Hi Lovely women with hypothyroidism.
How do you know you are premenopausal vs your thyroid medicine not working?
What are the symptoms? Other than irregular periods (I have a mirena so don’t know)
Thank you!
Is it Menopause or hypothyroidism?: Hi Lovely... - Thyroid UK
Is it Menopause or hypothyroidism?
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PixieElv
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109 Replies
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I'm in the same boat at the minute trying to sort out if it's my thyroid or if I'm perimenopauseal. Look up Dr Louise newson
Loads of info there
It’s hard, isn’t it?
It really is. I've been so sick since February and going round in circles
The Mirena coil makes it harder to tell. But really it's biggest indicator is age and mood. If you find you have more headaches than you used to do, if you snap at family, or cry on your own over silly things. If you find you can't concentrate on things very well, have lost interest in former hobbies, can't be bothered to go out or talk to friends, suffer sudden bouts of anxiety and upset, get strange internal buzzing... Those are all symptoms of peri. Your hormones are roller-coastering at that point.
Once you reach 40 you are certainly peri. Often from 35. Once you reach 45 you don't even need a blood test to diagnose, just symptoms list. As someone above said, look up Dr Louise Newson, balance-menopause.co.uk (or might be .com). The web site is full of valuable information and podcasts etc. It's the best place for info. You can download the free balance app and let it help you track things.
Menopause gave me hypothyroidism so I can only imagine the damage it can do to someone already hypothyroid first.
PixieElv
I find it very difficult to tell but I would say that after paying through the nose at the Louise Newsome clinic and trying hrt which just made me 100 times worse, the best thing someone said to me was to get your thyroid as right as you can first and then deal with sex hormones. They told me the menopause wouldn’t feel so bad once my levels were better. I think they were right. I’m not optimal yet but am improved.
I notice you have only been on NDT a month and wonder if the symptoms your feeling are being exacerbated by it just being a bit too early for you levels to have stabilised? You could wait, do a blood test and see where your at then. Just a suggestion that you’ve probably already thought of. It’s difficult to be patient when you feel pants.
Ah thank you. Your answer made me feel better. You are of course right. I will wait another 4 weeks 😊
I doubt it’s made you feel better and I really do sympathise. The endless waiting is so frustrating. But, we all know it can’t be rushed and if you do you’ll feel rubbish for longer - that’s where I’m at 🙄. Rushed a combo treatment last year, added hrt now back to the start. Well I’m off the blocks now but still got a few doses to try yet. I wish you all the very best with getting to feel better x.
It is so hard…. but you will feel better with time. Just seems forever… but, you will prevail! All the best!!!
Probably meant for PixieElv but I’ll take it 🤣
It’s good to hear from other women and know you’re not alone. Thank you
Yes its a tedious process for sureJust to say as older but under new guidelines I’ve taken hrt patches which are O SO GOOD for me, a switch that went out has come back on and for me it’s also about bone health, ( see late Prof John Studd blog). but I still have some hypo and my levels have worsened since the hrt patch,
Importantly now reading that Hrt can affect the thyroid med absorptions , so to be aware of this as this has apparently happened to me. Not that it can’t be adjusted accordingly.
My horrid tinitus has already ‘softened’ with hrt and my joints are so much easier already so it’s the way to go for me
But I will say I’m sure I’ve had hypo implications like a Hashi swings as I lost my weight effortlessly on 2 ocassion and felt so well, this around childbirth and at some point perimenopausal. can see it all now , hindsight aye
…I couldnt say though generally speaking if reaching thyroid balance first is more important than sorting Hrt first as I read comments here in the past that reflect both ways 🤔 but lots of good luck on journey to bear in mind hrt affects thyroid med absorbtion.
- thought I was going mad with the awful anxiety I had for yrs and hrt was not given during this time at my docs! Anti depressents or just get on with it really
Some suffer more cognitively I didn’t have flashes & sweats and I believe this is to do with always having had slow metabolic maybe also the autoimmune side of things 🤔
Thank you for sharing, it’s crazy how we women suffer.
Adding unecessarily 😁😂 I’m joining those that query would men? Honestly if they were struggling to work etc lololol
Yes thanks all. Great place here. Thankyou founder. I’m not sure who tbh?Think there’s Healthunlocked too for Meno🤔
Bone Health! News to me, thanks.
Sorry. How do you mean 
Hi PixieElv
I’ve been suffering recently, symptoms that relate to thyroid and also what I believe is peri menopause.
