I am wondering whether anyone who is sensitive to dairy or intolerant to lactose for any reason, found they can better tolerate raw unpasteurised milk, butter and cheese? If you have sibo or histamine issues have you found it better than pasturised milk?
I am thinking of trying it as I'm finding processing normal dairy hard on my system at the moment and read some experiences on instagram that suggest some people find it easier (much like some find sourdough more tolerable than normal bread) to take.
It's expensive compared to normal shop bought milk though!
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Alanna012
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In that second link I posted, or was it on Isabella Wentz's page about dairy issues it did say about the proteins being different in camel milk. Thats not ideal though as I can't imagine popping into Starbucks and expecting to be served camel milk as an alternative. 😆
If you've had kefir before it's a bit similar in taste. I'm going off my African childhood memories so dont hold me to it. Its absolutely amazing in its nutritional properties. Do a deep dive research.
How: Its molecules structure is completely different
If you're in America, there is a small camel farm that ships them overnight. If you're in the UK , there are a few places you can look into
Well I found at least one direct supplier who even produces it raw and they make some interesting - points - on their website:
Camel milk is:
Lactose intolerant friendly – it is the least allergenic of all mammalian milks.
Contains 5 times more Vitamin C than cows milk – good for your skin.
Naturally contains insulin – can aid diabetics.
Has many immune boosting properties.
Can help children with autism.
Creamy in texture.
I looked up the part on insulin and apparently it is true: Camel milk also contains approximately 52 micro unit/ml of insulin-like protein compared to cow milk (16.32 micro unit/ml) which mimic insulin interaction with its receptor, and it has a higher content of zinc [21] which has a key role in insulin secretory activity in pancreatic beta cells.
However it's still a relatively novel product so it would cost no less than £40+ pounds for two litres with delivery!💀
Asda do a long-life version considerably cheaper, but I hate long life milk and would want to know what it is really supposed to taste like first.
I'm definitely galvanised to try this now as the benefits seem very favourable
There is an American woman on my sibo fb group that uses raw camel milk in her gut healing protocol. m.facebook.com/groups/47062...
Last year, I was looking into traveling to Mecca with my dad and did some research on raw camel milk. Though it has healing powers there were some traveling warnings regarding it. It made me hesitant to try the raw version.
I didnt end up traveling due to not being in the best health. If I had , I would have much preferred to try the pasteurized store bought version sold in Mecca.
In your shoes, I would be more inclined to first try the Asda camel milk to taste it.
Kefir is great (fermentation makes it healthy and it's tasty, especially in smoothies) and you can get it at Polish shops, among others. Also there you can find 'siadłe mleko' which is a sort of soured milk, which does not taste sour, it's a very refreshing drink. (a bit like buttermilk). As always, those sorts of products are better from the refrigerator section as the nutritional value is much higher.
I suspect (waiting for dao test results but based on reaction and symptoms I pretty much know) I have histamine intolerance and sibo. I've suspected sibo for ages but not engaged with it. I am trying to see what I can hang onto in my diet. Already realised that onions and garlic might have to go😩. I can't
So I want to see if I tolerate raw better. I can't live without dairy.
I'll sell you one of my children if you want - but I can't give up cheese and butter nooo.
As if gluten and onions and garlic weren't enough!
I know, I know. I really like a good cheese and indulging in the odd latte here and there. I did actually train myself to like espresso coffee in the end which comes in very useful. Also there are so many alternatives to cheese out there now that vegan has become big.
Once you've taken the plunge with dairy and anything else free and realise both the physical and mental health benefits then you won't need convincing anymore and will be pretty keen to hang on to your children!
As time goes on and your gut gets more into balance + better thyroid replacement then you can slowly re introduce things like onions and garlic and may be able to have them on an occassional basis.
There are so many now its hard to know which one to try even. Look at reviews on the supermarket sites. I quite like the Shamombert and Le Rond camombert alternatives.
I've booked in for lunch with a friend in a local posh hotel (surprisingly the cafe is very reasonably priced!) that now has a fancy cafe serving mostly vegan but also everything is dairy free. looking forward to that.
I am afraid I don't really agree with vegan alternatives offering the same nutritive value. Vegan alternatives to cheese are highly processed and if you are looking to calm down gut reactions and feed your microbiome then processed foods are not advantageous. I read this thread as I was thinking of trying raw dairy. I have been off dairy for many years but indulging in a bit of goats cheese but I am not sure if I should be ! my issues are more blood brain barrier rather than SIBO ie brain fog and cognition
Very pertinent point! We do want to avoid processed foods as much as possible, I agree! I've seen veganism done well then there's the trendy, heavily processed foods that are an easy sell for the supermarkets.
