Hey, I've been taking T3 (25mcg 2x a day) for about six months now and it was a game changer for me. I was suddenly able to get out of bed in a morning feeling like I had actually slept for the first time I could remember!
However, 6 weeks ago I cut out all meat, grains and most dairy (sometimes allowing myself a small amount of cheese with my veg but no milk which was my main source of dairy previously) I feel like a different person again . I know that before my thyroid results were 'within normal range' yet I was still showing severe signs of hypothyroidism and the T3 really helped me feel better than I had done in a long time.
I want to see now if I can reduce the amount of T3 I am taking but due to having zero T4 in my system I have to give my body time to start producing its own T4 again. What would be a good rate to decrease my current dose of T3 and how fast? Also can I expect some (or many) bad days and if I do have bad days how long should I give it before I give up and get back on the T3?
Thanks
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Rhub4rb
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What makes you think your body can make its own T4 again? Aren't you hypo? That means the thyroid can't make enough T4 and T3 to keep you well. I doubt it was drinking milk that caused that, so why do you think it's gone away?
If milk was making you feel bad, it was good to give it up. But, why meat? I risk becoming low in iron and very low in B12.
I think you can expect some pretty awful days, and they'll probably just get worse. And, if I were you, I wouldn't even contemplate it.
(OK. If I'm 100% honest, I have done it. But, not because I thought I could manage without it, but because I wanted to double check I was on the right dose. I took my T3 down the way I brought it up: 1/4 x 25 mcg tablet every two weeks. It wasn't pleasant, and I wouldn't recommend anyone try it, and I won't be doing it again. And, I ended up on the exact same dose that I was on before: 75 mcg T3 only.)
Its not really the milk I think was doing it.. I think I was ill for many reasons.. I've been able to stop taking my metaclopromide (it tells my stomach to empty) when before if I forgot just one dose when I lay down to go to bed I would realise all the food was still just sitting there in my upper stomach.. ok full disclosure I started the new diet as part of a parasite cleanse which was very successful (put it this way I lost 1st 4lbs in 4 days and not an inch off my waist and was drinking loads of water and eating veg so it wasn't fat or dehydration).. I have kept up the diet and feel really good..
Yes I was hypo but when medicated with T4 my T4 levels were off the charts (at one point nearly 40).. I cannot remember the figures when I was diagnosed 20 years ago but I'm pretty sure I was put on a small dose of T4 because my TSH was slightly raised and I had many symptoms..
I would be content just staying on them if they didn't have such a short life and I think it is really affecting my insulin sensitivity (I am T1 diabetic) throughout the day and my blood sugars are all over the place with my insulin requirements changing from hour to hour..
so if my body is capable of producing its own T4 I would like to give it a chance to work.. I might be hoping in vain but since they don't produce an extended version of T3 I could start taking it 4 times a day and see if that works but I'd like to try and reduce first and at the very least confirm that this is the dose I need.
What has a 'short life'? T3? T3 has a half-life of 24 hours in the blood. It doesn't do much in the blood, it has to get into the cells, but once in the cells, it stays there for about 3 days, meanwhile, you're continually topping it up every day. So, what has the length of it's life got to do with anything?
Well since going on it my blood sugars have destabilised considerably. Also if I forget to take my dose before I go to bed I wake with a deep voice like I used to get if I had had my t4 reduced but that would happen after a longer period of time.. If I haven't 'switched off' the production of T4 completely and might be able to at least reduce the dose of T3 and make some of it myself then I think it ciuld be good for my diabetes control and got to be better overall..
Yes, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. You can't just turn your thyroid on and off at will.
There are too possibilities:
a) your thyroid is still making as much T4 - and T3 also - as it's capable of making, and you're topping it up with exogenous hormone, in which case, whatever you do it's not going to be able to make any more, no matter what you do.
b) Taking exogenous hormone has completely shut it down, in which case you'd have to come off thyroid hormone completely for a while for it to restart making whatever it's capable of making, but that will only be the same amount it was making before you started taking exogenous hormone, which wasn't enough to make you well. And, as soon as you start taking thyroid hormone again, it will just shut down again. So, you won't be any better off.
Or, are you thinking that taking thyroid hormone replacement has somehow repaired your thyroid? No, that doesn't happen. THR is not a cure or a treatment of any kind for the actual gland. It is just to replace the hormone your thyroid can no-longer make on its own.
