Doubt many will be surprised by the main observation. Nonetheless quite interesting.
How getting the right GP turns out to be a matter of life and death
Torsten Bell
A study in Norway found that the better the doctor the better their patients’ chances of living longer
If you manage to get an NHS appointment these days you probably feel a bit smug. My wife had one yesterday, although any reassurance about the NHS’s health from the existence of the appointment was slightly undermined by it taking place in a Portakabin behind a Screwfix car park.
Rest of (short) article and below the line comments freely available from this link:
If you’re over 55 ‘….increase in GP quality is associated with a 12 percentage point decline in risk of death over two years’
I was shocked and then I thought about how many I have been failed by. Then I thought about a few people I knew that are no longer with us because although they had sort medical opinion for some shocking symptoms, they simply weren’t diagnosed in time.
I suppose it’s a bit like any profession in the respect that you have the talented, the conscientious, the knowledgeable and you have the ones who are simply there for the money and this not actually being any job, comes with much responsibility. If you’re not up to it, recognise that and move along please!!
Terribly depressing but unfortunately true. My husband spent ten days in hospital on an IV drip because the completely new doctors at our surgery who we had never seen - still haven’t and never will because we left that practice when they one of them told me my fractured sacrum was ‘probably a touch of osteoarthritis’ and who didn’t know the first thing about him misdiagnosed a liver, gall bladder and pancreas infection as ‘a reaction to your covid vaccination, take some antihistamine’ the one I spoke to about my sacrum hadn’t seen and didn’t know me either. My dealings with the GP were unlikely to have killed me (I think) but my husband was on the verge of sepsis and his hospital doctors were very worried about him.
He’s fine thank you but he’s now one of the X Million people who are waiting to have an operation. They wanted him to have it before he got much older - that was over a year ago. He has strict instructions that if he has any problem to go straight to A&E.Our neighbour who is an anaesthetist at the same hospital has given up asking if he has a date yet.
That would have been a very serious worry for you. I think the majority of people when they consult with a doctor expect them to be knowledgeable.
Our instincts tells us that we may need more or better advice but sometimes it is too late ie. my mother had Pernicious Anaemia and had regular B12 injections, until her GP told her that she needed no more because her blood test was fine now. Due to that advice she developed stomach cancer. Awful......
So sorry your Mum was a victim of this. My Mum developed esophageal cancer after lifelong PA. GP's - after she had not been able to swallow all but packet soup for 18 months, told her to chew it 37 times, & refused a biopsy till it was too late!Why are these monsters still not accountable?
I'm sorry about your mother's experience also. It is awful to read what can happen to patients when they are at their most vulnerable.
The whole family has cause to worry about their relatives and we did rely upon them being given the 'right diagnosis' and treatment.
I think a number of people on this forum would want an answer to your query as many doctors do seem unknowledgeable about a number of illnesses (common ones).
I had to diagnose myself as hypo and by that time TSH was 100 and GP phoned to state I had no problems!
One day after a blood test GP phoned to tell me that "TSH is too low" - T4 too low - T3 too high.
Me: 'Yes doctor - my TSH is low because I take T3 only. T3 is high because I take T3 and T4 is low because I take none. GP then states 'but T4 converts to T3. "No doctor - it is the other way around"/
It would appear that many GPs don't have sufficient knowledge of clinical symptoms their patients could have, whereas our 'old fashioned GPs' knew all clinical symptoms. They could diagnose a patient who had a dysfunctional thyroid gland without blood tests and prescribe NDTs (natural dessicated thyroid hormones from 1892 onwards) but these (I believe) were withdrawn for a while but I hope they can now be prescribed.)
Then we had problems initiated by those 'at the top of the tree' when they stopped providing T3 (now reinstated and NDTs (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) which I hope they've reinstated.
It sometimes seems like a very difficult and long journey to be diagnosed then for us to understand what a particular diagnosis means for the patients. I think thousands may not realise at first that we now have 'lifelong' autoimmune disease(s).
It's awful what they did to you, very kind of you to warn other potential victims 👍 Ignorance & unaccountability is so ingrained now, that it may actually be safer to stay away from Dr's.I have been ignoring a worsening chronic cough for many months now, but there is no way I'm going near any Dr's, Out of 10 or so out of range blood serum flags, the only one they discuss is the TSH! why would I pay several days of income to a GP to discuss that?
Same happened to my father never bothered his gp for years then he started to loose his voice periodically, his job required talking a lot on the phone so his boss urged him to see his gp.. He did to be told he had laryngitis.. This lasted 8 months back and forth to gp.. It was actually throat cancer which eventually spread to his lung he died at 64 years of age... I could have smacked his gp in the face.. Because its not like he was ignoring his symptoms he was seeing the flipin gp.. They make me puke.. And if that wasn't bad enough the same gp couldn't diagnose my mam he keep saying she'd hurt her foot because it was limp.. Turns out she had moto neurons she died 12 months after diagnosis 😠😠 and that gp is still practicing 🤮
Birkie, My heart breaks for what you & your family have been put through 😢. I feel sure that the cruel way you were orphaned triggered your thyrotoxicosis & or the Colitis & primary hyperparathyroidism.