I’ve been on thyroid medication for years now NDT and Levo. However, as said (I’ve just popped a post on this forum) I’ve been suffering again.
I’ve just done a thyroid blood test and I can see straight away what I need to do. I need to increase my thyroid medication.
Lots of symptoms (now all though) can relate to both menopause and thyroid, so as someone has already advised see if you can get your thyroid levels optimal as possible.
I know this forum will support you and advise you well as this forum helped me get my life back with all the advice.
Best wishes & good luck.
Peanut31
I definitely have experience with this! I had a hysterectomy at 42 and have dealt with hormone issues for the last 16 years. I will hit a good patch for a while and then the wheels seem to fall off. I am trying to get the wheels back on right now. I know I need adequate amounts of estrogen or I am an emotional, anxious mess. I used the pill form for years with no problem and now I don't seem to absorb them. I have tried patches and they give me a rush for a day and then nothing. I tried the gel form and I did not absorb it. I started the Femring 13 days ago, so too early to see how that works. Some symptoms seem a little better, but still don't feel great. I saw a new GYN and she likes it because it is a consistent doze all the time. I am also on a little testosterone and I think it helps with brain fog. I am glad I don't need progesterone because it makes me feel really bad.
I was on NTD and got overdosed. I stopped it for a while and just started back 3 days ago, so I have a lot going on in my body right now and I feel pretty miserable. Hopefully it all comes together over the next few weeks.
Thank you for mentioning progesterone! I , too, apply a very low dose of testosterone … & could not take progesterone… nor did i like estrogen..… due to the negative side effects despite all the positives you read!
Can I ask, how testosterone has helped you do you think?
Good question. I like to think it has helped w energy, weight… etc.. However, it was truly adding significant amt of T3 to my daily meds that has been the real game changer for the good!!! However, I cannot rule out testosterone as being instrumental.
Very interesting. Thank you 😊
Yes!Finding for me it’s about the right oneI saw late Prof Studd who gave gel then had the progesterone week
Same as you, felt AWFUL with progest and then period 🤦♀️
But combi patch combined is working well. thank G
That sounds horrible! I’m sorry that you are suffering so much. Mine is mainly brain fog and hot flushes. Oh and occasionally rages 😂
I definitely relate to the hot flushes. The night sweats mainly. I can say I am 99% sure mine are thyroid related. Too high t3 and I get them and too loo t4 and I get them. I’ve had them for 20 years so I was always pretty sure they weren’t peri.
As for the rages… that’s pmt for me. Who’d be a woman. Next time I’m coming back as a dog! Lol.
I vote for cat 😂 but definitely a furry animal
Seriously, I wonder if mine could be T3/T4 related with NDT?
I feel as good as I have done for ages on NDT, lost weight, more energy etc. So I definitely take that!
Really? Oh that’s excellent so things are improving for you? What I wouldn’t give to shift some weight!! I am really pleased for you for the benefits so far. Maybe you’ll find it just needs a tweak when you get your next results? 🤞🏻 Do you mind if I ask what NDT you take? Is it on prescription?
Lol to cat. I was just thinking of some little old dear’s highly spoilt little dog. That’s what I want to be 🤣
I get Efra on private prescription from my Endo. And yes it has made a big difference. I can actually stay awake all day! 😂 no more catnaps (back to the furry animal comparison) 😉
Lol catnaps. I do that. Try to limit them to less than 10 mins a time or you feel even worse!
Thanks for the reply. Interesting as I see you tried larger dose levo (that’s what I’m currently trying). Didn’t do it for you in the end. It’s so infuriating! Thanks again.
I tried more Levo but my conversion rate went down, hence the NDT. I do have such high hopes for that 😊 All the best to you too!
Yep think that’s my issue. Will no doubt be popping t3 again next bloods.
Fingers crossed for your NDT 🤞🏻
Thanks 😊
Sympathy, Iv battled 20 yrs so understand
Hi,I feel your pain . I went through exactly that and sill suffering. I am 54 going through the menopause and have no thyroid. Recently, I have started experiencing dry mouth and palpitations. My GP put on my record depressive disorder yet I am not depressed it is due to dealing with these two complex issues. I really do not know what to do. The brain fog is so bad sometimes I sit on my computer for hours without doing any work. The hot flushes keep me awake too. Good luck
Hi, I’m sorry to hear how poorly you feel. I really recommend looking at Louise Newson’ a website. If you are a peri or menopausal woman you almost certainly need some form of HRT. As for the dry mouth, GP should be looking at possible causes but one possibility would be Sjorens syndrome. Are your eyes dry too?