Hi greygoose, thanks for all this input. I have no experience with T3 but may soon be starting and am confused as well. If Rhub4rb is now healthier - sleeping better and improved digestion etc, which theoretically helps with conversion - isn’t it possible he/she could need less T3? Or would Rhub4rb currently be feeling hyper on current dose of T3 if that was the case? I guess the question is, does taking exogenous T3 in any way suppress endogenous T3 and/or T4, or can it?
I’m very new to how things are thought to work with exogenous T3 (was hoping not to have to worry about it) so happy to just be pointed to some good reading if it is too much/too nuanced to explain. Thanks!
Taking thyroid hormone replacement - exogenous thyroid hormone - certainly can suppress endogenous hormone production, yes. But, the point is, the reason she's taking the exogenous hormone in the first place is because her thyroid cannot make enough hormone to make her well. She is hypo. That doesn't get better.
And, even if sleeping etc does improve conversion, she'd have to have enough thyroid hormone to convert. And, the reason she's been taking T3 is because her thyroid can't make enough T4 for her to convert. Couldn't then, won't be able to now.
And, the only reason she is sleeping better and has improved digestion is because she is taking enough T3. If she were taking too much, not only would it show up in blood test results, but she would feel it. She wouldn't feel well. The fact that she does feel well suggests that she's taking the right amount of T3. Why risk messing around with it?
thanks, the first part and last part of that make sense to me. in terms of the conversion, if she is now feeling better and possibly converting better but still having some issues, would it be possible that experimenting with reducing T3 and upping her T4 could be another option? I guess I’m wondering if, for some, exogenous T3 can sometimes work as a kickstarter but then be switched back out for T4 to some degree once the body is healthier. Of course if the person is genetically a poor converter that wouldn’t be the case, but if poor conversion is due to some degree to gut or other improvable health issues, it seems possible. am i missing something? thanks!
Well, actually, we can't know how well she's converting, because she isn't taking any T4.
I guess I’m wondering if, for some, exogenous T3 can sometimes work as a kickstarter but then be switched back out for T4 to some degree once the body is healthier.
I'm afraid I can't tell if you're missing something, because I really don't understand what you're saying, there. Kickstarter for what? Conversion? I really don't think so. Switched back out? Sorry, doesn't make any sense.
But, as I said she isn't taking any T4, from what I can gather. So, none of that applies.
In any case, there can be so many reasons for poor conversion. We very often never even find the reason. But I don't think conversion is the question, here. It's whether or not her thyroid will be capable of making enough T4 to keep her well, once she stops exogenous hormone.
Sorry to discuss you as if you weren't there, Rhub4rb.
I was treating the symptoms of being underactive after 20 years of being on T4 still suffered major symptoms but even when taking T4 my body was still producing T4 (my levels were really high even when it was reduced to 150 and my symptoms increased ten fold) but my T3 level was at the bottom of the normal range and when I started on T3 I did see an improvement but still struggled with fatigue etc.. So I believe I did have a conversion problem and/or my body couldn't use the T3 efficiently..
I have only started feeling really well in past two months and the change was almost instant as i went on big detox and have kept meat and dairy out of my diet.. So I am thinking/hoping that if I can reduce my T3 slowly my body will start making its own again..
I have read studies about using T3 to kick-start your thyroid where people slowly increase then decrease their dose over a fairly short period of time..
Because of internal nerve damage I do not show the symptoms of being over medicated like others do.. I went to see a thyroid specialist at Kings and at this point was taking 8x T3 a day and was not shaking and had only had one episode of racing heart (as I was increasing up to this dose because I didn't show signs of being ocermedicated I had assumed I had a resistance to the thyroid hormonee).. He explained that because of my autonomic neuropathy my body is incapable of showing the usual signs and if I had a resistance to the hormone my TSH would not switch off as it had so I needed to reduce my dose immediately.. I did and I felt better for taking less. So I do not feel over medicated but that is not to say I am not.. My resting pulse has been 106 for years and this is always put down to my nerve damage not being able to control my heart however it could be because in fact I AM over medicated..
I know I'm a complex case lol.. I can probably swing a monthly blood test to check my T4/T3/TSH and that way i can reduce really slowly and see if my body does actually start producing its own again..
But, I'm not too sure about this: if I had a resistance to the hormone my TSH would not switch off as it had so I needed to reduce my dose immediately..
If you had resistance to thyroid hormone, you would have high levels in your blood but still have symptoms of hypo. If you had high levels of thyroid hormone in your blood, your pituitary would stop producing TSH. Your pituitary only knows what's in the blood. It does not know what gets into the cells. So, I think your doctor was wrong on that point.