I have unfortunate experience of the misery of brain fog and the problems with cognition. Often very overlooked. I notice the profound difference in things like attention, recognition of faces and spaces, time awareness, executive functioning slowing down, even speech and memory. It all sucks. I think it is my gut that is part of the problem since you have neurotransmitters in your stomach...
Thank you for your reply . It is actually quite reassuring for me even though I completely understand that it is horrible for you. I too have endless things going on and fret a lot about brain deterioration.
Regarding garlic/onion..it could be a sulfur sensitivity caused by the sibo and not necessarily histamine. Theres a video I linked on my sibo post that dives into a girl's sulphur journey
That would work if the issue was the sugar lactose. If the issue is 'dairy' then the only alternatives for me are oat, coconut & almond 'milks' as I don't do soy products either.
Ah! interesting Jaydee, what are the other constituents in milk that cause problems - I am ignorant to the nuance, this is not an area I investigated beyond getting lactofree and finding it worked for me. Would be good to read around😊 any tipsters gratefully received.
It's the proteins in milk & it's products that can cause issues for some, hence regardless of the source of the milk whether it be from a sheep or a cow the proteins are the same.
A lot of people don't understand what it's about. I went to quite a foodie artisan bakery and they mistakenly thought it was OK to offer me a salad containing Feta cheese which I had to point out was still milk aka dairy regardless of it's source.
I've had a blood test that came back negative for dairy allergy so really not sure the exact mechanism of what happens when I consume anything dairy. I have heard that it can block B vitamin pathways so perhaps thats the issue but theres no test for that as far as I know.
I do eat butter and occasionally cheese and never understood how I could tolerate some forms of dairy over others. I'm 2/3 rds through but will continue to read - thank you so much. 🤗
that explains it 😊👍. I do leave days between hammering the cheese and rarely do yogurt now as it gives me heartburn- so a little more insight as to why. Thank you ☺️🙏
Gluten is in many manufactured yoghurts.... You have to check ingredients carefully. Yoghurt used to give me heartburn too.... But since switching to GF yoghurt products. Am fine. YEO Valley is usually GF but not akways- most of the others are not. Not saying this is you but many people assume that yoghurt is pure dairy when it's not when mass produced.
Something else I hadn't considered. Though I shall going forward. I only dabble in full fat Greek occasionally and funnily enough I do favour Yeo Valley over everything so an accidental win there. I guess I'm not surprised though. I bought a tube of fresh basil once only to find it contained dairy! Luckily I realised in time as I was cooking for a vegan. 😱
this is me too, lactofree prosucts give me a funny tummy too. I stick to coconut.
I have a long distant memory of a food unlocked TV show visiting a donkey farm in Italy ( maybe cousins of our dear TiggerMe ) they said lactose intolerant children were being given donkey milk worldwide from this farm as it was closer to breast milk in its properties.
Tempted to try camel, I wonder if Alpaca or Llama is similar? More of those around here but not especially large in the udder department, maybe I should stick to nut milks 🤣
I used to be a dairy farmer but I think it is on the way out, quite unnatural really and terrible for the planet... camel and donkey milk.. really!! Don't fancy the sound of either and how do they scale that up and ship it all over the world... wrong on so many levels??
Unless you have room for one on the back garden?... now that could be fun 😀
Stick with nut milk and hug more trees to say thank you 🤗
There would have been no Tarka the Otter without donkey milk! This is a brief description of one volume of Henry Williamson's autobiographical mega-work.
Donkey Boy is an evocation of time and place: of an ordinary family living in south-east London at the turn of the nineteenth/twentieth century. As the book opens we are in 1897 and at the beginning of the story of Phillip, Richard Maddison’s first born (and the central character of A Chronicle of Ancient Sunlight), now two years old and nicknamed ‘Donkey Boy’ because, due to his early problems, his life was saved when he was fed on the milk of an ass, brought to his despairing parents by ancient Mr Pooley. The book is an honest and vivid account of young childhood with all its trials and tribulations, and we truly live the lives of this fictional family with the wealth of detail of their lives and of the period.
My daughter in law was medically diagnosed as lactose intolerant as is my sister - they're both fine if they eat lactose free products. So am intrigued by these two types of lactose intolerance Do you have more info.I do sympathise I'm gluten intolerant & that is also very limiting. No fancy coffees as the have gluten in them same with beers etc Eating out can be a nightmare.... Cost of living has seen that one off pretty well..... Am now used to carrying an emergency supply incase I end up with nothing!! But at least am well!
As for going abroad..... That can be a very 'interesting' affair when you throw in language barriers! 🤣
There are several different reasons that people cannot eat dairy products.
Lactose intolerance is just one. Lactose is a sugar contained in milk and some people simply cannot break it down which causes them symptoms. They are fine eating dairy that contains low amounts of lactose such as some cheeses.
