Hello all!
I just received updated labs and everyone says they are perfect.
If my symptoms are still there, how can they be perfect?
New lab work. Says they are perfect- but my bod... - Thyroid UK
New lab work. Says they are perfect- but my body says otherwise.
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ThePINCH
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30 Replies
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Free T4 is 1.0 ( 0.8 - 1.8) 20.00%
Free T3 is 2.7 ( 2.3 - 4.2) 21.05%
TSH 1.09
Your fT4 and fT3 are both still pretty low.
So 'not perfect' .... unless those lower end levels of FT4/3 are what you personally need .
even when we were healthy before taking replacement hormones . we were all pretty different ... if you took 'perfectly healthy ' person 8, 9 , or 10 from the graph below and gave them only 20% fT4 and 20 % fT3 you could expect them to feel rubbish and have some symptoms of hypothyroidism.. even though for person 3 those levels offT4 /3 would feel perfectly ok.
Once we are taking thyroid replacement hormone ,we often end up with TSH lower than 'healthy' people who don't take replacement thyroid hormones (usually because we get relatively higher fT4 from levo,and relatively less T3, than we used to get from our own thyroid).
So TSH of 1 is common for healthy people .. but TSH of 1 for someone on replacement thyroid Hormone , could suggest they are still a bit undermedicated .. and your lowish fT4 /fT3 results seem to confirm that.
You could probably do with a bit more T4/T3.
What dose of what? are you taking currently ?
and how many hours before this blood test was your last dose taken ?
10 (different) healthy people .
Hello Tattybogle,
Thank you for this.
Everyone starting “your perfect” is wild!
Well my weight, no menstrual cycle and contact swollen calf muscles say differently.
As for the meds I’m taking. I’ve been taking a NDT USP 1 grain (7 drops)
Because I can’t seem to find someone to help me with dosing, I’ve been my own test subject. However, not working.
Constant swelling in face, whole body. Feeling heavy always.
I have cynomel and Cynoplus on hand if someone has any knowledge on dosing. Open to anything!
As for testing labs I didn’t take anything prior to testing.
Last dose was in the am the day before.
...because your FreeT3 is too low as is your FT4!
Your labs are in range but this does not make them perfect...or normal!
This poor interpretation is causing ill health for many.
You are aiming for the point within the reference range where you are relieved of symptoms.
T3 is the active thyroid hormone and for good health it must reach the nuclei of almost all cells from the serum via T3 receptors... in a constant and adequate supply.
Your supply is not adequate for you, otherwise you would feel better!
Your FT3 is only 21.05% through the reference range when it should be approaching 75%.
Clearly we are all different but 21.05% is low enough to make most people feel unwell!
FT3 is the most important reading but rarely tested these days
So good that you have results.
Your FT4 should also be approaching 75% ditto
This is how to calculate these %ages.
thyroid.dopiaza.org/?utm_so...
Assuming you are diagnosed as hypothyroid...how much levothyroxine are you prescribed?
If medicated TSH should be 1 or under
No medication.....2 or under.
Medics are trained ( wrongly according to research) to dose by TSH, this can also cause problems.
thyroidpatients.ca/2019/09/...
bmcendocrdisord.biomedcentr...
If not medicated then you need a starter dose of 50mcg levothyroxine (unless young or old! then 25mcg)
Retest after 6/8 weeks once the hormone has settled in your system
Adjust dose as required...you can post new labs for advice.
It is possible that you may feel worse to begin with, don't be put off by this.
There is no quick fix ( think headache/paracetamol) so patience is of the essence
If medicated....dose?
Test after 6/8 weeks on a steady dose
Adjust dose as necessary...again members will advise.
You are being treated by numbers without much, if any, consideration of your symptoms.
The low level of both FT4 and FT3 needs to be recognised and understood by your medics which might take considerable persuasion given that your TSH level sits at 1.09 which on the face of it looks fine.....but not good enough evidence!
Your antibodies are low so no evidence of thyroid autoimmune disease.
You would benefit from having the following nutrients tested, optimum results support thyroid function and T4 to T3 conversion.
Vit B12, vit D, folate and ferritin.
Reverse T3 levels are transient and of little real significance.....others may possibly disagree!
"Everyone" has wrongly interpreted your labs and your body is telling you just that.
Suggest you have a conversation with your medics and ask that they reconsider your treatment.
It might help to make a list of all you wish to say/ ask to support this request.
That used to stop me squawking like a confused parrot at a consultation!!
I'm not a medic so just a few thoughts based on my experience... hope they help.
SlowDragonAdministrator
What thyroid hormones are you currently taking
Was test done early morning, ideally before 9am and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
Are you currently taking any T3
When were vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 last tested
What vitamin supplements are you currently taking
Hi Slow dragon,
No. The appointment was at 1225pm.