Tbf I wasn't sold at the time either but he scared me enough into reducing my dose and I felt better than I had before (the only symptom I was showing was more anxiety than usual) and I obviously do quite well on the dose I'm on..
I think I will try reducing to 12.5mcg 3x per day and in a month get them to do blood test and see where I'm at and how I feel.. I realise this may not even work and if it wasn't for my blood sugars I wouldn't even be trying!
ha yes, sorry Rhub4rb - understand your question and am trying to better understand exogenous T3 myself. I think many newbies may have questions around this kind of thing. don’t mean to hijack this thread!
greygoose, what i meant by kickstarter was in terms of improved health. when Rhub4rb tried levo previously her T4 went sky high but she still felt hypo, and taking T3 only helped. since then she has been getting better sleep and also done things to improve digestive issues. while there is no guarantee those things will improve conversion for any one person, research indicates both of those very well can. and that being less stressed/reducing cortisol, as can come with improved health, can itself improve thyroid functioning. ( i don’t have the more rigorous research i’ve read on this at hand right at the moment, but doing a quick google search here’s one article on this: healthline.com/health/hypot.... as such, it seems possible that although one may need a certain amount of T3 initially, over time as the body gets healthier and improves its own ability to convert, one may be able to swap some of that exogenous T3 out for exogenous T4. Or, if reducing cortisol and getting healthier through diet etc improves thyroid health overall to some degree, it seems possible one might be able to just reduce T3 (though in this case, per what you were saying in the previous post, It sounds like one would likely feel hyper remaining on the same dose of T3, and not continue to feel “well”). Is this not your understanding/experience greygoose?
(Rhub4rb, I’m not sure if you personally do or would have any interest in swapping some of your T3 for T4 or if you are feeling hyper, but i’m just trying to better understand how taking T3 works more generally.)
I hope that makes more sense. With my foggy mind it is quite difficult and tiresome these days to try to organize and articulate thoughts around even somewhat complex issues. If this doesn’t make sense i will come back to it another day in another post. thanks.
Do not apologise! Your train of thought mirrors mine! I am hoping I will be able to utilize the naturally produced hormone.. If I can get back to producing any then I should at minimum be able to reduce my T3 and hopefully get my blood sugars under control again coz right now they are definitely not and I can't think of any other reason! The lady below has had same experience with bs levels and T3 so I'm not alone!
i’m sure it’s not at all to the extent you have (i’m not diabetic), but i have had strange blood sugar issues myself and can empathize with how much that can impact hour to hour functioning, so i feel for you. please keep us updated on how it goes!
No, I really can't say it is my understanding - and certainly no my experience. But, it really does depend why she became hypo. And, that we rarely find out unless it's due to Hashi's. And, if it's due to Hashi's, things are very unlikely to improve in the way you describe.
But, if you have questions and want to learn more about T3, why not post your own question, and see what the 'experts' have to say.
ha thanks - you are one of the “experts” i wanted to hear from so thought i’d take advantage of your input here, but i will do that. i’m afraid i may be posting quite a few questions coming up
another related question i’ve had (definitely warrants a different thread for any serious discussion but i’ll just mention here) is why some people just feel fine even though they would technically be considered hypo by the their blood results - makes me wonder if people who feel unwell can do things to just start to feel better even if their blood levels indicate no change.
I think the answer to that is that we're all different. And, if someone feels unwell with their level of thyroid hormone, there are possibly some things they can do to make themselves feel better, like optimising nutrients or trying a gluten-free diet. But, in the end, they need to optimise their thyroid hormones for all sorts of reasons not just related to how they feel.
I had to give up my T3 only(75 mcg) as I found my blood sugar raised dramatically ( I am insulin dependent following sepsis and acute pancreatitis after routine bile duct procedure went wrong)...reversed the protocol and now on T3 c.35 mcg and 100 mcg levo., ( 25 T3 and 125 levo gave me greater pain/stiffness...I have fibromyalgia too). I was developing more tingling/vertigo, which might have been diabetic related , but perhaps also B12 deficiency...started b12 injections which have improved this and currently symptoms reappear about a week later, so likely b12 rather than diabetic neural problems. T3 and raised blood sugar seems to be known problem but rarely mentioned... perhaps only effects hypos who are diabetic( though suppose others don’t test their blood sugar like us!). I took my 75 mcg T3 in one dose in middle of the night.