Dairy allergy can be pretty dangerous in its worst form and can cause someone to go into anaphylaxis. Can cause rashes etc
Dairy intolerance is more likely what many here with Hashi's suffer. There is no test for it other than a trial elimination of dairy from the diet. It may be caused by milk products being inflammatory, presumably the proteins in dairy.
Thanks Jaydee for clarifying that. Had me worried for my family then.... They're both definitely lactose intolerant.My sister reacts by getting a blocked nose & sinusitis. My daughter in law is violently sick.
My sister says if she eats out she's always offered fresh fruit salad for her pud. Dairy is in so many products rather like gluten is. Most restaurants even if prewarned don't bother to cook a specific lactose free product. I find the same with GF.
Interestingly my gluten intolerance does go back to the three years of illness before I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. Medics preferred the go to diagnosis CFS/ME. I have struggled for years with subtle symptoms of GI but tested negatively for coeliacs twice,.... But eventually I had all the classic symptoms. By then my tummy was huge, though I suddenly started dropping weight mainly cos I was struggling to eat any thing. Going GF has changed my body shape, took months infact nearly 2, years to heal but now I'm in proportion, the big tum gone. My neurologist says from the mri scan there is brain damage to the motor cortex associated with the bodies reaction to gluten attacking it.
It's time the medical fraternity woke up more to the harm that certains foods can do & stopped dismissing patients symptoms.
There is an additional reason. One of the t.v. programmes a good few years ago said that most of the world 's population are intolerant to milk , especially some ethnic groups. To be able to drink milk in adulthood you must have a mutation. They mentioned a test you could do to be tested genetically purely to see if you had a mutation allowing you to drink milk in adulthood. I duly did the test and it had to go to Sweden.
I am the proud owner of not one, but two mutations. Doubely able to drink milk in adulthood.
However, I can't. In a food intolerance test, I have an intolerance to casein, which is the protein rather than the lactose part of the milk. I used to drink 4 litres a day, and was addicted to it. Love the stuff, and had to give it up entirely.
Due to other metabolic genetic testing, I now know I also have a mild enzyme deficiency to lactose.
Simpler to go dairy free. There are so many different reasons.
Where you can break down the lactose into glucose and galactose - but can't tolerate that galactose.
Thankfully, truly rare. But that doesn't help if you have it.
Galactosemia (hereditary, galactose intolerance)
Causes
Hereditary galactosemia is a genetic disease leading to the inability to break down (digest) galactose, a sugar found in lactose (milk sugar). Half of lactose is galactose, the other half is glucose. Over 150 genetic mutations have been described. Three main enzyme defects are known, affecting galactose-1 phosphate uridyl transferase deficiency (classic galactosemia or GALT, the most common and most severe form), galactose kinase (GALK) or galactose-6-phosphate epimerase.
When a baby with galactosemia drinks human or animal milk or dairy products, substances made from galactose build up in different organs, causing damage to especially the liver, brain, kidneys, and eyes.
Malabsorption and intolerance of glucose and galactose and of galacto-oligosaccharides are distinct conditions.
Not all coffee. just the syrup ones do.... Like the special coffees they do in cafes. If you look on the labels of yoghurt you will see some do have gluten in... Depends what they add in. Often fruit ones. I was shocked when I discovered this. I don't know why but am guessing it's the thickeners. YEO I've found don't do this.
It's really very simply. Main thing you might not have other than a blender is a muslin to strain out the mixture. You can water it down a bit too to make it go further and it would still be a higher % than supermarket brands
Thank you Charlie, I have tried lactofree milk in the past and not been delighted with the taste but then as you say, when push comes to shove, one might have train oneself to like it!
I'm lactose intolerant too, but can get away with just a bit of stomach rumbling with a tiny amount as an ingredient or if the cheese, for example, has low levels. Have you tried the different brands of lactofree milk to compare taste? I like the taste of the Arla brand, preferring the semi-skimmed, but can't abide their homogenised/long life version, but then that used to be true for me of cow's milk. I can't think of other brands at the moment except Aldi who do their own lactofree, both fresh & longlife but to me they taste the same, quite vile. These days the nut & oat milks are the same price or cheaper than the lactofree in any case, so I tend to go for the unsweetened nut ones, last resort being the oat as it's much higher in calories (& I do like the taste in particular of almond milk; I can't tolerate soy.)
Thanks for sharing! I'll try those brands and see if there's a difference. I've tried Cravendale but am not sold on the taste! I do occasionally have Almond milk which is alright. Oat milk I heard is not good for you, something about the processing of it changing it's chemical structure. I too can't tolerate soy milk at all or soy in general, but in my twenties, I drank soy milk like water and gave it to my kids! Gave me terrible stomach cramps and I kept going until it got so bad I had to stop😬 Tigernut milk is nice if you can get it, it's pretty rare though!
