Daughter with possible thyroid issues

[jcarlton76]

Hello all. My 12 yr old suffers from anxiety and fatigue and various aches. The drs think its from anxiety and depression but i dont want to over look possible medical issue. I mean she turns pale and gets dark circles under her eyes and she gets shaky when that happens. I asked her primary to check her thyroid levels cuz hypo runs rampant in my family. In sept her tsh was 2.45. This week her tsh is 3.19. Its "within normal ranges" and im not suggestion she needs meds but is there anything anyone would recommend to help support her thyroid or is that just normal numbers for a kid? Idk i just want her to suffer for years like i have, being put off and discounted by drs. Shes 12, she should be energetic and healthy!

[jcarlton76]

I mean i just DONT want her to suffer lol

[shaws Administrator in reply to jcarlton76]

I realise that so don't worry or get anxious. Her TSH is rising and this is the method to use to get the best results.

Always get the earliest blood draw even if you have to make it weeks ahead. Make sure she's well hydrated a couple of days before and her arms/hands are warm. TSH is highest early a.m. an drops throughout the day.

It is a fasting test but she can drink water.

Request doctor to check TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) and Free T4 and Free T3, also B12, Vit D, iron, ferritin and folate.

Get a print-out of the results from the surgery and post on a new question.

In the UK we have to wait until TSH is 10 before we are considered as hypothyroid.

[jcarlton76 in reply to shaws]

Oh wow! With our drs the cut off is 4.5. Thank you, you are always so helpful

[Charlie-Farley in reply to jcarlton76]

I was diagnosed with a

TSH of 5.1 mU/L (range 0.57-3.6 mU/L).

FT4 8.4 pmol/L (7.9 -14.0 pmol/L)

Some surgeries are recognising 10

is not the magic number. Sadly my GP thought she was ‘topping me up’ and grossly under medicated me on a starter dose for a child (Or a person over 60 with a heart condition) for 6 months. As you will know once you start being treated they need to get you on a full replacement dose unfortunately many doctors do not really realise this. You can read my profile for how I managed to get onto a full replacement dose whilst being in range at every juncture but still having symptoms.

If they won’t play ball you might have to do what the rest of us do and go and get a private blood test.

Personally I think it’s the quickest way to work out what the heck is going on and get well. NHS thyroid test is ‘bald’ and about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

[Hidden in reply to Charlie-Farley]

No matter how many times I read posts like yours, it never ceases to amaze me how much damage well-meaning but ignorant doctors cause their patients! We have to be our own doctors in order to get proper treatment and get well. So much suffering is caused by this ignorance, so many years lost for patients, and this is also society´s loss as many end up on full-time or part-time invalidity.

[Charlie-Farley in reply to Hidden]

I know PurpleCat71

Yet I consider myself a lucky one! I’m well now and was able to fight my corner. Turned it around in a year because of this forum and the knowledge imparted. I have literally cried to read the experiences of some of the members.

I will keep reading to deepen my understanding and hopefully one day be able to actively influence the medical profession. There are already a few with fleas in their ears at our local surgery! 😂👍

[Michoue25 in reply to Hidden]

Hi there, i completely feel you. One day went to hospital not feeling well after a bad cold, with palpitations and shortness of breath. They run a thyroid test, my t4 was 24.8 and t3 7.9 both slighty above normal range and my tsh of 0.02 which i believe was a process being manage by my body to bring the hormones level down. They prescribed me with 15mg of Carbimazole with no other blood test done which should have been done like antibodies, vitamin D and so on. I started the medication and was told that a letter would be sent to my Gp to reassess me in 6 weeks with a specialist and also regular blood test. After 4 and a half weeks i did my blood test my t4 fell to 22 and t3 6.7. Was still waiting for specialist apppointment while taking the 15mg after 5 weeks i started not feeling well with the medication. I decided to book an appointment with the doctor to check where was my specialist appointment yet and also talk about me not feeling well. I also decided to decrease the dose to 10mg which made me feel better. I got hold of my Gp and explained what happemed she told me she cant help me that much as this is a specialist field but if 10mg makes me feel better just keep on it. 10 weeks on still no specislist appontment and started feeling unwell with the 10mg now. My second month blood test shows tsh 2.05 and t4 15 as well as t3 5. Gp still cant tell me what to do bearing in mind everything got in balance. Gp booked an ultrasound for me and told me that all she could do. I manage to get an appointment with Endocrinology at hospital after phoning them myself and a kind lady made the booking for me. Finally went to my appointment after twelve weeks. Got to the endocrinologist and she was stupefied that no antibodies blood test been done, vitamin d etc.... she told me that before she can do anything i have to do these test first before anything else. The test came 2 days later my t3 was 4.1 and t4 10.5 and tsh 4.85. She advised me to reduce to 5mg which i already had done a week before that appointment as was not feeling well with the 10mg. She believed that my thyroid was pretty much of an inflammation. Now on 5 mg and a week ago, not feeling well with chest pain and constipation went to a&e and they told me that they could not do the thyroid blood test as this is more of an nsh treatment than an emergency respond and that i have to contact my GP. Very very disappointed the way this had been dealt as if they dont care about people health. If i could afford private sure i would have gone there already. They put me on a big dose of Carbimazole with no proper in time follow-up without knowing really the cause of my overactive thyroid.