You know something I always thought that jenny about my illnesses I developed after the death of both my parents, I can't say it didn't take a toll as I'm sure it did with you and I'm so sorry for your loss.. But I did a very silly thing in the beginning by doing exactly what my parents did.. Listened to much to the gp.. It was when I developed the hyperthyroidism symptoms before diagnosis it took my surgery 12 months to diagnose me.. I went ballistic with my surgery when I eventually got diagnosed asking how they could have possible miss this condition for 12 months!! Nothing from them not even an apology, just full thyroidectomy 😤 so after struggling with them I turned to this site and with its help I am now classed as a nuisance at my surgery.. But quite frankly.. I don't give a dam.. Because I will not give up and will always question the so called professionals about my health.. Ok I don't get to far with them but I'm still here giving them hell..... They honestly hate me coming in to the surgery I can see it in the receptionists eyes.. 😄😄😄
Trust me it is as frequent in the U.S.A. . The only people who seem to get it is people who have been affected. Sadly it is hard to get support cause no one wants to get sued or lose their job for going against "protocols" even when they a dead wrong . It is near impossible to get people to believe you just want answers and to save your life. Do hope all has improved.
I suppose it’s reached the stage where a lot of doctors young ones especially must be feeling overwhelmed, plus they are at the mercy of their consultant.
My friends daughter has just come to the end of her first hospital post and it’s very tough for her, I hadn’t realised that once you are on a particular track in medicine it is almost impossible to change direction.
Also there is so much uncertainty about where they will be sent to next. This girl is being sent to another hospital miles away from her present post which makes it very, very difficult for her to plan or even to buy a house.
She knows of one of her daughter’s friends after years of training has just left to become a pilot because there was no chance of him getting into his chosen field.
I know I grumble about them but for some doctors life in the NHS is tough.
There’s no excuse though for established consultants to be dismissive or even rude to their patients as seems to be happening.
I told one of the original GPs during covid that I thought I’d developed CRPS when the cast came off my broken wrist and she was fine with that - she must have known I’d consulted Dr Google but she had known me for a long time - she said she couldn’t refer me for the physio I needed because of covid but she prescribed pregabalin which is something that is prescribed for CRPS unfortunately it really messed with my head.
The sacrum - well that was one of the new bunch - her bio said something about her ‘liking to help elderly people’ - not sure I’d agree with that.
I said that’s my lower back felt as if someone had whacked me over the sacrum with an iron bar, that was all - I hadn’t even thought it might be fractured although I did ask to be sent for an x-ray - she said the hospital was too busy! I didn’t say any more than that and I hadn’t even consulted Dr Google for that.
Knowing what I know now after paying for an MRI a regular x-ray would have probably been a waste of time, but I don’t think that’s why she refused to send me.
That’s interesting do you mind if I ask how did they treat your son? What age was he roughly - I was 71 when I broke my wrist and what part of his body did it affect? I wonder if treatment depends on age? Has your son’s CRPS gone now?
I spoke to the doctor and said I was pretty sure I had developed CRPS (hand felt like someone had transplanted a giant’s hand onto my wrist, was painful, sweaty, a weird purple colour, hairy - as the physio said I had practically every symptom going for CRPS) and could I be referred for physiotherapy - from what I had read for best results physio needs to be started as soon as possible.
This all happened to me just as we went into the first covid lockdown. The answer was ‘No’ and when I asked I was told there was no chance of even being put on a waiting list for physio either but she would prescribe Lyrica which is pregabalin. All private physio had closed down too and I felt frantically worried.
As it happened the osteoporosis physiotherapist phoned and asked how my broken wrist was coming along. I told her that my wrist was fine but my hand was a disaster and I was pretty sure I had CRPS but my GP wasn’t willing to refer me for physio, that I had been prescribed Lyrica but that had really messed with my head and I had stopped.
The osteoporosis physio was amazing, she got me started with links to desensitisation treatment and a sent me links to an app and all sorts of ideas I could do myself and joy of joys got me a Zoom type consultation with the hand therapist.
The hand therapist suggested pregabalin, I said I’d already tried that etc and she suggested I try gabapentin which I did but I really didn’t get on with it either so it was physio alone from then on. I sent photos of my hand etc, she sent me splints, more exercise ideas etc and monitored how things were and eventually things got better thank goodness.