You're only the third person I've heard of who can't tolerate soy either. It's such a shame that so many vegan foods are stuffed full of it, & when they say "plant based" on packaging or menus, I have to check, or ask, "& which plant, please?". I can still tolerate soy sauce, or a bit of soya flour in processed pre-packed bread, & had had the occasional tofu dish in the past, but about 20 years ago, I ate at an oriental vegan buffet, & didn't know what the pretend meat was, but considering when that was, it had to be soya based. 30 mins later, I had the most dreadful stomach cramps on the way home & then had to duck off the bus & take refuge in a pub's loos for about an hour until...well... I felt as though I'd been sluiced out! Years later the same happened with a dish crammed full of lactose - a cream based seafood chowder, so at the time I couldn't tell if it was the fish that was bad, or that I had developed another intolerance. It took lockdown for me to be able to experiment at length in the comfort of my home, & by process of elimination, it had to be lactose (I was a 6 weeks premature baby, so it makes sense that it all comes out in middle aged adulthood, although the warning signs were there much earlier as I was very snotty as a child & teenager, with constant snuffles & catarrh, but then I was given Jersey cow, extra rich, cream milk!).
I take lactase pills, to still enjoy the odd bar of milk chocolate, branded cream of chicken soup, shop bought quiche etc, with mostly good results, but they're quite expensive, & it's hard to get the dosage right (& the side effect can be constipation the next day). I also have lactase drops which are particularly effective in cow's milk as it's easier to blend. I've tried Cravendale milk & really rather like the very different taste. I should try to find the tigernut milk you mention (thankyou), & camel milk, as others have recommended, if I can, as there's the aspect of certain beneficial nutrients that come from an animal's milk, but I'm happy with Arla Lactofree & almond. You're right, I've also heard the same about oat milk - & it's interesting that for lowering cholesterol, everyone suggests increasing oat intake but they never mention oat milk as a suitable product.
Thanks for your post! I've not heard of lactase drops before. What brand are they and where do you buy them? Yes soy being crammed into lots of foods is a big issue, I think it's eventually going to become a big problem and lots of people will be complaining. I read genuine long-fermented soy sauce is extremely expensive and what they put in foods usually isn't broken down enough and just becomes an endocrine disruptor. As you say it brings on stomach trouble. One of the only good things about the pandemic was the ability to pay attention to one's health, I'm glad you were able to work out what your intolerances are.
They do adult but raspberry flavoured pills too, which are quite nice for eating just before some chocolate but not before a quiche (!), & special ones for kids - probably just a marketing ploy ;). I find the drops have been effective well after the use by date, but I do keep them in the fridge. The best & cheapest pills are by Holland & Barrett, but I only found the Milkaid drops in the Whole Food Market.
After taking antibiotics and developing sibo, h plyori and gastritis I developed an intolerance to cow's milk . I switched over to goat kefir and my stomach has been loving it. After a few yrs later I've been able to reintroduce cow's kefir here and there.
That's good and reassuring to know, thanks Imaan. I do like kefir and it's not something I want eliminated from ever being able to have. I know you're not meant to take probiotics with sibo, so it's great to hear that kefir is still an option. Do you make it yourself or buy it?
I should point out that several ppl have been avoiding kefir and sauerkraut on the sibo fb group I belong to. Either they're scared it will feed the bacteria/archae/yeast or they avoid it because it further aggravates their symptoms. Then there are some who use it, like me.
After the antibiotics, my digestion went haywire and I was going to the toilet multiple times a day. The only thing that reduced and stopped it was lactose free probiotic yogurt. Then I switched over to goat kefir and never looked back.
For me its benefits outweigh everything else. I buy my goat kefir. If you've never tasted it, be warned. Goat milk has an acquired taste.
Where have you found lactofree probiotic yoghurt, please? I've only found Tesco doing a basic full fat lactofree yoghurt. I've not even seen Arla do any lactofree yoghurts although I've found their cheeses, single cream, & spread. Other shops & brands do a)soya or b)coconut based (non probiotic), of which a) I can't tolerate, & b) find too sweet & cloying.
I used to drink mini cholesterol lowing yoghurt drinks (needed to) & couldn't tell if they gave me a problem or not but must do a controlled test on those - they do a low fat version, & now a plant-based which I think is soya, but I've not seen a lactofree version.
I'm in Canada and I doubt that this brand is available overseas. It has sugar in it and a few other ingredients that I rather didnt but beggars cant be choosers. My stomach was able to tolerate it and it helped stop my 3 week diarrhea after antibiotics
Also, I was able to tolerate Astro Biobest probiotic yogurt. Its 90% lactose free and has very little sugar astro.ca/products/astro-bio...