For the palpitations, you should be checked for anaemia and also have them check Ferritin as you can have Iron deficiency without anaemia (this caused me to have palpitations).
Thank you so much for the advice. The most frustrating aspect is you see a different GP each time and you wait for weeks to have an appointment. My eyes are sometimes dry however, that has been an issue for years as I had TED before my thyroid was removed. I am so fed up .
I have had a very dry mouth for a few months and had a lip biopsy for Sjögren’s (negative result) which has left me with a painful twinge every time I move my mouth a certain way. It’s not a walk in the park procedure.
Still trying to figure out what causes it but have formed a fair idea that sugar is part of it, though am not diabetic. If I have a glass of wine then my mouth the next day is like the Gobi.
HelloThat sounds horrible. I’m so sorry to hear that.
I take Seabuckthorne supplements for dry eyes. They really help.
And why do Doctors always diagnose women depressed?
My old doc tried to fob me off as ‘depressed’ before I had my thyroid diagnosis. Why are they so happy for us to take antidepressants but don’t want to support us in being hypothyroid or menopausal? 😡
Good luck
Understand. But pleeeaase don’t be reduced to hearing depressive disorder. Please see another doc who is more informed !
I am going to ask the doctor to remove it from my records
…good luck I hope he doesIv had similar experience and they wouldn’t as it was put on by another doc. ( sorry. Just in case it happens)
So an understanding gp suggested I put a note/letter on the screen explaining it,
I’ve had opportunity to put a new summary of life complaints on which was helpful - it didn’t even appear like me tbh.
Please let me know though if you manage to get it took off
Iv lost a lot of respect along the way esp with my meno yrs and then the Endo team Awful business
You reach point you just have to say what you feel
When my estrogen is low, I have horrible heart palpitations.
As others have said, I have been in same boat. I did this:
1. Checked thyroid levels were ok, mine were but otherwise I’d have adjusted dose as needed then wait a few weeks to stabilise
2. Began HRT (these hormones need topped up the same as thyroid ones - in majority of women this will be a case and there is a lot of evidence that we need to replace oestrogen as we age. Mirena would take care of your progesterone) - see Louise Newson as above
3. Still fatigued/hair loss/joint pain so had iron and ferritin checked - ferritin low so dealing with that
4. Re-check thyroid at some point down the line as HRT can affect levels apparently.
Good luck!
Following with interest as I’m in the exact same situation! started HRT last sept. Still losing hair (lots) and very tired. ferritin just confirmed as low so started on iron and hope that helps Tsh and hormones agree on hormones tweaks. Not been smooth sailing for me on HRT so far x gd luck to you x
You will need to get Ferritin up over around 80 for hair re-growth. I recommend looking at the Iron Clinic website. Even if an infusion is not an option, there is useful info on Ferritin and how to take tablets to optimise absorbtion (basically every second day). theironclinic.com/faq/
Ah that’s so helpful, thank you. I’m at 19, so have a way to go. Trying to be patient :/ x
That is very low -and according to the Prof at the Iron clinic would be a severe deficiency. You'll probably feel a LOT better when you get it up!
Please check out (from previous experience )things that help you to absorb iron betterI remember esp I was very low in a pregnancy and delighted the homeopathic tablet really must have worked as had a great level at birth 🤔 but vit C orange juice listed if have Google. Calcium blocks
Just to ask are you checking T3 or lucky to have doc check it for you as Iv had no luck like many
I checked mine through Medichecks (my GP won't do it) - mine is in range at 4.2 (3.1-6.8) but not high. Consequently I have to take a bit too much Levo to feel well and my TSH is 0.007. I had no luck getting a trial of T3 even from my Endo.
Same. He did offer it if I went to his private clinic ……
My t3 same level as you
Has it increased with levo ?
My t4 has been at very top and t3 the same but endo won’t respond to my questions and my last 2 apptmts have been cancelled so I give up mostly
Why do we take t4 if your own level was quite high before levo is something I want to understand
As they don’t like you going over range
Hi no just to be clear - I've been on Levo for 25 years! Without it my T4 would not be high and if I reduce my dose it drops very quickly.
Are you taking hrt too
Yes, Elleste Duet 2mg. I wasn't having terrible peri-meno symptoms but I feel strongly about the protective effects of maintaining oestrogen as i get older.
Me too I am really letdown for no help for yrs
I'm so sorry, I know how tough it is to get the help you need
Shall we compose a book to put our new found knowledge out there to help newbies
Yee ha. Please do.