Clearly I was not treated by the UK’s leading specialist in CRPS. But here’s part of what it says on the NHS site about treating CRPS so in the end no thanks to my GP - although her choice of drug was obviously acceptable, I just couldn’t take it - I did get better
“Anticonvulsants are usually used to treat epilepsy, but have also been found to be useful for treating nerve pain.
Gabapentin and pregabalin are the most widely used anticonvulsants for treating CRPS.”
Here in the U.S.A. health care is governed by Health Ins. Co. and doctors treat symptoms and diagnosis is a lost art. There are "Protocols" and essentially standing orders for symptoms which ensures prescriptions will be written and "Problem Lists" grow which is sign to the Insurance Companies they can raise rates. Not tons of actually healthy people in U.S.A. some look deceptively healthy , many others look anorexic , and others lots of others look like the "Michelleann Tire Guy " all bloated and fat. It is a hot mess ! It is my observed opinion!
We also know that it isn’t just general practice where quality and competence is lacking.
I wonder whether the culture of legality in respect of responsibility doesn’t help. The medical profession stick to their guidelines and aren’t forward thinking because they can be penalised if they are. So they stick to convention in order to be defended by their employer.
It must be easy for them to go into this line of work with hopes and dreams of helping people but I bet it doesnt take long of being told what they can and can’t do for that to wane.
It wasn't until I moved to France and paid my first visit to my GP that I experienced a 45 minute appointment also my height and weight measured and to my amazement my BP was taken in both arms which I never knew about before. I then had my knees knocked for reflex.Plus lots more, this was back in 2015. We have a funeral today in the UK my husbands cousin. He was waiting for a heart valve replacement that never happened and sadly died two weeks ago still waiting for treatment.
I am really very sorry for the whole family, now coming to terms with the loss of a member due to too long a wait for a heart valve replacement. I'm sure many members will also be sad to read what could have been a successful operation.
My GP gets good reviews though I do not understand why. He dismissed my concerns about symptoms, firstly for laryngeal cancer then, 3 years later, for breast cancer. The early signs of laryngeal cancer was a constant cough which he dismissed as nothing. With the breast cancer I pointed out 2 painful areas - he said they were nothing and the inexplicable tiredness was depression. Not so. The breast cancer was in those two painful areas. No apologies, nothing. He admits he knows nothing about the thyroid. I could go on and on as he has missed other illnesses also.
Why do I stay at that practice? My pharmacist said it is the best in the area.
I now take responsibility for my own health and search for the best available Consultants - the private GPs I have tried seemed little better and remind me of the grovelling Uriah Heep).
I have BUPA to help pay and give me some peace of mind. I have had private health insurance since I was 16 - it is encouraged in Australia, is quarter the price it is here in the UK and the Government continues to make a tax deductible contribution. Here it is outrageously expensive and offers less, but I feel I have little choice.
Private health care is ridiculously expensive in the U.K. . We used to have private health care - we paid in for years and never used it then the first and only time I wanted to go see a private consultant I was told no - they didn’t deal with teeth.
Now I thought it was a sinus problem and without seeing anyone how could they know the problem was with my teeth - it wasn’t in the end - my sinuses give me toothache.
I suppose it was unfortunate that I asked my dentist to refer me but hey I kept going between the dentist and the doctor.
In the end I paid for a private consultation and x-rays.
Following that I told them where to stick their private medicine - more politely than that though.
Unfortunately a few years later I developed Graves, then inflammatory arthritis and now back problems and osteoporosis. I should probably just have gritted my teeth and carried on with the private health - I could have used them now but hey ho, too late now.
It’s very hard to believe a doctor who could miss two cancers plus other illnesses and open.y admits that he ‘knows nothing about thyroid’ can possibly be the best in the area. Are you sure the pharmacist isn’t one of his relatives????
My late husband was poisoned by cheap 'imported from UK '(banned by all other countries) drugs - for a condition that he never had aka rheumatoid arthritis. (He had iatrongenic lupus), which led to renal failure. His fortnightly bloods were never tested, as I discovered after his death notice appeared. I then got a phone call from a medic working in pathology who told me these facts. On the day he died the emergency medic screamed in my face that he had diabetes ( as though I was responsible). The hospital & GP had refused a lung drain, or antibiotics, after he caught pneumonia from a new equally unsuitable drug which gave him fibrosing alveolitis.These quacks stick together. Beware.
In my medical records - the GP that did not come when called, till many hours later to see Hubby when he went into coma, after sustained medical neglect & medical harm, & refused antibiotics & lung drain - wrote in my (recently acquired & much redacted, & falsified medical records) that I had taken my husband off life support, and that I felt guilty! in fact we were never given the option of life support. Hubby was euthanized. GP came out to mock me afterwards, comparing Hubby to a rusty banger Told me "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" & offered me sleeping pills, knowing that Hubby & I did not approve of sleepers. He then sent a massive bill...