It's expensive because it's well produced. We have it. I love it because I'm a dairy farmers granddaughter and remember the flavour so well. But I have no idea if you would tolerate it. I can't see a reason why you might, but it's certainly better quality milk. The hoops they have to jump through are considerable.
How interesting, tell me more FancyPants! Is there any particular farmer's brand you'd recommend? I do admit I was thinking I wouldn't necessarily pass it to my children just in case, but it sounds like my concerns are unfounded.
I have bought unpasteurised butter from Sainsbury's in the past and they do an unpasturised cheese...but they taste generic and I doubt it is the same as buying direct from the farm! I don't think I did any better on them.
Milk has been pasturised for decades but I do recall it being much creamier in the past, I'm talking 70s etc. It doesn't to my mind, taste the same now.
Supermarket milk tastes of next to nothing. I loved milking time at Nan's farm and would take a mug over to the dairy and dip into a fresh full churn when it came off the cows and drink it. Warm, frothy and full of flavour and cream.
We buy our milk from Hook & Son farm on the Thames Estuary. It comes up once a week by ParcelForce in a box with ice packs. It tastes like I remember. I hate semi-skimmed or even worse skimmed milk so I haven't drunk anything other than full cream for many years.
If you are intolerant of milk though I can't see that raw will help. Pasteurised is just heat treated to kill bugs. I prefer my milk from a source that doesn't allow the bugs in in the first place. Fermented might help you to tolerate it, as in organic kefir or fermented butter (another gem we can buy from a local dairy to us).
The cream content of milk is breed related and feed related. Frisian (the black and white cows we see many fields of) produce a very large quantity of milk each day but with much less cream content and therefore flavour. Older breeds with smaller udders that produce less milk per day have higher cream content. Jersey cows are the pinnacle of cream production and their milk is lovely. But of course, like everything else these days, milk has to be got from the cows that give the most regardless of quality of flavour. The poor things don't like as long either as some of the older breeds. My Nan's small herd was mixed. Some of the brown and brown and white cows lived a very long time, as did her one and only Jersey cow.
There that was probably a lot more than you wanted to know! But I am quite passionate about the quality of food we are fobbed off with in the country and I strive to do as well as I can in all things. I buy organic fruit and veg, but not from supermarkets unless it's a last chance. We have been fortnightly customers of the Riverford Organic Box Scheme for years too. Plus we grow a bit of our own if we can.
Alanna012 Reading Fancy's reply reminded me of H2 milk . It's made from another type of cow that isn't Jersey . It starts with H. Some do well on this their milk when they cant touch Jersey cow's milk
I honestly loved reading this FancyPants54, absolutely fantastic! I could truly spend an entire day with you asking you questions about farming life and listening to you talk about food. The stuff you say about the cows makes absolute sense and explains the mystery. I remember very creamy milk (and for that matter better quality eggs that you could flip and didn't disintegrate in the pan). As a child, I used to hate getting a big glob of cream in my cereal which happened all the time because it was so creamy. I had thought it was due to homogenisation, but one day I decided to buy some un-homogenised milk from Sainsbury's and it still didn't hark of the milk of the past.
I 'follow' many accounts on off-grid living and homesteading (mostly USA based though) and avidly watch self sufficiency videos on YT. Ask me why, when I'm never going to be able to live the life, but one can dream....I'd love to have a few acres. A mis-spent youth and huge UK land prices and being ill, means it never gonna happen.
I joined a UK food canning and preservation group recently though and it's fascinating to get knowledge and tips from (sometimes) very old people about practical stuff we've all forgotten but must have been very handy in more frugal times.
Out of curiosity what's wrong with shop bought organic? Is it not what it's cracked up to be? Where I am it is pretty hard to get organic unless you're going to Sainsbury's or Waitrose. Or drive to a pick your own (I don't drive) You have these posh independent grocers, but sometimes they say something is organic and slap a high price on it, but you have no clue whether it really is or not.
Farmers market is slightly better, at least it comes covered in dirt.
I wish I could afford organic meat though, I really do. I envy you the fermented butter! Yes, a lot our illnesses are being caused by the quality of our food, sadly.
It's not that there's anything wrong with the organic status of the fruit and veg in supermarkets, its that like non-organic in the same shops, it's picked too early, kept too long in very chilled containers and delivered to store quite some time from the day it was picked. It just degrades the produce doing that to it. Better to pick it fresh when it's actually ripe/ready and eat it quickly.
You must have a box system for fruit and veg near you? They are everywhere now.
