Fluoride in water

[Guineapiggy]

I sent a letter to my MP about the proposal by the government to add fluoride to this country's water to prevent tooth decay and mentioned that it is supposed to affect the thyroid and had the reply below, with no mention of the thyroid.

I would like to send some evidence back to him that it can.

Does anyone have any links that I can send to him please?

Thank you for contacting me about water fluoridation.

While I note your concerns about fluoride in your water supply, fluoridation programmes in our country are common practice, and have been in place for nearly 60 years. I am aware that currently, around 5.8 million people in England already consume fluoridated water. I would like to reassure you that there have been no cases of water fluoridation causing any ill effects.

I understand that a report from Public Health England (now the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities) on improving oral health, published in 2020, found that water fluoridation significantly reduces tooth decay, especially in children. It found that, in deprived areas where water fluoridation occurs, there were 55 per cent fewer hospital admissions for tooth decay among children aged one to four.

This scheme is effective and safe and I am reassured that there is no evidence of health harms from the levels of fluoride used in English schemes, nor the slightly higher levels allowed naturally. Further, the Government is required to monitor the effects of water fluoridation and produce reports on this every four-years, which I hope you find reassuring. The last report was published in 2018 which means that there will be a new report, which is due to be published in 2022.

While this is a government-supported programme, local authorities are responsible for any consultations on fluoridation schemes. You will be encouraged to know that ministers have published a toolkit for local authorities to aid them in carrying out these consultations. However, it is worth noting that the new Health and Care Bill proposes to return responsibility for the fluoridation of water in England from local authorities to central government, making it easier to expand water fluoridation schemes so that more of the population can benefit from it.

I know that some are concerned by previous suggestions of adverse effects from fluoridated drinking water, such as a rare form of bone cancer (osteosarcoma), Down’s syndrome or effects on the kidney. I am, however, reassured that evidence does not support this and that various authoritative expert evaluations from different international organisations all agree that there is no convincing evidence that fluoride in drinking water at levels used in fluoridation schemes or at concentrations below the regulatory drinking water limit is harmful to general health.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Kind regards,

Andrew Griffith MP

[jimh111]

I've seen no reasonble evidence that flouride in water has a significant effect on the thyroid although many years ago we had this warning google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q... .

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

I come from Birmingham originally, flouride was added to water there in the 1960s (possibly 1964) and I think it was the first area to have flouride added. There was a study that showed a much higher prevalence of hypothyroidism in the West Midlands than Greater Manchester (which didn't have flouride added to their water).

I developed non-autoimmune hypothyroidism in my mid-20s (about 1973, although not diagnosed until 1975). A few years later my mother developed non-autoimmune hypothyroidism. Some years later my sister-in-law developed non-autoimmune hypothyroidism. We all lived within a few miles of each other in Birmingham.

The BJM has an article which refers to the Peckham study about this:

jech.bmj.com/content/69/7/619

Findings

We found that higher levels of fluoride in drinking water provide a useful contribution for predicting prevalence of hypothyroidism. We found that practices located in the West Midlands (a wholly fluoridated area) are nearly twice as likely to report high hypothyroidism prevalence in comparison to Greater Manchester (non-fluoridated area).

I dare say that further searching may bring up more information, whether or not it will be accepted I don't know I'm afraid.

[Scazzoh in reply to SeasideSusie]

I recently found out from my dentist that fluoride is released into the mouth when glass ionomer fillings, which are the temporary ones are used, to prevent tooth decay. When I think how near my teeth are to my nearly non-existent thyroid gland is makes me wince.

There is a big move to put fluoride into drinking water at the moment. Here is a submission against the proposal in the Health and Care Bill (2021)

publications.parliament.uk/...

[jimh111]

Taking a more serious approach I vaguely remember a paper that found some link between fluorine and hypothyroidism in experimental animals with exceptionally low iodine levels. Whilst fluorine is in the same column of the atomic table there's no reason why it should interfere with iodine chemistry any more than other halides. Bromine, in the form of molecules that mimic T3 does have effects on thyroid hormone action, as does chlorine for example in polychlorinated biphenyls.