Ita not just me then! I have pump and cgm and I can see my insulin requirements changing on an almost hourly basis and from day to day! I've been suffering horrible and difficult to treat hypos and then spikes up for no reason followed by more lows.. My hba1c went from 6.8 to 7.8 in a month and I've finally realised this could be the cause! My insulin sensitivity changing so rapidly has to be down to something I'm doing on a daily basis and I think I've finally worked it out!
Yes bet your diabetic control shows blood sugar variation even more so than mine (4 blood tests a day)! I have gone back to recording what I eat re carbs to try to work out what type is sending blood sugars high as it does seem different than pre T3...no longer so obvious, so sensitivity seems to have changed. Not had hba1c done recently, as trying to get it down myself ( don’t suppose surgery would know anything about T3 which I diy!). Perhaps i’ll see if blood sugars alter( more an an experiment) if I take 1/3 T3 pill at say 3 pm, and leave whole pill and levo.to 4am just to see if that seems to change blood sugar too. Are you under an endo...what does he/she make of what is going on?
I have endo he referred me to thyroid specialist who informed me I was taking too much T3 but because of my diabetic complications (internal nerve damage) I wasn't showing the usual symptoms of being ocermedicated so I went from 8x T3 a day to 2 and felt better so he was right.. He discharged me but if I need to I could go back.. He asked me about how it was affecting my blood sugars and at that point I hadn't noticed a difference but I was on my way out of his office when he asked that lol so I didn't ask him why..
I can get my gp to do thyroid tests which I will ask for in a month after reducing by 12.5mcg a day.. It will become obvious if my blood sugars become more stable.. Right now I'm on a roll or coaster (with no obvious reason as to why) constantly having to react to highs or lows..
I was last on 75 mcg T3 mid April,2019, and reduced dose slowly (1/4 pill at a time fortnightly or so...sometimes longer if doing other interventions too (eg CBD oil, b12 injections), then when down to 1.5 T3 25 mcg pills started to add levo.back 25 mcg at a time, and juggling between two. Seem to find 100 mcg levo and 11/2 to 11/3 T3 to be ok ( depends a bit on how accurate get it cut into half!)..... so will stay on that for 6 weeks to do bloods(Thyroid and hba1c). Hoping I am improving, but will soon add some adrenal support and creatine (last bloods showed my creatinine levels had reduced below range). Just have to be patient....
I cut out all meat and dairy (I didn't eat badly to begin with mainly home cooked veg).. And started eating handfuls of pumpkin seeds.. Took the following 2x per day: black walnut & wormwood capsulrs, barberry, clove, ginger, cayanne pepper.. Also 2x per day drank msm powder and Epsom salts (2tsps each). Ate lots of garlic and thyme with every meal..
Because I believe the T3 is messing with my blood sugar levels and I only feel really well since changing up my diet and think the various improvements in digestion and sleep etc may give my body to utilize the thyroid hormone it produces naturally..
It's not prescribed.. I was prescribed T4 for years and still symptomatic despite my T4 levels being very high (suggesting I was still producing my own T4).. I saw some relief from symptoms when I put myself on T3 but I am now convinced that it is seriously messing with my blood sugars.. And since I have sorted out my digestion and sleep issues I think I have to try to give my body a chance to work naturally..but I do know this will be a slow process and may not work..
I'm not medically qualified but I'd have thought if we had been diagnosed hypothyroid that it was due to us not providing sufficient T4 naturally, which converts to T3.
Your pituitary and thyroid glands
The pituitary is an endocrine gland located at the base of your brain that controls your endocrine system, including your thyroid. The pituitary affects the thyroid by producing a hormone called thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH).
TSH causes cells within your thyroid to make more T3 and T4 hormone.
If there is too much T4 in your bloodstream your pituitary produces less TSH, which causes your thyroid activity to slow. If there is not enough T4 hormone the pituitary increases the amount of TSH to help speed up your metabolism.
"Hypothyroidism caused by the inability of the thyroid gland to make T3 and T4 is called primary hypothyroidism. Worldwide, the most common cause of primary hypothyroidism is deficiency of the element iodine. In the US, the most common cause is destruction of the thyroid gland by the immune system, a condition called Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
Other causes of primary hypothyroidism include surgical removal of part or all of the thyroid gland, radioactive iodine used for treatment of hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid), radiation exposure to the neck, special x-ray dyes, and certain drugs such as lithium. Approximately 5-10% of women develop hypothyroidism after pregnancy (often referred to as “postpartum thyroiditis"). In some cases, the cause of hypothyroidism is unknown.
Since the thyroid gland is regulated by the pituitary gland and hypothalamus, disorders of these organs can cause the thyroid gland to produce too little thyroid hormone as well. This condition is called secondary hypothyroidism.