Nan's farm was the last of a dying breed. A small mixed farm, some dairy, some beef, some arable. She didn't do sheep, wrong sort of land, and she had chickens and ducks and goats for her own fun. I loved all and everything about it. I could not wait to get there at the weekends and holidays. She bought it by accident really. She was left some money from her grandparents and as a divorcee with mostly adult children by then (my dad was away doing his national service) she went to an auction to buy a house. She came home with a farm! Fortunately there was a lot of farming in the family so she had plenty of help setting up and getting going and a great farm manager, who eventually became her second husband. Everyone loved him but he died just before I was born. It was the antithesis of modern day farming. But I learned a lifelong series of lessons from it.
Eggs! Don't get me started on eggs. I love eggs. Boiled, scrambled, poached, fried. But oh dear the eggs of today taste of nothing. I have tried the fancy branded ones, the simple ones, eggs from the butcher (better), and all the organic eggs on offer in our local Waitrose. But they are nothing like an egg from your own chickens (I have kept a few myself in the past). I was very lucky for years. I lived a short drive from an organic egg farm who had a little wooden summerhouse by the side of the road and a special chilled egg vending machine in it. And anytime of day (or night if you remembered your torch) you could go in, put your coins in the machine and wait for a second before the click and squeak of a long thin door swung open in the machine and a dozen huge and gorgeous eggs were yours to take home. He supplied M&S and Waitrose but they only want standard sized eggs. His vending machine had all the oversized or double jokers in it. And he filled it twice a day with eggs just laid. They were the best eggs ever. I ate them for breakfast most days for well over a decade. He retired last year. I was so disappointed. Eggs just aren't the same since.
I've never tried canning. But I love to make jam.
Organic meat is more expensive of course, but there are cheaper cuts if you buy direct from a butcher or farm. We place an order now and then if we want something really fancy and expensive but fill up the box with all the cuts people have forgotten about and that you struggle to get from a supermarket. Breast of lamb! I love that. Pigs feet to make casseroles luscious etc. The only thing I don't eat, just can't get to like it, which is a shame because I need it! is liver.
We substitute our expensive organic meat with cheaper supermarket versions or just good quality non-organic from a local butcher. We don't go on fancy holidays, we don't go out much. We choose to spend our income on good things to eat. We are happy with that.
Love these posts Fancy! I could listen all day I tell you! The egg vending machine sounds like heaven! I am going to look into seeing if I can afford a small box of organic offal and unusual cuts and some eggs, cause I agree the ones in the shops aren't as tasty and not of the good quality. I appreciate that it requires a bit more sacrifice to eat well!
I enjoyed reading this . I’ve just finished reading ‘ English pastoral’ by James Rebanks. Do you know it? He describes his grandad’s and father’s farm and it sound just like your Nan’s and then tells you the story of how farming has changed in his village.
I’m passionate about seeds, so I also like to add that what you’re describing about cow breeds , is happening to seeds too. Only highyielding, most-profitable varieties are being grown for supermarkets and we’re at a real risk of losing diversity in our seeds. Flavour or nutrients don’t seem to be important.
just wanted to say I’m loving this thread, have you found homestead rescue on discovery? I aspire to having a call from Channel 5 to say Ben Fogle wants to visit for new Lives in the Wild 🤣. Won’t happen while we are in a 3 bed semi with an allotment down the road. We have an exit strategy to get this realised in the next 10’years 💕💕💕 I too grew up on raw milk delivered in little cannisters by the farmers wife. Mum was dead against homogenisation, said it ruined the milk. My Saturday job as a teen was in a specialist cheese shop. They joked their profits went up when I left (on account of how much I ate ‘just testing’ while I was there (cheeky blighters). I am in for canning, chutneying, freezing, drying and fermenting, been experimenting for years, mum is a jammer but I can’t deal with the sugar. These ‘old’ ways will be what saves us from consumer/corporate driven diets that make the world sick 🌱🦋🌱
Yes! Unfortunately I no longer have a TV though! I also used to be addicted to Life Below Zero and Yukon men and everything else about homesteading in Alaska! I miss them all...
Lol at your teen job. Their profits definitely would have plummeted with me employed there!
How cool that you both can and ferment!. I am just getting into the theory of canning, until I joined the UK group everything I learned about it was USA based. I've had to relearn a bit! Undue fear of botulism put me off for years, as I didn't just want to can meat. Not afraid anymore after joining the UK group. I agree that it's a really important skill to have in these times and the old ways of growing and preserving food will be necessary again!
Canning etc is great. I grew up on a farm, mom had a huuuge garden and canned loads. I started making jam 20 years ago and when we moved to the country over two years ago, I finally got a garden and canned like crazy, (thank you mom, that I know how!) If sugar is a problem, you can make low sugar jams with pectin and a bit of citric acid for preserving as well as maintaining colour. I make my own raspberry preserves which are the next best thing to eating them off the bush (and not sweet!) My friend also makes jam with xylitol.