Gosh what a lot of us in the same boat and criminal no one in Health profession taking note, specifically for Hypothroidism and menopause. Had my Levo reduced by GP last year from 125 to 100 mcg which sent my body into a spin and I felt awful. At which point had good support for changing my HRT from combine tablet to progesterone tablets and Estrogel. Couldn’t cope with Utrogestan so opted for Mirena which has been amazing - no more rages. Then opted for higher strength estrogen patches (Evorel 75) which has sorted my joint pains. Now on testosterone after a long campaign and feeling good. Had my levo restored to previous level 125 mcg about 5 months later and I’m feeling great. Reduction in levo definitely caused me to have biliary colic attacks with gallstones, but now that my metabolism is back up somewhat I seem to be avoiding more attacks. Just another scientifically proven side effect of untreated hypothyroidism. Hope you get your symptoms sorted - it’s a sloooooooooow process, but keep at it and you’ll get there. 🤩
That't interesting because when I had a reduction (from 150 to 125) and likewise became v unwell, and also had biliary attacks for the first time ever although they couldn't find gallstones - they did think I might have passed one as I had an attack of very acute pain.
Thanks. How do you know how much totesterone needed pls?
I’m on Tostran gel - a pea size amount rubbed in every other day, although I think it could be increased. Just taking it slow for now.
On shoulder?
I wouldn’t know how much although Prof Studd gave it twice weekly
If you get a private test will show if in range
Hi May i ask where your t3 is at
Was prescribed by NHS menopause specialist - she was keen to get Estrogen in range first, so increased from 50 to 75 patches which made a difference to my achey feet in the morning happily. I rub in testosterone just above pubic area - she was worried about hair growth but I’ve had none.My latest T3 is low in range - from memory around 40% through range with T4 around 85% and TSH <1.0, but I feel good. Have been supplementing as recommended on this forum and feeling benefit but hasn’t made a difference to my T3 result. I’m hesitant to try T3 combination with T4 since I’m feeling good and have been fine since I started 23 yrs ago. Could still do with losing some weight which makes me wonder if I should but it would be a gamble.
My testosterone result was in range but I argued that my symptoms ie libido lacking required it!
Interesting. Thanks a lotSo I’m interested in knowing about estrogen range? Does it mean as long as in range?
Being older i know they want me on lowest dose. - Think its all a fear thing in early staged
Yes its all about feeling good. Pleased for you I would be happy with your numbers! I’m TSH 3.8 a few weeks ago I was 5.8! So unsure what to do at this point of time having endo apptmts cancelled again
Does your nhs specialist deal with thyroid side too!
I’m still way too heavy and lost half a pound at slimming world in a month so now trying Keto so far so good and it seems your brain likes it!
Buddy195Administrator
I’ve got a lot from reading posts & tracking symptoms using Louise Newsom’s Balance App for peri menopause/ menopause. The basic app is free & this is one I use.
Really good question
Has anyone else here (not on Mirena) had much heavier periods since approaching or being in peri/ menopause?
Mine are off the scale bad and were already bad. I am having a hysterectomy to do biopsy of any internal parts that might
have provoked this for sinister reasons and a Mirena coil inserted too, but would love to hear from others to see if I am an outlier or no.
My recent-ish symptoms are:
Night sweats
Dry mouth by day
Brain fog
Itching skin
Dry eyes (blepharitis, treated with warm compress 2 x a day and a ban on eye makeup)
Worse circulation
Pains in hands
Bruising more easily
Low ferritin
Reflux
Constipation (which gets worse then eases just before period starts)
Hi, with heavy periods I'm not surprised you have low ferritin as it is one of the common causes in women. I'd make it a priority to take iron tablets (every second day can be better tolerated and will be better absorbed as your body can only absorb a certain amount of iron per day - be aware it can take months) and get that up over 70. Yes it is common to have heavy bleeds as you approach meno - though as your Drs are rightly doing they need to rule out other causes in case it is not just hormonal.
PS I'm on old-school HRT with 2% oestrogen and progesterone, and it is def making my periods lighter and has improved brain fog and sweats (I also had a hysteroscopy to check for anything ominous and it was clear). A lot of your symptoms e.g. bruising, aches and pains could also be the low ferritin which needs addressed.
Am glad your hysteroscopy result was negative. I have a very strong family risk of breast cancer so am one of the types of woman doctors put off from using HRT.
When did you start taking HRT? Did you ask to take it or did doctors recommend it?
