have this effect , i'm not so sure.
Estrogen affects the amount of Thyroid Binding Globulins (TBG) produced by the liver , and these are what 'bind' T4.
More TBG means more T4 is 'bound' and less is 'free'
The sum of the 'Free T4' and the 'bound T4' is what is measured in a Total T4 test.
This is why post menopause (when there is less estrogen) some need a bit less levo
and also why when HRT is started, it can mean some need a higher dose of Levo.
yes , i wouldn't think there is any need to increase T3 .. it's about 60% at 24 hrs ,so it's going to be guite a bit higher than that at 12hrs anyway .
thank you for this gem of a comment . i’m on hrt patches and my t4 has gone out of range high but my t3 has dropped low . Had to fight with gp to let me try an increased dose of levo because to them if your t4 is high or normal you’re good . im defo not good at the moment .
As always, greygoose, excellent response (and punching holes into this article ). I was about to comment but could not have said it any better. There is so much misinformation in this article and it really needs to be read with a lot of caution (and knowledge). I have a feeling that this is one of the websites that promotes CBD almost as a cure-all. I assume they are selling that stuff? I also take (prescription) CBD for sleep and pain and take it well away from thyroid hormones. And I mention this to make clear that I am not against CBD.
I think CBD is wonderful stuff, and look forward to the day when I can afford it again. But equating it with levo is just ludicrous. And this thread is the proof of the sort of harm it can do.
Haha! Absolutely "against people who sell it", if they promote their product with half-cooked (potentially dangerous) information, which ruins its reputation
just found this recent study .... note it's about people with no thyroid problem..... so absorption of levothyroxine not relevant here, and they have fully working thyroid glands.
but it did find a small increase in fT4 (and reduction in TSH) after 3 months of CBD use .. the increase in fT4 was statistically significant , but very small in real terms 15.54 up from 15.07 .. (presumably that's in pmol/l)
Upon further examination of thyroid function measures, it appears that TSH values were tending to decrease while FT4 tended to increase. However, the changes in both measures remained within normal ranges. FT4 was significantly higher after 3 months of treatment (15.54 ± 1.9) as compared to its level before treatment (15.07 ± 1.88) (p = 0.03). TSH was higher before treatment (2.34 ± 1.17) as compared to the level after 3 months of treatment (2.05 ± 1.02) (p = 0.01).
5 Discussion
Although a significant change in the TSH, FT4, and LDH was observed, they were all within normal range."
they seem to be using this (genuine) study to base most of their 'thyroid' blurb on. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...Clinical Significance of Cannabinoid Receptors CB1 and CB2 Expression in Human Malignant and Benign Thyroid Lesions
But I think much what they write about thyroid needs treating with caution...
it seems to be a site written by teacher , and a midwife ,who obviously have no detailed knowledge of thyroid issues , as a way of promoting CBD for all sorts of conditions ..... and they've picked up on this bit of evidence about research finding Cannabidiol receptors (CB1 / CB2) in thyroid glands .. and used it to write some rather wooly articles promoting CBD products for 'anything to do with the thyroid'
i’ve came across a few other articles today in relation to cbd improving thyroid activity and another saying contraindications with levo and cbd ( very limited info though and research as with a lot cbd and supplement stuff ) I am anxious and joint pain all the time and on hrt so want to try cbd . i think i’m going to go ahead after reading all this but just be aware that levo might need adjusted down or up in the future if i am on cbd daily . but right now i’m just going to use cbd now and again in small doses for my anxiety when i need it rather than daily because i’m currently trialling a higher dose of levo . don’t want to do too much at the one time and lose track .
I have tried cbd oil and ashwaganda amongst others. Not cbd patches though. I didn’t find any change. However I would say the only thing that has been problematic to me is changing brands. The same amount of one brand can send me way over when I try another. Have you always had the same brands of levo? Just a thought.
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