Much of the 'research' into fluoride and thyroid disease much of it is conducted by people who have a strong antagonism to fluoridation and little interest in pure science. This critique gives an example of the sort of errors these 'studies' contain nature.com/articles/sj.bdj.... . I've seen another similar review but can't find it.

I feel it is more important to tackle real issues, campaigning with dodgy science is wasted effort, undermines credibility in thyroid patients and diverts attention away from our real problems.

[helvella]

I feel it is important to highlight that fluoridation is a devolved matter - so each of the four nations has different policies. It also means that Westminster MPs are not the people to contact other than in England!

[helvella]

A fairly recent paper (2018) appears relevant - and comes to the conclusion that there is an issue which is emerging and alarming.

Of course, two people can read the same words and come to different conclusions.

I have specifically heard dentists (more than one) on the radio, who were generally in favour of fluoridation, nonetheless admitting there are some cases of dental fluorosis. My concern at hearing that wasn't the cosmetic effect. It was that teeth are the only part of our boney, mineralised tissue which is visible. Is there any skeletal fluorosis which is not being seen?

A systematic analysis on possibility of water fluoridation causing hypothyroidism

Nallan C S K Chaitanya1, P Karunakar2, Neeharika Satya Jyothi Allam1, M Hima Priya1, B Alekhya1, Shaguftha Nauseen1

1 Department of Oral Medicine and Radiology, Principal, Panineeya Institute of Dental Sciences, Hyderabad, Telangana, India

2 Department of Conservative Dentistry and Endodontics, Panineeya Institute of Dental Sciences, Hyderabad, Telangana, India

Date of Web Publication

13-Jun-2018

Abstract

Background: Community water fluoridation is widely used worldwide and its role in preventive dental health care is well established. However, there is sufficient evidence of the ill effects of excessive fluoride content in water, causing skeletal and dental fluorosis. Alongside, there was also extraskeletal and dental manifestations of excessive fluorides reported. They include the effect on thyroid function, but the literature regarding this is sparse. Aim: The present systematic review aims to analyze the data from controlled studies about the effect of fluoride on thyroid function. Materials and Methods: A systematic literature search was performed using PUBMED, MEDLINE, EMBASE, COCHRANE Library, EBSCO search, and the internet search, with language restriction to English. The search included published studies which dealt with the association of fluorine with hypothyroidism, from January 1981 to November 2015. Literature search was done using keywords: fluoride and hypothyroidism, dental fluorosis and thyroid disorders, systemic fluorosis and thyroid disease, excessive water fluoridation and hypothyroidism, thyroid and fluoride, fluorosis and its adverse effects. Results: Out of 166 publications, related to search strategy, 37 full articles which were related with the association of fluoride and hypothyroidism were acquired for further inspection. Out of the 37 articles, 10 articles met the inclusion criteria. The data were extracted and placed in an excel sheet and were analyzed. The analysis suggested a positive correlation of excess fluoride and hypothyroidism. Conclusion: The present systematic review suggests a positive correlation between excess fluoride and hypothyroidism. This calls the need for further well-controlled studies in this otherwise emerging alarming issue. It also calls for considerable community network through health informatics for problem sensitization.

Full paper freely accessible here:

ijdr.in/article.asp?issn=09...

[Guineapiggy in reply to helvella]

Thanks. This link and the one from SeasideSusie are worth sending back to my MP.

[Guineapiggy]

Thank you everyone for your replies. My MP represents Arundel constituency, West Sussex. Personally, I don't want more chemicals added to my drinking water but as there does not seem to be enough evidence to demonstrate a connection between hypothyroidism and fluoride in water I probably haven't got enough info to send to my MP to be looked into. Hopefully, the threat may inspire some people to undertake a new trial to evaluate the effect of fluoride on the thyroid.