Not always so. Should convert to T3 but does not do so in everyone. Did not convert for me, this is why I had to be prescribed this by a professor. Or a consultant can prescribe has to be from a hospital to the best of my knowledge.
Hypothyroidism is used as a blanket description for anyone prescribed T4 however apparently there are few of us that actually produce too little thyroid hormone the majority have a problem with the conversion or the uptake..
I have never had low levels of T4 or T3 in fact when prescribed T4 my levels were toxic even though I was showing severe hypo symptoms so I can only presume my problem is possibly with the conversion but more likely with the uptake.. Reducing my T3 is not something I'm undertaking lightly but I'm hoping with improved digestion and overall health I can at the very least swap some out for T4 as my bloody blood sugars are all over the show and I'm really suffering so got to try!
I have a family history of thyroid problems and was symptomatic but yes I never had low T4 but I was convinced this was the problem and thyroxine would sort me out.. So I think they eventually wrote me the prescription to shut me up..
Things never really improved.. The T3 initially helped but the good effects seemed to wear off.. I thought I had a pretty healthy diet before but when I went almost completely plant based (well I did initially I've been slipping last few weeks and can feel it) I was up and awake at 7.30 every morning for 6 weeks.. Normally if I have 2 early hospital appointments in a row I would be bedridden for a week.. I can't really remember much about pre teen but I remember my parents used to have to drag me out of bed on Xmas day when every other kid jn the country is up at 5am..
So yeah I talked them into giving it to me.. Noone had any alternative options for me.. The health care professionals are trained about which pills to hand out not diet they have no clue..
As well as testing TSH (at the earliest possible, fasting - you can drink water) - they should give us a Full Thyroid Function Test initially - which is:-
TSH, T4, T3, Free T4, Free T3 and thyroid antibodies.
Yes I had this done recently it was as expected (zero T4 & TSH was 0.01).. I don't know my T3 level but had taken double the dose the night before by accident and taken my dose that morning so was expecting them to say it was sky high but I had a voicemail from the endo who did tests saying my T3 was a little elevated and he recommended reducing from 25mcg 2x per day to 20mcg 2x per day so it can't have been all that high..
I am starting today on 6.25 less per day and will reduce again in a fortnight then in a month I will ask for new tests to be done and see what's happening.. I have also ordered iodine and tyrosine and already have the other supplements for thyroid..
After taking T3 when I was a bodybuilder, it took over 2 years of feeling very ill to be able to function again without it, and I was never really right again - put on over 3 stone and kept passing out - so tired! After nearly 10 years I lost the weight, but was nearly always tired and uninterested in life. Now back on T3 and OK again.
Can you remember how slowly? Presumably your body had also stopped making any T4 so you would've been in same boat as I'm in now.. I'm going to start supplementing with iodine and tyrosine to help my thyroid start producing again and really got to get back on totally plant based diet..I've been house for my sister and been eating (then replacing then eating the replacement) all kinds of bad stuff.. Apparently she has willpower or she'd be the size of a house lol
Not really - it was 1989. I was only on a full dose for about 4 weeks and took about half that to build up to the dose and so probably 2 or 3 weeks to come back down
I've read about a protocol where people do exactly that to boost their thyroid function.. There must have been other things going on? Like other hormones or anything you were taking? Why did you do it (the T3) out of interest, what results were you hoping for?
Bodybuilders take T3 to get cut for a show. In the past. I'd never had any problems with fat loss before a competition but that year I did (I'd also had a head injury and I now have central hypo so could be connected) - I was probably already becoming hypo. It worked until I stopped taking it.
And therefore it makes no sense in the UK to stop the supply of this drug, I fear for the people who have no chance of this drug being given by their endocrinologist. Certainly I would have to doubt any GP would dare prescribe it these days.
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in terms of the conversion, if she is now feeling better and possibly converting better but still having some issues, would it be possible that experimenting with reducing T3 and upping her T4 could be another option? I guess I’m wondering if, for some, exogenous T3 can sometimes work as a kickstarter but then be switched back out for T4 to some degree once the body is healthier. Of course if the person is genetically a poor converter that wouldn’t be the case, but if poor conversion is due to some degree to gut or other improvable health issues, it seems possible. am i missing something? thanks!
Should I see my gp or an endo or who? 
I have relapsed after coming off B&R and I am seeing my Endo this afternoon :(
Should I put my t3 back up.
How can my t4 be 5.20 when I am on t3 only?