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to jcarlton76]

You may not realise that you can edit, or delete, any posts or responses you have made here.

HealthUnlocked have produced some help for how to do this. You can find this here:

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When you edit the original post in a thread, you will also have the option to add (or remove) a single image. (To replace an image, remove the existing image, then add the new one.) This is the same process as writing a new post:

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I am pointing this out purely to ensure that you know your options.

(If you make extensive changes, it is sometimes helpful to add a comment so that people can see that you have made changes.)

Please do not feel the need to respond to this.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Get GP to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 plus thyroid antibodies and coeliac blood test too

What’s her diet like?

[jcarlton76]

She eats lots of fruits and veggies but she also eats some fatty foods. I am trying to get her to eat more clean but I am afraid i fail sometimes because i get too exhausted to cook due to my medical issues. So her dad gets fast food. Im working on that.

[greygoose in reply to jcarlton76]

There's nothing wrong with eating fatty foods if it's good fat. The body needs fat, and low-fat/fat-free diets are dangerous. Good fats are: animal fats - butter, lard, etc. - nut oils - walnut, coconut, etc. - olive oil, avocado oil. Bad fats are the highly processed seed oils, like rapeseed.

Her TSH appears to be rising, but I have no idea of the correct ranges for a 12 year-old. But, her thyroid would appear to be struggling, and that could affect her absorption of nutrients. So, it would still be a good idea to get them tested, even if she eats a perfect diet. You are not what you eat, you are what you absorb.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to greygoose]

OMG, for the last forty years I have deliberately been buying rapeseed oil because I understood it was the most pure and safest for my then husband who had multiple allergies. These days it can be expensive, too. I don't like to use olive oil for everything - is Mazola ok?

[greygoose in reply to MaggieSylvie]

No. Mazola is corn oil, corn is a seed, so highly processed to get any oil out of it.

[MaggieSylvie in reply to greygoose]

Thanks, Greygoose. I guess I'll have to look for affordable nut oils or avocado for optimal health, and try harder to persuade my partner to use less of it.

[Catseyes235 in reply to MaggieSylvie]

I find rapeseed is one of the cheapest around. The others you mention are much more expensive. Sometimes rapeseed is just called vegetable oil ..label will probably say 100% rapeseed. Look for the yellow rapeseed flowers. Maybe with multiple allergies nut oil should be avoided?

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Catseyes235]

Sometimes it's quite expensive, and I believe when it's just called vegetable oil, it will be corn oil or a blend possibly. And yes - I look for the yellow rapeseed flowers. However, Greygoose advised not to use any seed oils, including those two. Yesterday I did some research and found rapeseed oil that has been cold-pressed, which would mean, hopefully, it won't have gone through the heat processing that the cheaper bottles would have done. There are several brands available online but I doubt they are available in the supermarkets, although some may be found at health food stores - at a cost.

[Catseyes235 in reply to MaggieSylvie]

I get cold pressed in Sainsbury’s. No ...vegetable oil is rapeseed oil. Just doesn’t sell so well with the name. I wouldn’t condemn all seed oils without good evidence. We’re all different and so are they! You can check supermarket websites for types and prices of oil. Rice bran oil is also recommended...also in Sainsbury’s . My main oil is cheaper olive oil which has sunflower. Organic rapeseed is good. Enjoy your oil research! I get Mellow Yellow from Sainsbury’s when on offer! So keep an eye on whatever your local Supermarket is.

PS my daughter developed Hyperthyroid at 15. I knew the symptoms but had to push for test. Sorry your daughter is suffering and hope you and she find help with whatever the problem is. As within normal range and not constant her symptoms could be growth spurts, not sleeping, problems at school. What does she say, think?

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Catseyes235]

Sainsbury's has loads when you look online. I hadn't thought of rice bran oil. That should be harmless enough. I'm not condemning anything. Just following the advice of Greygoose. Always thought rapeseed oil was the best and certainly my go-to oil, with extra virgin olive oil for dressings.

[Catseyes235 in reply to MaggieSylvie]

Sorry I edited post and added more. Sometimes this site gives information overload!

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Catseyes235]

Unfortunately, I haven't got a daughter and my GP wrongly diagnosed me with hypothyroidism. I really only follow this forum out of curiosity, as only time will tell whether I have hyper or a pituitary problem (or nothing). My main concern has been blood cancer and spinal compression fractures, along with fibromyalgia but most of the posts I receive these days are about thyroid issues and mental health - which most of us can relate to.

[Catseyes235 in reply to MaggieSylvie]

Sorry that’s the problem of responding to someone on a different tack in a new stream when keeping the original post in mind!!

[MaggieSylvie in reply to Catseyes235]

I know - it's so easy to get people mixed up!