Thank you. Unfortunately my body has decided it doesn’t tolerate iron supplements any more so I had to have an iron infusion in the autumn. I managed to get one for free but don’t think I could afford to pay for them, at several hundred pounds each! I am getting the Mirena coil to make the problem go away. And yes - the “B symptoms” of certain types of cancer, for example, also entail low ferritin, night sweats, heavier bleeding, itches and pains. So worth double checking.
Oh my goodness literally just joined this community as been referred to endocrinologist with low T3 and this is the first post I see! I’m 50 and started HRT last year thinking my tiredness and brain fog (as well as the RAGE!) was all down to perimeno because all the usual bloods came back normal. (Other than hugely high B12 and eosinophils but no one seems to be too concerned about those now). Now I’ve found out about the low T3 I’m wondering if my HRT could actually be making the fatigue/thyroid issue worse because I’m just getting tireder and tireder albeit the oestragel has helped even out my mood. I’m seeing the endocrinologist next week so will be interesting to see what he says - wondering if I need to stop the Hrt and get thyroid sorted first. There are so many symptoms in common between thyroid and menopause - too confusing especially when you’re in that fatigued and brain-foggy state. Hope you get things sorted and feel better soon xxx
I've been told that HRT can lead to needing a bit more Levo so it would be worth reviewing your thyroid bloods. Also get checked for anaemia and iron deficiency without anaemia (low Ferritin) - hugely common and under diagnosed. Personally I'd stick with the HRT though it can be a black art getting the right product/dose. Good luck!
I’m really hoping the endocrinologist will take all factors into consideration - not sure he’ll even recommend thyroid meds as it’s only t3 slightly low? But I know I’m not feeling at all right …
Apparently transdermal oestrogen does NOT interfere with your Levo medication. Only tablets as they are Both metabolised through the liver.
Hi just that the hrt seems to affect thyroid med absorption so you could find yourself in loop if you stop hrt and balance thyroid then restart hrt if you decide to? Or maybe you won’t restart. At least you would then know how you feel to move forwardsI think endo will adjust your dose
I am in a similar boat. I feel so much better on NDT, lost weight and have much more engery. But my brain fog is still there (but better) and my mood is not great (just ask my poor husband…). As for libido, I so wish I’d get that back.
Have you tried testosterone? (I haven’t) I think Davina talks about it in her new doc
High B12 can be a sign of something else (non menopausal) going on. Have you researched / discussed with your GP, to your satisfaction?
I think I’m ok with b12 - Because of the white blood cells the gp got in a panic and called me at 9pm saying urgent tests were needed to rule out all sorts of nasty things like lymphoma … so that’s all been done. I think my ferritin and folate are on the low side and now the T3 and I’m really hoping I can do a lot to feel better with diet etc … so hard to unravel perimeno from other issues …
I see. That’s good that your GP responded as thoroughly.
Do you mind telling me what kind of tests they did to rule out lymphoma?
Just looked it up and In addition to fbc etc they did;Anti-nuclear factor
Anti-myeloperoxidase
Anti proteinase 3
Serum tryptase
Kappa/lambda ratio
Serum angiotensin converting hormone
Immunoglobulin G, A and M
This was on advice of haematologist to GP, and all came back normal …
Thank you so much. Am guessing you didn’t have any obvious swollen lymph nodes for them to look at? Quite a few of the menopause symptoms do look similar.
Do they have a view why your B12 so high?
Well I often feel like I have swollen glands in my neck but none anywhere else - thinking this could be a thyroid symptom too. They think b12 might have been supplements but from what I’ve read that would be quite unusual from over the counter supplements?!
My son had quite high B12 last year for no apparent reason. I don’t know how high OTC supplements can make it go but people here do always say to stop taking supplements a few days before a test just in case.
If your GP is good - and it sounds as though they are - they might allow you to have a repeat blood test in a few months’ time, and this time you can stop taking B supplements ahead of time.
I also have been having swelling of glands in my neck. I’ve had a lip biopsy for possible Sjogren’s which was negative. My swollen gland/s have only been around since the dry mouth started so I am going to ask my GP to do the tests you mention / order a lymph node biopsy. Just In Case.
I hope you get sorted and feel better soon. What is sjorgens? No one takes me very seriously when I say my glands are swollen but it’s all the time now and pretty uncomfortable. They’ve tested a few times now since I stopped supplements and the B12 is slowly coming down ….
Sjögren’s is an AI condition. Dry mouth and eyes and lumps in neck are some of its symptoms.Glad test results travelling south.
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