I grew up on a Guernsey farm - where we also made butter and clotted cream ! I remember the cream being a third of the milk bottle. I have a pic of the Dairymaid bottling up - how quaint !!
I've been watching these videos on making your own butter and buttermilk from cream at home, but I don't think shop bought will make very good quality.
I was allowed to write up the Milk Book - everyones name and their daily order ! Some staff on the Estate had a daily free pint. We sent the cream to customers up country too ! The butter churn was quite cumbersome to handle as a child - good exercise !
Wrapping the butter in greaseproof paper was an art - without tape !
I later progressed to plotting the white markings on a printed cow outline when a pedigree cow was registered !
Lots of memories of those days long ago - was born in '46. Thank you Blanche - Lobelia - Primrose et al...🌻
Chuckling Goat is goats milk of course and I don't like anything goat! But I can drink that kefir, the fizzier the better for me. From a supermarket I always have the organic versions, but there's one I like most as it's creamier and is the product of a Russian woman living in the UK for many years. Eastern Europe eats a lot of fermented milk products and she wanted to carry on when she came here but could not because it didn't exist. The quality of the live culture matters in this case too. I can't remember the darn name of it!
Oh no, please let me know the name if it does come to you, even if the thread gets old.
I forgot to say in my other reply that the thinking behind why someone might tolerate raw milk better is the cultures that don't get killed and the enzymes during pasturisation (Apparently. No idea if true) supposedly they help your body digest it better....
I have SIBO and treated it successfully with Botanicals but had breakthroughs. After I caught Covid for the first time in October I was put on antibiotics for the first time in many many years as I normally avoid them like the plague due to the fact that they really gum up my thyroid. I found that they almost instantly cleared the SIBO. Since then I have had Timms live Greek Yogurt and always buy Isigny Ste-Mère Unpasteurised Salted Butter both from Waitrose but you can get from Ocado too. I can also eat hard cheeses, coconut, almond and oat milk but love the combined coconut and almond drink that Waitrose sells. Ive also started recently to have the odd sourdough bread which has not upset me at all given Ive been strict GF for 10 years. Soy is a big No No but I am scared of trying Kefir although I feel I should! Im going to France later this year and wondering how I will get on..........
I don't think you will find any bread in France that's a rubbish as ours. They make it properly still, at least in bakeries. I can't vouch for supermarkets. If you like sourdough bread, try to find a local baker to buy it from or learn to make it. Supermarket sourdough is not proper sourdough. They add some to the normal fast bake process rather than make it out of sourdough and nothing else. A proper sourdough needs only flour, water, salt and some sourdough starter than lives in a jar on your counter or in the fridge for a period of calming contemplation if it gets a bit too lively. It's like having a pet!
do you make your own SD bread? ive tried many times and just cant manage to get it going actively enough, or a system to manage it for making 1 - 2 loaves per week
Because I do not make enough, I looked for alternatives and ended up using Sekowa baking ferment. It seems to be more like sourdough but comes dry in a tub. (Somewhat expensive, unfortunately - but you don't need much.)
Can take several days from starting to baking! Depending on lots of things like temperature. Once baked, most gets sliced and frozen. There is no other way of economically baking your own in small quantities.
Should ask what flour do you use? I have been using the organic French white flour for a number of years, but it too is now being fortified sadly. Thats a great looking loaf wish i could do it...
You can! Make a loaf that looks even better. (That one did come out looking particularly good.)
I find that Shipton have been the most economical supplier. Use a mix of white, wholemeal, rye (I always add some rye - whatever else), even some emmer or einkorn or anything else. Recently taken to including some fava bean flour and soaked mixed seeds. Balance changes every time I make some.
All white wheat flour will be fortified - that is, I'm afraid, how it is.
And that loaf was formed and proved in a banetton. They help so much with looks!
I used to work for Shipton... it like many companies pretends to be something they are not, quite an eye opener... Waitrose wanted to take pictures at the real factory and they were refused as it isn't quite the photogenic Cotswold stone mill and jolly family business as they like to make out..... I use and recommend Dove Farm 😉
Manager at the time used to work for Dove and said they are head and shoulders above and beyond in all aspects
Often get very good deals on Dove flour with Abel and Cole
That’s where we buy our flour, and like you use all sorts of other specialty flours mixed in. The banneton is essential for nice loaves. We have a round and long version.
my husband makes our bread. He goes in phases, sometimes it’s a sourdough phase, sometimes a conventional yeast phase (currently). There is never a problem with the starter being lively enough. Containing it is the hard part. Our neighbour makes sourdough bread too and uses up spare starter making sourdough crackers for cheese. They are delicious.