[PurpleNails Administrator]

A TSH of 10 is considered overt hypothyroidism. Treatment should be offered even if FT4 & FT3 were in range as it shows the thyroid is struggling.

2 over-range TSH or if FT4 / FT3 below range should also prompt treatment. Especially if thyroid antibodies are positive. Which should also be tested if levels are abnormal.

See if dr will test folate, ferritin, B12 & vitamin D. May refuse antibodies if thyroid levels within range and GPs rarely test vitamin D, but no harm in asking.

I also have a daughter same age & last month her TSH was similar (2.47).

Annoyingly her notes just say borderline (some of the other tests) patient informed - although we were contacted. This is something they do repeatedly.

It so hard to know what’s to do when Dr says every ok, but I’ll keep going back!

You sound as if you are doing better than me with diet. Mine leaves most of the veggies / fruit I put in her plate/lunch box.

[humanbean]

[My emphasis]

I mean she turns pale and gets dark circles under her eyes and she gets shaky when that happens.

Getting shaky can be caused by a cortisol problem, with cortisol being either too high or too low for good health. Cortisol is produced by the adrenal glands on top of the kidneys.

People with adrenal problems often refer to feelings of "internal vibration" rather than shakiness because the shakes often can't be seen.

Low and high cortisol can have similar symptoms so guessing which one applies (if either) is not a good idea. Instead it should be tested.

Doctors should usually test cortisol early in the day - about 8am is a good time. This is because cortisol has a circadian rhythm. Testing at 8am gives you a result for cortisol at its peak level. As the day goes on cortisol levels decrease and reach a minimum at about midnight - 2am. Then it starts shooting up at about 3am - 4am and reaches a peak again at about 8am.

There are other ways of testing cortisol, and for patients the most informative way it is to do a 4-part saliva test - but be warned that doctors pay no attention to them. Also, please don't mention adrenal fatigue to a doctor - they refuse to believe in it - either cortisol levels are below range or above range or they are fine. For patients though, adrenal fatigue is a state where cortisol levels are still in range but aren't at optimal levels, and adrenal fatigue can be fixed with the right self-help.

The blood test for cortisol and the 4-part saliva tests aren't measuring the same thing. The saliva test measures cortisol at four points throughout the day and will tell you, for example, whether early morning cortisol looks great but night time cortisol is far too high. It gives you idea on how cortisol is working throughout the day.

There is a strong relationship between cortisol output and thyroid hormone levels.

Some links on the subject of cortisol / thyroid / adrenals:

sarahwilsonnd.com/wp-conten...

hypothyroidmom.com/cortisol...

paulrobinsonthyroid.com/hig...

tpauk.com/main/article/test...

[HashiFedUp]

I would request T3 and T4 and thyroid antibodies. TSH alone won’t tell you what’s happening. Pay for them if needs be. Were does her anxiety stem from?

[jcarlton76 in reply to HashiFedUp]

Her anxiety stems from some bad experiences. In 2019 she had Guillian Barrett and was hospitalized for a month. It was very traumatic, took 3 months to walk again properly. Didnt help that covid hit a yr later. But i just dont believe that all her problems are anxiety.

[marinria in reply to jcarlton76]

I'm sorry your daughter is going through all this. There are scientific papers showing that Guillian Barrett is correlated with thyroid hormone levels compatible with thyroiditis. So are unstable TSH values. In my experience lab values may be very variable in thyroiditis so I encourage you to look into this further. I hope you get the right diagnosis and treatment for her soon!

[greeneyes31]

Why do Drs use this anxiety tag for everything with children? I have personal experience of this happening with my daughter since she was 14. This week, at the age of 29, she has finally been diagnosed with joint hypermobility syndrome and psoriatic arthritis. This only happened because of the severe reaction she had to the Pfizer jabs which have left her almost bed ridden with pain and dizziness since last July. She was not attention seeking or lying about her pain and I'm sure your daughter isn't either. I hope it doesn't take as long for your daughter to be properly diagnosed and this fabulous site will definitely help you as much as they can. Wishing you and her all the best.

[Charlie-Farley in reply to greeneyes31]

They diagnose anything they cannot explain as anxiety. I was diagnosed as anxiety/depressive disorder literally the month before I was diagnosed as hypothyroid. It still sits there on my records only qualified by the following months hypo diagnosis. It would be nice if an addendum had be placed on record - anxiety/ depressive disorder most likely owing to undiagnosed hypothyroidism. 🙄

[Triciatextiles]

Hi

My daughter was 14 when she begun to get really poorly she was also shaky. Diagnosed with hypothyroidism shortly afterwards. TSH doesn’t have to be 10 to get diagnosed, mine Gp surgery is 4.2. Also due to your daughters age she should be measured on the paediatric range not the adult range so bear this in mind when you get the results and insist the GP does this. I hope she feels better soon.

[hjbradshaw]

Has she been reared for Vitamin B12 deficiency as many of the symptoms are similar ?

[jcarlton76 in reply to hjbradshaw]

No. I will definitely look in to that. Thank you