I’m taking NDT Tyromax from idealabs. 7 drops.
It’s obviously not working.
I scaled back on all supplements. It was too much on me….
I try to do everything with natural foods etc..
I don’t have any medic I’m working with.
Would love some direct help as what brand, and how to take.
What’s Tyromax’s composition
Umm 1 grain.
It’s just NDT type of thyroid.
But I’ve searched and searched and nowhere, as far as I can find, says how much T4 or T3 is in it. Not even the websites that sell it. Normally websites either give the option to magnify the label or list the ingredients themselves but not with this product
Surely it says on the bottle you have at home
Nothing. Just 7drops for a dose (1 grain).
I found this.
Yes, it should be somewhere around 10mcg T3 and 40mcg T4, a 1:4 ratio.
Perhaps try asking the manufacturer. If it’s NDT they’ll be able to tell you what’s in it. You can then calculate how much to take to raise your thyroid hormone levels
How did you hear about it/find it? There’s no useful info about it that I can find which is at best, strange
in reply to Noelnoel
Tyro-Max is described on Dr. Ray Peat`s forum as a ´liquid dietary supplement of porcine or bovine origin` So, basically a glandular in liquid form, with no verifiable hormone content. ThePINCH , have you been diagnosed with hypothyroidism? Why did you chooseThyro-Max rather than prescription drugs?
Noelnoel in reply to
This is what I found. It says for external use only then contradicts by saying it’s a dietary supplement
After spending the better part of this year searching for reliable sources of high quality thyroid powder, I finally got around to delivering on my promise of releasing a thyroid supplement before the end of 2015. Since thyroid has been debated and discussed so much here and all over the Internet, I don't really have much to say here in terms of benefits, references, testimonials, etc.Finally, due to the fact that the powder contains thyroid tissue that does not quite dissolve, please shake the bottle a few times before using. Sediment or not, the bottle does NOT clog, so you can use the product either way.
Note: This product contains raw material(s) meant for external use only, in cosmetic or other formulations designed for such external use.
*******************************************************************************
TyroMax is a liquid dietary supplement containing natural dessicated thyroid (NDT) of porcine and/or bovine origin. It is USP quality, which means it is certified as suitable for human consumption.
Serving size: 7 drops
Servings per container: about 90
Each serving contains the following ingredients:
Natural dessicated thyroid, USP 1 grain
in reply to Noelnoel
Since it´s sold as a supplement, it cannot have a declared hormone content nor contain standardised amounts of T3 and T4. It may or may not contain trace amounts. So you never know how much hormone (if any) you are getting. I have never heard of thyroid hormone being absorbed through the skin so not sure how it can be beneficial for people with hypothyroidism if used that way...
ThePINCH in reply to
Because I couldn’t find anyone to do labs and properly advise dosage. I simply when on this as a supplement (to be safe) Doctors says “I’m perfect” however I don’t have a cycle and I can’t be perfect. My weight is 20 pounds heavier, bloating, excess water etc.. energy levels. Mood etc. Two days ago I added t3 (cynomel) 25mcg split in two dosages to see what happens.
At this point I’m really at a loss. I’ve messaged many functional practitioners and all say “we’re not taking new clients” so I’m essentially being my own guide.
in reply to ThePINCH
I understand, but have you been diagnosed with hypo, or have you self-diagnosed? Your symptoms could be indicative of hypothyroidism, but could be caused by other things as well (you mentioned estrogen dominance which can cause weight gain, fluid retention and mess with periods). I saw nothing on your profile about being hypothyroid, hence my question. Someone mentioned you previously being on 75 mcg of levo...for how long, and what did you lab results look like back then?
ThePINCH in reply to
These are the latest sex hormones
Sex hormone
in reply to ThePINCH
This doesn´t say if you have hypothyroidism or not.
ThePINCH in reply to
No I know… this is my sex hormones. I already posted the thyroid ones.
in reply to ThePINCH
I mean the thyroid labs from BEFORE you went on TyroMax.
ThePINCH in reply to
Ahhh let me see. I’ll find them.
Thyroid labs
in reply to ThePINCH
Thank you. I have no idea how to intepret the total Ts nor if they have any signficance. Hopefully, others will be able to comment on that. A healthy person has a TSH below 2 and midrange FTs, but some have lower than midrange FTs in health and feel well that way. So it´s just a rough guideline.Your TSH is around 1.5 so nothing alarming about that if you were not taking any thyroid medication. Your free Ts could be said to be a little on the low side (especially if you were symptomatic at the time), but there is nothing in those lab results - TSH, free T4, and free T3 - that would make conventional doctors treat you for hypothyroidism. The fact that your TSH was not higher could be an indication that your free Ts were normal for you.
