Interesting article to reverse hashimoto disease

[ali2341]

Was looking into hashi and found that metformin can reverse this,

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

thoughts ?

[Hunny_BEE]

Very interesting! I keep hearing about all the potential for off-label usage and it looks so promising. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[HashiFedUp]

If it works, the NHS will find a way to justify not providing it! Sorry i’m so sceptical 🫤

[Lalatoot]

It doesn't say it reverses hashis. The scientists reduced the severity of hashis attacks. They also add that the study is limited because it was only done on mice.

Don't forget that even if by magic a person stopped having hashis, the damage caused to the thyroid by previous attacks would not reverse and they would still have a reduced and damaged thyroid that would most likely require them to take oral thyroid hormones.

[mistydog in reply to Lalatoot]

Exactly, they don't grow back

[Ukie]

“mice were grabbed and their abdomens were gently massaged to stimulate defecation”. If they made these mice hypo, I’m amazed it was that easy! I wish it was that easy for humans!

[bookish in reply to Ukie]

That made me chuckle! But stroking in a circle from bottom right (lower quadrant), up, across under boobs, down LHS and back to start does help - as does tapping on centre top of head and behind ears (stimulates vagus). That and magnesium usually do the trick for me!

[Wired123 in reply to bookish]

Interesting massage technique, what exactly does it help for and do you have any links to more info please?

[bookish in reply to Wired123]

Hi, Ukie's message was talking of stimulating defecation in mice by abdominal massage, so that was my suggestion to assist in people with bowel movement difficulties - hypo or otherwise! Tapping on top of head is a tapping point in EFT (emotional freedom technique - search Nick or Jessica Ortner if interested) and vagus stimulation touches on some of the same points. The ear area, within ear or around ear seems to work well for me, relaxes me, like pulling gently down on lobes of ears can get you from sympathetic (fight or flight) to parasympathetic (rest and digest) quickly. You should feel the saliva appear in your mouth as you do this. Singing, humming, gargling enthusiastically enough to make your eyes water, or coffee enemas (!) are all vagus activation suggestions by Datis Kharrazian for example drknews.com/4-vagus-exercis... Cheers

[Wired123 in reply to bookish]

Thanks I’ll definitely try this, hypo constipation is sadly a common thing!

[bookish in reply to Wired123]

Hope it helps.

[Ukie in reply to bookish]

Thanks bookish. I’ve heard of the massage technique before, and it does help. I had to read it again to make sure I’d correctly read tapping on the top of the head! I’ll give it a try 🙂

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

I think an obvious question is: What has been the experience of members who take metformin?

Has it had any impact on their thyroid health? Have they definitely seen antibodies reduce? Has their thyroid appeared more able to produce thyroid hormone?

Obviously, intraperitoneal injections are unlikely to have been done! But at the anecdotal level, seems reasonable to consider experiences.

[bookish in reply to helvella]

As an aside, are we unable to mention N-acetyl cysteine on the forum? I just mentioned it in a reply (after berberine) as an abbreviation, and the post failed. Thanks

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to bookish]

There have been many technical issues recently. Most days I get some 502 and/or 504 errors. And sometimes a page just seems to become totally unresponsive.

There are many posts which mention N-acetyl cysteine.

We always suggest that members consider writing their posts in a word processor or text editor so that, if they do fail to post, they don't lose everything.

Obviously, we also appreciate abbreviations and acronyms being explained. No-one can be expected to keep them all in their heads. But we almost all use them at times.

[bookish in reply to helvella]

Thank you. I did copy it so didn't lose anything, just took NAC out, reposted and it worked so I wondered. Cheers

[Sparklingsunshine]

Hi

Until the reults are replicated in humans I would be very wary, mice aren't people, there have been thousands of initially promising trials on mice, rats etc that have failed to live up to anything once they get to human beings.

[bookish]

I'd be a bit concerned that metformin use may affect levels of CoQ10, B12 and folate. If it is helping because so many of us have poor blood sugar control then perhaps berberine etc and if as indicated, it is potentially immunomodulating then there are other known supports such as Vit D & glutathione. But it will be interesting to see how things develop, and as helvella says, forum members' experiences thus far.

[Wired123]

I wonder if metformin treatment can prevent Hashi’s in people who have a family history (like me). Might be worth a clinical trial on high risk individuals and seeing if Metformin can prevent the attack on the thyroid in the first place.

Of course Metformin treatment isn’t entirely risk free and has side effects too:

[Evej13]

Just a caution. There are studies that show metformin has an effect on thyroid.

joe.bioscientifica.com/view...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

cmaj.ca/content/186/15/1138

[dtate2016]

Very interesting article and did you notice how they induced the otherwise healthy mice to have Hashimoto’s thyroiditis? They fed them iodine water. Repeat for emphasis iodine water. What if the mice had the iodine water removed? With the Hashimoto’s reverse ? Would they need metformin? The science is becoming more and more prolific folks. Somehow no matter where you live in the world iodine is becoming more prevalent in our diet. I know the source(s) in the US and have limited my intake of iodine (primarily by removing Iodized salt from the table and from cooking ) and have been free of any need for thyroid hormone replacement for almost 2 years now. Some homeopathic doctors are reporting that 75% of their patients that remove iodine (excess iodine) from their diet heal Hashimotos - again when they reduce iodine.

Don’t hear eliminate iodine. We must have iodine yes yes yes. But an overabundance of iodine, as this study indicates, contributes to the manifestation of thyroiditis Hashimoto’s.

Keep counting the studies folks. Iodine.

[tattybogle in reply to dtate2016]

"no matter where you live in the world iodine is becoming more prevalent in our diet. I know the source(s) in the US and have limited my intake of iodine (primarily by removing Iodized salt from the table and from cooking ) "

Stopping the 'excess' iodine from iodised salt makes sense for those of you in US , but has 'excess' iodine really become more prevalent in the UK diet... how ?

Here in the UK you have to go out of your way to find any iodized salt , it is available , but it's fairly uncommon to find it in anyone's pantry ... honestly i've not seen a tub of Cerebos in anyone's kitchen since about 1977.

so unless we've all started eating loads of seaweed .?.. (unlikely, since the only 'seaweed' most people in UK eat come's with their chinese takeaway and is usually cabbage fried in soy sauce not actual seaweed) ...... you do have to wonder where the 'excess' is coming from compared to diets of previous generations .

What 's changed ? multivitamins with it in ?

i never took pregnancy vitamins, or mulitvitamins, or any other supplement that had iodine 'added' ( but i still got autoimmune hypothyroidism following a pregnancy) .....and honestly ,most people i know don't routinely have anything more than a bottle of vitamin C tablets by their kettle for the winter,

As for natural food sources of iodine, i can't see where i eat any more iodine than my parents or grandparents did ?

so that just leaves 'processed' food ...... is iodised salt used in it? , or iodine added to it? ..... i don't know , i'll have to read the labels more often to find out.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to tattybogle]

The move away from dairy will also most likely have reduced iodine intake. Though this will vary by individual and by product(s) consumed.

(In years past, even consuming organic milk and dairy reduced iodine intake. But more recently, the husbandry techniques have resulted in iodine levels similar to those of non-organic dairy products.)

Some, but not all, processed foods from Germany and Poland are manufactured with iodised salt. That might have had a small effect.

And there has been a marked change in cherries - glacé cherries used usually to be dyed with erythrosine - a red dye compound with a very high iodine content. I think most now use other dyes. Erythrosine is still used in some medicines.