I can't complain as I don't live in the UK. But they know that I know, because as I recently discovered from records, I apparently let slip something about Hubby's death when I went for "bereavement counselling". Now I know why I have been persecuted, maligned, & denied medical treatment & truth all these years.
Your post about your husband's lack of care is awful and we have to stand back if we're in the hospital hoping that he will get the proper care with the appropriate medication. I'm sorry the lack of care caused his demise.
Your quote i.e. "The hospital & GP had refused a lung drain, or antibiotics, after he caught pneumonia from a new equally unsuitable drug which gave him fibrosing alveolitis." must have been awful for you to watch what was going on and left to grieve the consequences that caused his death.
I looked after my Husband at home, I had sole care of him. Dr's caused his renal failure, high BP, pericarditis, left ventricular failure & pneumonia. He was in a lot of pain from angina, & whenever he asked me to get him into hospital - I ensured that a locum came out & called an ambulance to take him there.
I even looked after him whenever he was in hospital, (as the nurses completely ignored him), which was typically for 2 days, they threw him out each time on a Friday. On the day he died, the GP that made his £££ from taking his blood each fortnight (never analysed), & ignored him eventually came, because I had called an ambulance. That GP ( the one that lied in my records that I called him out to see me after Hubby died - because I allegedly "felt guilty for removing his life support"he smirked at me & suggested that I apply for a carers allowance as my Hubby lay dying! I also looked after my Mum at the same time, she had all kinds of dementia, but no one ever offered me a carers allowance, we just lived from hand to mouth on Hubby's sick pay.
The ambulance had no trouble getting through to me on the phone. But whenever Dr's or nurses tried to phone when he was in hospital, or even if he was home, the phone never worked, & they would tell Hubby that I "must be out shopping". I spent £1000's proving that I loved him, even avoiding a will & life insurance, to prove that I didn't care about £. 1 phone call that came after his death was from a woman who had lent a camera to a conman posing as a hardwood conservatory provider. The conman tried to con the woman into buying from him, she didn't, but he had given her our #. She wanted me to phone police, but when I did, they told me I was a stupid cow for parting with the £.
Prior to that phone call, Dr & nurses had told me that the only way I could keep the water from his lungs was to get him outside & moving/standing, but he was very cold weak & unsteady, so we looked in Mum's local rag at adverts for hardwood conservatories, & he asked that I get a salesman round. It was obvious to me that this was a conman. I asked Hubby if he wanted me to cancel the cheque, he said no, & the way he looked at me suggested that he was being influenced by Dr's & nurses to not trust my concerns for him, as his brain was affected by his many illnesses, I decided to let the £ go, as I was afraid that he would find out if I cancelled the cheque, & be alienated. I still hoped he would recover too. Also, I suspected he was dying, & didn't want his last thought to be that I did not care for him, as everyone else had abandoned him. We were never told that he had multiple organ failure, though it's in my medical records.
A few months before he died, I got the Dr's to send us to Guys hospital for the day, for a stent? for dialysis, there was no wheelchair waiting for him at the airport. (we had to hire one).When we got to airport there was no taxi. We had some cash. A taxi took us all round the houses to hospital & took every penny we had. When we got there, the hospital had not been informed to expect us. There was no accommodation for me, but I found a disused nurses room at "the counting house". The sink there was blocked.
They gave him a bed, but we were stuck there for 10 days, as the medical records never arrived. Fortunately I found an old bank card with a small amount of £ still in it, so walked from Southwark to Lewisham each day to buy cheap stale sandwiches to eat - B4 card went over to unauthorised overdraught charges. My shoes wore out, handbag strap broke.
The Dr's never put a stent in, but shoved a tube in his shoulder, so he had a painful open wound, ready for dialysis on his return to 'sunny' Jersey. Dr's joked about the Jersey "pigeon post"(which never did arrive). Nurses knocked over his glass of water every time. He was fed Maxijul, which probably fed the (diabetes that I was not told about). The whole thing was treated as one big joke. We had to arrange for transport back, via train + plane, as no one helped us. I cannot imagine why the nurses were so hostile, Hubby was lovely. He got dialysis on our return, - without a stent. We had to fight every step of the way for every inch of his remaining life.
These medics take no account of a patients will to live, but see a patient as a burden, & the carers as being in the way of euthanasia, which they see as their right, the same as putting down a sick dog or cat. We are not animals, but that is how we are seen.
I write this ramble not as a pity party, but as a warning. The UK, where most on here live, is ( & has long been well on the way to being ) like a crown dependency when it comes to health, ( among other things ). Human rights do not exist. I don't want anyone to be under any illusions, & make the same mistakes as I did. Life is hard enough.
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