Has a doctor suggested that you are hypothyroid and that you would need thyroid hormone replacement?
Two days ago I added t3 (cynomel) 25mcg split in two dosages to see what happens.
I sorry, but that is absolutely insane. T3 should be started/increased by a 1/4 tablet every two weeks. And, if you don't even know if you are hypo - so far you haven't said that you know - then you're likely to make yourself pretty ill.
I understand that you can't find anyone to treat you, but to be able to treat yourself you've got to know what you're doing or you'll make yourself worse. And, we can't help you because we haven't got enough information. Can you do some sort of time-line? When you first started taking thyroid hormone replacement, what your labs were, what you were taking and how much? Who ordered those labs above? And, what did that person say about the results?
in reply to ThePINCH
Is there a list of ingredients anywhere? Thyroid glandulars often contain iodine which is not a good idea unless truly deficient. I have only seen this product discussed on Dr. Peat`s forum and there is no info on it that I can find. No info whatsoever on manufacturer’s website either.
Hi ThePINCH 😊
This is my interpretation as to what goes on with the medical profession interpreting tests (NOT!)
GPs are ignorant (in the main). Not stupid (well not all) but definitely ignorant. They are not taught much about thyroid and most are incapable of understanding test results- they just read off the lab sheets like a receptionist would- no added value and then ignore the most valuable diagnostic tool- your symptoms.
My analogy may explain 🤣
Patient ’Ping pong’
It is important to distinguish between ‘normal’ or ‘in range’ and optimal. The term ‘normal’ (note my use of the inverted commas) it is a misused term that you should be wary of. What should be aimed for is OPTIMAL - what’s makes you feel well and that is an individual thing.
Only two little words but they mean very different things. In fact one could say ‘normal’ is meaningless. GPs who don’t know what they are doing generally tell you that you are ‘normal’ if you are in range.
Also, the majority of GPs don’t understand what the range is there for - it’s a guide only!
Sadly most think the range is a ‘cup’ and that the patient is a ‘ping-pong ball’ and if they get the ping-pong ball in the cup they win a prize. 🎉
They simply do not understand that you can be on completely different doses at either end of the range and be hypo (at the lower end) and be optimal and well (at the upper end) OR, heaven forbid, because of other confounding factors you may sit outside of the range before you feel well OR (panic stations) the range might not apply at all! 😱😂
Symptoms should be the most important diagnostic tool, but it sits at the bottom of the list as an annoyance. Nothing annoys a doctor more than having a lovely set of blood results, all ‘normal’ and the damned patient goes and spoils it all by having symptoms! 😂
Ever been told by a GP “Your symptoms should have cleared up by now” or something similar and made to feel the failure for not having responded to their rubbish treatment??
Vitamins need to be higher than just in the bottom of the range SlowDragon and SeasideSuzie have loads of info on this. GPs in the main have no idea on this either - refer back to cup/ping-ping ball scenario.
Get PRINTED results, don’t rely on Patient Access- my Patient Access is patchy and things have been altered/disappeared (yes really). My Patient Access has been more ‘doctored’ than I have 🤣
I have screenshots to prove it. I also have my complete set of tests- get copies of everything keep records 😊👍.
My TSH is suppressed, FT3 and FT4 still in range, but higher in it, I’m 15 stone (🤭oops) and on 150 µg of levothyroxine. I feel great! I was in range at every dose increase and fought to get to full therapeutic dose.
If I had not had knowledge and advice from this forum, I would not be here now.
Well said! Totally agree with you.
Hi ThePinch . got your p.m. , but i think it's better to post on forum, because T3 or NDT is not what i use (i take levo ) so other people will be able to help you better than i can.
It's not clear why you are taking thyroid hormone ?
your TSH/ fT4 /fT3 /TPOab results after not taking anything for 6 months between March - October 2021 didn't really indicate a thyroid problem, except that ft4 is a bit lower than some people :
TSH 1.5 [0.3 -5]
fT4 0.95 [0.71 -1.85] 21%
fT3 2.87 [1.5 -4.4] 47%
TPOab 15.5 [ <34] Negative
When you were put on 75mcg levo alone for 4 weeks about year ago ,you said you felt stable and then when T3 was added (after just 4 weeks) you felt worse ..... so i think if you are going to take thyroid hormone it would make sense to see how you go on 75mcg levo alone for a few months and follow that through with labs done after taking same dose for at least 6 weeks, and then dose adjustments if needed, to see if levo improves how you feel.
Adding T3/NDT too soon can just complicate the picture .. especially if it's not clear why you are taking it .
Hope that's some help .
Thank you.
It’s been a lot of ups and downs…. Low energy. Crazy weight gain. Tons of edema. The list go ons. Excess estrogen.
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