Wow I'm jealous. No such luck round here, city life! A VERY small Farmers market comes every saturday and that's about a 15 minute walk away. No raw dairy though and not always organic either. Veg still tastes better than supermarket bought though for sure!
I dont believe its that simple, Raw is important but there are many aspects that need to be addressed, e.g. organic, A1 vs A2. I found that that raw, A2, organic made a huge difference in my ability to thrive on real milk
I looked into it, I had never heard of this before but there is a farm selling raw A2. Amazing that this isn't better known and I'm definitely going to try it and see if it makes a difference, thank you!
When (I think helvella ) explained that taking oral Levo switches off the trigger to make lactase it all makes sense why so many of us can't tolerate dairy 💡
Don't know about the casein side of things but I can't tolerate A1 or A2
i had an experience of running out of milk to make yoghurt and bought a non supermarket brand from the supermarket, its branded as a small perfectly run organic family farm (all false) when I made the yoghurt it failed. Ive never had a fail b4 or since, i believe there was perhaps trace antibiotics in the milk.. just saying that all that is claimed by some of these companies may not be all true, it takes very little A1 milk in a batch to spoil the whole lot. What im trying to say is perhaps you could try again, from a small supplier that really has A2 genetics in all its herd.
Ernie has only breed from A2 x A2 cows so full accredited, like you say others claiming to be fully A2 might be fibbing 😱 I think there were a few other herds but whether they are still around
Yes, and unfortunately it is only because of being ill that I've had to wake up to this along with other things. Pyramid triangle cira 1985 anyone?
I have a totally different perspective on what is good food now.
I sometimes think back to how I ate during my pregnancies and shudder. And think about the way I ate when I didn't know I had hypothyroidism, along with all the antibiotics😐
If I eat badly now it's at least intentional and not complete ignorance!
Hi, I find I'm better on A2 dairy and fermented. I also like ghee. All organic. I make my own kefir and ghee. It's cheaper and I know the kefir will be truly 'live'. I'm starting to trial some cheeses e.g. organic gouda and cheddar which are reported to have probiotics in them. I seemed to be ok on those too.
I'd be a bit wary over consuming raw dairy, just because of the chance of picking up unwanted bacterial infections.
Milk from Jersey and Guernsey cows is A2. I also use goats milk, as that's A2 as well. It's unhomogenised, so has more beneficial properties than pasteurised. I get mine delivered from Able and Cole. 🙂
Its proper name was Labaneh but that was not the commercial makers name. It was used both in savoury food as in sweet. Nice texture, flavour etc and as I say settling for the stomach.
I tried the raw dairy items and unfortunately none worked for me… I don’t suffer with lactase persistence though, it’s the casein that I can’t tolerate
How do I find out if it’s the lactose or the casein?
Is it obvious?
I reacted to medication containing lactose before I was on Levo but didn’t realise that was the cause of my symptoms at the time….. I literally drank a pint of milky cocoa most nights of my adult life and had daily symptoms 😳 then on starting Levo when it all got even worse (on Teva) and SD and IW books suggested eliminating. Eliminating dairy has made a big difference to me. Can’t believe I didn’t figure this out earlier in my life! Especially with cocoas iron depleting properties doing me no favours.
Weirdly the cocoa has also had to go (even organic raw cacao) makes me gurgly even with coconut milk. 🤷🏽♀️
I had food intolerance tests done which showed I have issue with casein and DNA tests that were done showed no issue with lactase persistence. The food intolerance tests was P88 Antigen test done by Precision Point diagnostics which is lab in US
Thanks so much for taking the time to share. I’ll look into it. It would be helpful to understand what element is causing what. 🌱
I love raw milk! Helped my eczema too. It’s high in fat which isn’t great for hypo, but I love it and the health benefit claims about it are interesting x
yes raw milk is the healthiest have been drinking organic [ cows] raw milk from local farmer for many years the pastuerized kind[ unless lactose free] bothered my stomach this doesnt at all and now can eat dairy no problem . it still has the beneficial bacteria
I am lactose intolerant but I am fine with butter due to I think the high fat content. I haven't tried raw unpasteurised milk but I do find that drinking kefir helps.
yes no problems also found that eating all organic ,[plus drinking organic grass fed raw milk!][ from trusted local farmer], got rid of my very bad digestive problems had had for many many years, had trouble with many vegetables , beans ,,cheese , dairy . now is fine .was the GMOS , and pastuerized milk . now cook mostly from scratch and all organic .
Yes, I have a family member who had issues with store-bought (pasteurized) dairy, and had to take lactate pills. Raw, organic, grass-fed cows milk products are very tolerated by the family member now- no more pills!
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Off topic: Improvement on earplugs pls?
off topic, before my thyroid got sick
Off topic but thoughts please on my Mum