[Mlinde in reply to Guineapiggy]

Yes, it's amazing! Symptom become the cause and the cause becomes the symptom! Diet leads to tooth decay so don't alter the diet try and alter the symptom! Aparently fluoride is a by-product of some industrial process or other, so what better way to rid of it than by selling it to the water corporations!

[PeterpPiper]

Get a filter

[Guineapiggy in reply to PeterpPiper]

I have a carbon filter but apparently they are no good for fluoride. Only having a reverse osmosis filter is supposed to work.

[PeterpPiper in reply to Guineapiggy]

Just read up about it and you are correct - Brita etc don’t remove it . I just got my thyroid within range with meds so I better leave my fluoride cobsumption as is otherwise May go hyper — you live and learn - damm fluoride

[PeterpPiper in reply to PeterpPiper]

And what about all that toothpaste !!!

[Guineapiggy in reply to PeterpPiper]

I stopped using toothpaste with fluoride years ago.

[Thyroidconfusion in reply to Guineapiggy]

I stopped using fluoride toothpaste years ago and have no decay or plaque. Why are we even considering fluoride to prevent tooth decay when some some good dietary advice to cut down consumption of sugar, processed carbohydrates and processed oils and eat a proper healthy diet would be far more effective.

[Mlinde in reply to Guineapiggy]

Ditto! It's the same with vegetables and fruit, I try, wherever possible to buy organic (the price difference is really quite small really) once I realized that industrial agriculture has reduced vital minerals and vitimins in produce by as much as 60%!!! Welcome to the world corporate greed!

[helvella in reply to PeterpPiper]

Toothpaste is an issue.

It is important to add the amount we get from toothpaste to the amount we would get from our drinking water.

If there is enough in our water to be effective, I suspect we should stop using fluoridated toothpaste.

In which case, imagine England became totally fluoridated and Scotland didn't. We should then see non-fluoridated toothpaste being usual in England - even the makes which have been emblazoning their products and advertising for years with the fluoride message.

[Mlinde in reply to helvella]

And charge 3-4 times as much for it!!!

[Margo in reply to PeterpPiper]

A filter won't remove fluoride. Better not have the fluoride in the first place.

[helvella]

You might find this interesting:

Slightly Elevated Serum Ionic Fluoride Levels Inhibit Insulin Secretion and Increase Glucose Levels in a General Japanese Population: a Cross-sectional Study

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/330...

I suspect the MP will dismiss this as it refers to higher fluoride intakes, and (of course) that will never be the case in a properly managed fluoridation system. Will it?

[Guineapiggy in reply to helvella]

Thanks. I also found another submission to the Health and Care Bill.

publications.parliament.uk/...

[helvella in reply to Guineapiggy]

Just quickly read that - I generally agree.

[limonene7]

This makes me so mad! Why poison the water with chemicals that no one can conclusively prove does not cause adverse affects? Why can’t the government just put out infomercials and ‘educate’ parents and children what really causes tooth decay? I think a lot of people think it’s just sugar that causes decay but the government need to make it clear to people that all carbohydrates can leave sugars on teeth and lead to decay. They need to tell people they need to clean their teeth after eating bread or pasta or potato etc and that children must not go to bed after drinking milk without cleaning their teeth as it will cause decay! I also think they should encourage xylitol chewing gum as a way of helping to protect the teeth in circumstances when cleaning the teeth isn’t possible cause it really helps! Thank you and well done to you Guineapiggy for trying to make a difference about this!🙂

[Guineapiggy in reply to limonene7]

I fully agree. It makes you think that the government is trying to take an easy option rather than put more effort into education. They only focus on teeth and not about trying to find out if there are side effects on other parts of the body.

[Mlinde in reply to Guineapiggy]

Not only the easy way out for govt, it helps their corporate pals make more money.

[Valeriu]

I have sent tooo I can't find my letter to MP yet where I enclosed a link on how Fluoride is bad ...They found it was bad for the health in Canada and US ....Found it : pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/127...

[Mlinde]

I signed a govt petition on this proposal awhile back, I'll try and find it

[limonene7]

And they want to add fluoride to this mess!...bbc.co.uk/news/science-envi...